CDZ Imperialism and mass murder or noninterventionism and virtue?

[Kalki]

Incomplete list of Imperialism and mass murder, and assorted military actions of the U.S.

1775–83 – American Revolutionary War
1776–77 – Second Cherokee War
1776–94 – Cherokee–American wars
1785–95 – Northwest Indian War
1786–87 – Shays' Rebellion: a Western Massachusetts debtor's revolt
1791–94 – Whiskey Rebellion
1798–1800 – Quasi-War
1799–1800 – Fries' Rebellion
1801–05 – First Barbary War
1806 – Action in Spanish Mexico
1806–10 – Action in the Gulf of Mexico
1810 – West Florida (Spanish territory)
1812 – Amelia Island and other parts of east Florida, then under Spain
1812–15 – War of 1812
1813 – West Florida (Spanish territory)
1813–14 – Marquesas Islands (French Polynesia)
1814 – Spanish Florida
1814–25 – Caribbean
1815 – Algiers
1815 – Tripoli
1816 – Spanish Florida
1816–18 – Spanish Florida
1817 – Amelia Island (Spanish territory off Florida)
1818 – Oregon
1820–23 – Africa
1822 – Cuba
Monroe Doctrine
1823 – Cuba
1824 – Cuba
1824 – Puerto Rico (Spanish territory)
1825 – Cuba
1827 – Greece
1831–32 – Falkland Islands
1832 – Attack on Quallah Battoo: Sumatra, Indonesia
1833 – Argentina
1835–36 – Peru
1835–42 – Florida Territory
1838 – The Caroline affair on Navy Island, Canada
1838–39 – Sumatra (Indonesia)
1840 – Fiji Islands
1841 – McKean Island (Drummond Island/Taputenea), Gilbert Islands
1841 – Samoa
1842 – Mexico
1843 – China
1843 – Africa
1844 – Mexico
1846–48 – Mexican–American War
1849 – Smyrna (İzmir, Turkey)
1851 – Ottoman Empire
1851 – Johanna Island
1852–53 – Argentina
1853 – Nicaragua
1853–54 – Japan Commodore Matthew Perry
1853–54 – Ryūkyū and Bonin Islands
1854 – China
1854 – Nicaragua
1855 – China
1855 – Fiji Islands
1855 – Uruguay
1856 – Panama
1856 – China
1857–58 – Utah War
1857 – Nicaragua
1858 – Uruguay
1858 – Fiji Islands
1858–59 – Ottoman Empire
1859 – Paraguay
1859 – Mexico
1859 – China
1860 – Angola, Portuguese West Africa
1860 – Colombia, Bay of Panama
1861–65 – American Civil War
1863 – Japan: July 16, Naval battle of Shimonoseki
1864 – Japan
1865 – Panama
1865–77 – Southern United States – Reconstruction
1866 – Mexico
1866 – China
1867 – Nicaragua
1867 – Formosa (island of Taiwan)
1868 – Japan
1868 – Uruguay
1868 – Colombia
1870 – Battle of Boca Teacapan
1870 – Kingdom of Hawaii
1872 – Korea: Shinmiyangyo
1873 – Colombia (Bay of Panama)
1873–96 – Mexico
1874 – Honolulu Courthouse Riot
1876 – Mexico
1878 – Lincoln County, New Mexico
1882 – Egyptian Expedition
1885 – Panama (Colón)
1888 – Korea
1888 – Haiti
1888–89 – Samoan crisis
1889 – Kingdom of Hawaii
1890 – Argentina
1890 – South Dakota
1891 – Haiti
1891 – Bering Sea
1891 – Itata Incident
1891 – Chile
1892 – Homestead Strike
1892 – Wyoming
1893 – Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom
1894 – Nicaragua
1894–95 – China
1894–96 – Korea
1895 – Colombia
1896 – Nicaragua
1898 – Nicaragua
1898 – Spanish–American War
1898–99 – Samoa
1898–99 – China
1899 – Nicaragua
1899–1913 – Philippine Islands: Philippine–American War
1900 – China
1901 – Colombia (State of Panama)
1902 – Colombia
1902 – Colombia (State of Panama)
1903 – Honduras
1903 – Dominican Republic
1903 – Syria
1903–04 – Abyssinia (Ethiopia)
1903–14 – Panama
Jacob Schiff finances the Japanese.
1904 – Dominican Republic
1904 – Tangier, Morocco
