Income and Insight

[Foxfyre]

Huh? Pell grants are specifically aimed at lower-income students. For example (guidetocareereducation.com/financial-aid/career-education-through-grants):

During the 2005-2006 year, 57% of Pell grant recipients had family incomes of less than $20,000.​

And the large increases in Pell Grants are coming because the health care reconciliation bill ends FFELP, saving billions.

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that most applicants in that category though are emancipated students with part time jobs or otherwise low income. I know my two kids both asked to be emancipated after Age 18 because they could qualify for so much more in student aid that way. As head of household, they become a family of one.

Other than financial and some other considerations, those eligible for Pell grants include:

3) The student must also be a United States Citizen, permanent resident or other eligible classification of non-citizen. To qualify as an eligible non-citizen, a student must be able to live and attend school legally. They must also be one of the follow.

· U.S. Permanent Citizen (has Alien Registration Card or I-551)

· Conditional Permanent Citizen (has I-551C Card);

· Refugee

· Asylum grantee

· Parolee

· Cuban-Haitian entrant with an Arrival Departure Record (I-94) from the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).
Pell Grant Requirements

 

[Greenbeard]

I know my two kids both asked to be emancipated after Age 18...

I'm not familiar with the process but I was under the impression that emancipation applies to minors. So, I'm curious, how did you emancipate your kids after they turned 18?

 

[syrenn]

So, does that mean that folks get smarter as they become more wealthy, or that they become more wealthy because they become smarter?

Lefties, take note.

Actually I think it is more simpler then that. The have not's become the "haves" and do not want to let go of or have taken anything taken away from them. Smart has noting to do with it. It is keeping what you have that is the motivation.

 

[Foxfyre]

I know my two kids both asked to be emancipated after Age 18...

I'm not familiar with the process but I was under the impression that emancipation applies to minors. So, I'm curious, how did you emancipate your kids after they turned 18?

You don't claim them as dependents on your income tax. You drop them from your family insurance, etc. That way they qualify as head of household and their income is considered and ours isn't.

 

[MaggieMae]

Less than half of middle class Americans now believe that President Barack Obama is doing a good job, according to a new Gallup Poll.

Among those earning from $24,000 to $59,988 a year, just 46 percent say they approve of the job Obama is doing, down from 51 percent in May and 66 percent in the week of his inauguration.

Among Americans earning $60,000 to $89,988 a year, 44 percent approve of his job performance, down from 51 percent in May and 69 percent during inauguration week.

The only income bracket in which a majority still approves of Obama’s job performance is those earning less than $24,000 a year — and only 52 percent of them approve.

Overall, 46 percent of Americans told Gallup they approve of Obama’s job performance during the week of June 7-13, tying for the worst week of his presidency.

CNSNews.com - Middle Class Is Abandoning Obama: He Gets Majority Approval Rating Only From Americans Making Less Than $24,000 Per Year

So? What president hasn't seen a decline once he got in power? Reality bites.

Frankly, with all the negativity I see everywhere I look, I'm surprised the ODS hasn't become pandemic and his approval ratings even lower.

Obama: Job Ratings
Obama: Favorability

Maggie, you have made a point, but have sidestepped what is clearly the most interesting aspect of the OP.

Why is it only the lowest income group that still supports the President?

Is there a relationship between income and insight?

Who are the members of this group?

Do you think there is a relationship between income and education, and, if so, how is education related to the polls?


Care to play?

Your first question is a rather sneaky way to force me to say that it's a given that the black population still remain his highest supporters. So now I'll be accused of playing the race card, or a racist, correct?

I also don't think you can combine income and education as one demographic. There are plenty of highly educated people who continue to support Obama because they understand completely that severe government action was necessary at the start of the economic crisis. The private sector at the turn of 2009 had no money and had no credit. America had lost over $10 trillion of its wealth!!

A lot of people who consider themselves liberals are unhappy that Obama has not done ENOUGH for them (as promised during the campaign), and then there are those working middle-class white folks in rural areas who were skeptical of his presidency in the first place. (Remember the guns and church talking point that swayed so many.)

"Rich" people who are upset with Obama's stimulus and health plan, and who are scared they might have to pay a few bucks extra in taxes generally fall into the category of I've-got-mine-so-fuck-you, in my opinion.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama's rhetoric concerning the rich and corporations plays right into the lower income brackets thinking process....let's face it...the lower income bracketted individuals are basically high school drop out uneducated types who don't have shit...and have to rely on government assisstance. They rely on the internet, Olberman, Maddow and the DailyKOS for their news and political content. Welfare, foodstamps and the thought of free healthcare on the backs of the rich keeps them in control. Sorry if that's a little blunt to anyone.

While it may be blunt, the picture is a bit more nuanced in that the same folks who support the President now, the lowest income group...they become the middle class shortly.
So, contrary to the prevalent 'victim cult' here, on the board, there must be some sort of learning curve that makes folks more realistic as they become more wealthy.