1904 – Panama
1904–05 – Korea
1906–09 – Cuba
1907 – Honduras
1910 – Nicaragua
1911 – Honduras
1911 – China
1912 – Honduras
1912 – Panama
1912 – Cuba
1912 – China
1912 – Turkey
1912–25 – Nicaragua
1912–41 – China
1913 – Mexico
1914 - Ludlow massacre
1914 – Haiti
1914 – Dominican Republic
1914–17 – Mexico: Tampico Affair
1915–34 – Haiti
1916 – China
1916–24 – Dominican Republic
1917 - Jacob Schiff finances the bolsheviks
1917 – China
1917–18 – World War I
'Why Is Your Country At War and What Happens To You After the War' by Charles Lindbergh, is confiscated by authorities and the printing press destroyed.
1917–22 – Cuba
1918–19 – Mexico
1918–20 – Panama
1918–20 – Russian SFSR
1919 – Dalmatia (Croatia)
1919 – Turkey
1919 – Honduras
1920 – China
1920 – Guatemala
1920–22 – Russia (Siberia)
1921 – Panama and Costa Rica
1921 - Battle of Blair Mountain
1922 – Turkey
1922–23 – China
1924 – Honduras
1924 – China
1925 – China
1925 – Honduras
1925 – Panama
1926–33 – Nicaragua
1926 – China
1927 – China
'Propaganda' by Edward Bernays published.
1932 – China
1932 – United States: "Bonus Army"
1933 – Cuba
1933 - Haavara Agreement signed
1934 – China
'War Is A Racket' by Smedley Butler published
1938 - Sudetenland massacres of ethnic Germans
1939 - Danzig massacres
1940 - Henry Morgenthau Jr establishes the oil embargo of the Japanese to push them into war with America, the Japanese retaliate.
1940 – Newfoundland
1940 - Bermuda
1940 - St. Lucia
1940 - Bahamas
1940 - Jamaica
1940 - Antigua
1940 - Trinidad
1940 - British Guiana
1941 – Greenland
1941 – Netherlands (Dutch Guiana)
1941 – Iceland
1941 – Germany
1941–45 – World War II
'The Greatest Story Never Told' by Dennis Wise film footage.
'Hellstorm: the Genocide of Germany' by Thomas Goodrich film footage.
Morgenthau Plan agreed to among allied nations
1945 – China
1945–49 – Occupation of part of Germany
1945–55 – Occupation of part of Austria
1945–52 – Occupation of Japan
1944–46 – Temporary reoccupation of the Philippines
1945–47 – U.S. Marines garrisoned in mainland China
1945–49 – Post-World War II occupation of South Korea
1946 – Trieste, (Italy)
1948 – Jerusalem (British Mandate)
1948 – Berlin: Berlin Airlift
1948–49 – China
1950–53 – Korean War
1950–55 – Formosa (Taiwan)
1953 - Operation Ajax
1954–55 – China
1955–64 – Vietnam
1956 – Egypt
1958 – Lebanon
1959–60 – The Caribbean
1959–75 – Vietnam War
1961 – Cuba
1962 - Operation Northwoods
1962 – Thailand
1962 – Cuba
1962–75 – Laos
Robert McNamara lies about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get support to bomb Vietnam.
1964 – Congo (Zaïre)
1965 – Invasion of Dominican Republic
1967 – Israel: The USS Liberty incident
1967 – Congo (Zaïre)
1968 – Laos & Cambodia
1970 – Cambodian Campaign
1972 – North Vietnam
1973 – Operation Nickel Grass
1974 – Evacuation from Cyprus
1975 – Evacuation from Vietnam
1975 – Evacuation from Cambodia
1975 – South Vietnam
1975 – Cambodia: Mayaguez incident
1976 – Lebanon
1976 – Korea
1978 – Zaïre (Congo)
1980 – Iran
1980 – Sinai Operation Bright Star
1981 – El Salvador
1981 – Libya
1982 – Sinai
1982 – Lebanon
1982–83 – Lebanon
1983 – Egypt
1983 – Grenada
1983–89 – Honduras
1983 – Chad
1984 – Persian Gulf
1985 – Italy
1986 – Libya
1986 – Libya: Operation El Dorado Canyon
1986 – Bolivia
1987 – Persian Gulf