"More than three-quarters of those working Americans whose incomes were in the bottom 20 percent in 1975 were also in the top 40 percent of income earners at some point by 1991, says Sowell."
Source: Thomas Sowell, "How Media Misuse Income Data To Match Their Preconceptions," Investor's Business Daily, January 12, 2010.
For text:
How Media Misuse Income Data To Match Their Preconceptions - IBD - Investors.com


So, does that mean that folks get smarter as they become more wealthy, or that they become more wealthy because they become smarter?

Lefties, take note.

I think either might apply. But you can't use 1991 figures to make THAT point. Every indicator told the same story in the first decade of the 21st Century, and that was that a typical family works many more hours a year than 30 years ago, because it takes two incomes at wages that had remained stagnant since, you guessed it, 1991, in order to make ends meet. Are you going to make me pull up all the statistics which prove that?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Obama's demonizing of The Rich and calls for increasing taxes on them plays well with those at the lowest income levels.

And the lowest IQ levels.

 

[Bern80]

Gee, I wonder why this portion got surgically excised from the OP?

And among those earning $7,500 or more per month ($90,000 per year or more), the highest income bracket recorded by Gallup, 47 percent said they approved of the job Obama is doing

So I guess while President Obama is doing best among the poorest,

he's doing second best among the richest.

oops to all you clowns who didn't bother to actually READ the article, or the data, before you chimed in with your class warfare rants.

lol

PS...note to dishonest OP'er. When you quote a portion of an article and intentionally leave some text out, you're supposed to throw in a DOT DOT DOT.

There was nothing dishonest about the OP.

Did you find it tragic that you had to read the entire article? Poor baby...

The lead sentence was "Less than half of middle class Americans now believe that President Barack Obama is doing a good job, according to a new Gallup Poll." and the OP contained proof of same.


You seem a bit petulant...could it be due to the numbers and how they reflect on your choices?

Grow up. Wise up.

I find it hilarious that I only had to read the article to find out you intentionally misrepresented the numbers in order to propagandize them. You managed to make fools of a couple of your rightwing nut buddies too, which is even hilarious-er.

There's nothing misrepresented. You're grasping at straws because it's all you have left. So she left that category out. Citing a 47% approval rating as a smoking gun doesn't really help you. Last I checked that was also still less than half.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama's rhetoric concerning the rich and corporations plays right into the lower income brackets thinking process....let's face it...the lower income bracketted individuals are basically high school drop out uneducated types who don't have shit...and have to rely on government assisstance. They rely on the internet, Olberman, Maddow and the DailyKOS for their news and political content. Welfare, foodstamps and the thought of free healthcare on the backs of the rich keeps them in control. Sorry if that's a little blunt to anyone.

While it may be blunt, the picture is a bit more nuanced in that the same folks who support the President now, the lowest income group...they become the middle class shortly.
So, contrary to the prevalent 'victim cult' here, on the board, there must be some sort of learning curve that makes folks more realistic as they become more wealthy.


"More than three-quarters of those working Americans whose incomes were in the bottom 20 percent in 1975 were also in the top 40 percent of income earners at some point by 1991, says Sowell."
Source: Thomas Sowell, "How Media Misuse Income Data To Match Their Preconceptions," Investor's Business Daily, January 12, 2010.
For text:
How Media Misuse Income Data To Match Their Preconceptions - IBD - Investors.com


So, does that mean that folks get smarter as they become more wealthy, or that they become more wealthy because they become smarter?

Lefties, take note.

Excellent questions indeed....I would tend to think that as you get upset over your condition and get sick of being broke all the time you DO in fact motivate yourself to find a solution to your predicament....usually that's through education, determination and elbow grease. Anyone who chooses hard work will achieve success.

But of course no consideration is given at all to the fact that when a person (say a dedicated husband and father) works long hours or even two jobs to make ends meet, he has precious little time to further his education or even attend a free training class for a different vocation. Nope, anyone low income must be a slacker, end of story.

 

[rightwinger]

Obama's demonizing of The Rich and calls for increasing taxes on them plays well with those at the lowest income levels.

And the lowest IQ levels.

You should be able to attest to that one

 

[Foxfyre]

On the other hand those who have the insight to stay in school, educate themselves, put in their time in McJobs to develop a work ethic, references, and skill sets, prepare themselves for a marketable trade, and stay pretty much away from illegal substances and activities BEFORE they start a family are pretty unlikely to be in that low income group. Or they are unlikely to be there for long.

Insight also suggests that those who don't do that are likely to vote for and/or support politicians who will reward them for lack of foresight and/or for being irresponsible.

 

[MaggieMae]

Pell Grants aren't generally taken by working/welfare class people.
And with the gov't takeoever of the student loan market I doubt he's made many friends there.

What friends would those be? The private banks who were ripping them off with high interest rates on student loans? Whether you acknowledge it or not, EDUCATION is the key to this country's future. The OA has made it easier for students to receive financial aid, which is as it should be.

Financial Aid - ED.gov

 

[topspin]

I'm going on a limb and saying politicalchic is not in the top income group. LOFL

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama's demonizing of The Rich and calls for increasing taxes on them plays well with those at the lowest income levels.

And the lowest IQ levels.

So what's your excuse for being a moron?

 

[MaggieMae]

There was nothing dishonest about the OP.

Did you find it tragic that you had to read the entire article? Poor baby...

The lead sentence was "Less than half of middle class Americans now believe that President Barack Obama is doing a good job, according to a new Gallup Poll." and the OP contained proof of same.


You seem a bit petulant...could it be due to the numbers and how they reflect on your choices?

Grow up. Wise up.

I find it hilarious that I only had to read the article to find out you intentionally misrepresented the numbers in order to propagandize them. You managed to make fools of a couple of your rightwing nut buddies too, which is even hilarious-er.

There's nothing misrepresented. You're grasping at straws because it's all you have left. So she left that category out. Citing a 47% approval rating as a smoking gun doesn't really help you. Last I checked that was also still less than half.

And well within the "normal" range for every president going back decades at this point in his presidency.

 

[topspin]

let's see 1 republican who outpolls Obama in head to head. No long list just show me 1.

 

[antagon]

Huh? Pell grants are specifically aimed at lower-income students. For example (guidetocareereducation.com/financial-aid/career-education-through-grants):

During the 2005-2006 year, 57% of Pell grant recipients had family incomes of less than $20,000.​

And the large increases in Pell Grants are coming because the health care reconciliation bill ends FFELP, saving billions.

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that most applicants in that category though are emancipated students with part time jobs or otherwise low income.

Just under 60 percent are financially independent of their parents, compared to about one-third of other students

.
i was in that one third back in the day. the pell grant was only about a third of my tuition and fees, too.

>source<

whether or not poorer folks can actually quantify the ways the obama has stroked them in the last couple years, i would imagine that they would contend he has to a greater degree.

a bit of a moot argument since congress is responsible for most of our policy in the end.

 

[Foxfyre]

let's see 1 republican who outpolls Obama in head to head. No long list just show me 1.

The election is still 28 months away and no Republican has yet emerged as even a probable front runner, much less clearly as a front runner. So there is no way to make a comparison between any Republican and Obama at the moment that would have any kind of meaning. Once the Republicans start announcing and running for President in 2012, then the polls will have some meaning at least in public perception at any given time.

Right now the GOP is struggling because we still have idiots in Washngton who are talking and behaving as Democrats which is what the GOP base despised about their party from the get go. As long as that continues, the GOP will continue to experience poll ratings in the basement.

The Democrats, by contrast, have a substantially larger number of registered voters and hold all the cards in the White House and Congress but aren't enjoying appreciably better approval ratings.

And month by month, little by little, the independent movements such as the Tea Partiers, 9/12ers, Tax Protest groups etc. are being better understood by more Americans out there and the demonization of such groups isn't working as effectively. And they're steadily gaining in approval ratings and outpolling everybody else. Also re the economy and social policy, the gap between those who continue to blame the Bush Administration and those who now blame the Obama Administration has been steadily narrowing and unless he can find some way to dramatically turn it around, I believe Obama will be winning the blame game within the next few weeks.

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Monday, June 21, 2010

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 29% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -15 (see trends).

The president’s ratings fell following his speech last Tuesday night and reached new lows. However, the negative bounce appears to be over and the public perception of the president is back to where it’s been for months.

Still, 62% of Adults nationwide say most politicians want more power and money for the government. At the same time, 58% believe that most voters want the opposite.

Forty-seven percent (47%) still blame today’s economic problems on the recession that began during the presidency of George W. Bush. But now 45% say they're due to the policies of President Obama.
More here:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...a_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_

poll

 

[antagon]

On the other hand those who have the insight to stay in school, educate themselves, put in their time in McJobs to develop a work ethic, references, and skill sets, prepare themselves for a marketable trade, and stay pretty much away from illegal substances and activities BEFORE they start a family are pretty unlikely to be in that low income group. Or they are unlikely to be there for long.

Insight also suggests that those who don't do that are likely to vote for and/or support politicians who will reward them for lack of foresight and/or for being irresponsible.

drawing any real conclusions on PC's lame attempts at inflating her sense of righteous elitism might require more insight in and of it self:

• insight into what the history of this demography was.
  
• insight into what partisan demographics look like along these same lines.
  
• realization that it is equally insightful to recognize a bias in your favor as much as it is to recognize one against you.

could go on...

 

[editec]

But polls don't matter, right?

It is odd that people in the lowest income group still have the highest approval rating of him. He has done nothing for them. The cash for clunkers and cash for houses benefitted chiefly middle class people. It is no wonder he has enlisted Al Sharpton to shore up his support in the black community.

Wrong per usual.

The number of people getting food stamps has increased as their need for them increased.

Unemployment insurance was extended.

HEAP fuel assistance got easier to get.

These are tangible things that have happened thanks to Obama and the Dems.

The states are still able to offer assistence to their citizens in need because the FEDS increased revenue sharing.

Now, RAb, You may object to these changes in policy in principle, of course, but if you're buying food stamps or fuel for your home, or you're still paying your bills even though you're umemployed, you have a Democratic administration to thank for that.