1987 – Persian Gulf: Operation Nimble Archer
1987–88 – Persian Gulf: Operation Earnest Will
1987–88 – Persian Gulf: Operation Prime Chance
1988 – Persian Gulf: Operation Praying Mantis
1988 – Honduras
1988 – USS Vincennes shoot-down of Iran Air Flight 655.
1988 – Panama
1989 – Libya
1989 – Panama
1989 – Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru
1989 – Philippines
1989–90 – Panama
1990 – Liberia
1990 – Saudi Arabia
1991 – Iraq and Kuwait: Gulf War
1991–96 – Iraq
1991 – Iraq
1991 – Zaire
1992 – Sierra Leone
1992–96 – Bosnia and Herzegovina
1992 – Kuwait
1992–2003 – Iraq: Iraqi no-fly zones
1992–95 – Somalia
1993–95 – Bosnia: Operation Deny Flight
1993 – Macedonia
1994 – Bosnia: Banja Luka incident
1994–95 – Haiti
1994 – Macedonia
'The Creature From Jekyll Island' by G. Edward Griffin is published.
1995 – Bosnia: Operation Deliberate Force
1996 – Liberia
1996 – Central African Republic
1996 – Kuwait
1996 – Bosnia
1997 – Albania
1997 – Congo and Gabon
1997 – Sierra Leone
1997 – Cambodia
1998 – Iraq: Operation Desert Fox
1998 – Guinea-Bissau
1998–99 – Kenya and Tanzania
1998 – Afghanistan and Sudan
1998 – Liberia
1999–2001 – East Timor
1999 – Serbia: Operation Allied Force
2000 – Sierra Leone
2000 – Nigeria
2000 – Yemen
2000 – East Timor
2001 – China Hainan Island
2001–present – War in Afghanistan
2002 – Yemen
2002 – Philippines
2002 – Côte d'Ivoire
2003–2011 – War in Iraq
2003 – Liberia
2003 – Georgia and Djibouti
'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' by John Perkins published.
2004 – Haiti
2004 – Georgia
2004 - Djibouti
2004 - Kenya
2004 - Ethiopia
2004 - Yemen
2004 - Eritrea
2004–present: North-West Pakistan
2005–06 – Pakistan
2006 – Lebanon
2007 - The Mogadishu Encounter
2007 – Somalia: Battle of Ras Kamboni
2008 – South Ossetia, Georgia
2010–present - Yemen
2010–11 – Iraq Operation New Dawn
2011 – Libya
2011 – Pakistan Operation Neptune Spear
2011 – Somalia Drone strikes
2011–present – Uganda
2012 – Jordan
2012 – Turkey
2012 – Chad
2013 – Mali
2013 – Somalia
2013 – Korean crisis
2013 – Somalia
2014–present – Uganda
2014–present - Iraq
2014 - present - Syria
2014 - Yemen
2015 - Iran Strait of Hormuz
2015–present - Cameroon

The nation of America was founded on the policy of non-interventionism, there was some necessity of military intervention such as at Tripoli in 1801 due to piracy. However, the policies radically changed with the Monroe Doctrine and we can see that America is indisputably an Empire or hegemony.

Why do people support mass murder? The founders of America were against what America has become, this is why they established the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights and believed in non-interventionism and foreign entanglements.

Read, 'The Second Amendment Primer' by Les Adams, to gain insight into the founder's vision.

How many of the nations that have received mass murder from the U.S. government, have bombed America? Why do you support the policies of empire and mass murder? What right do Americans have to commit mass murder on others?

200 million people were mass murdered by governments in the 20th century alone. Why are the people who hate the Natural Human Right of the 2nd amendment, in support of the mass murders of the U.S. government?

Why are the people who support the founders visions as expressed in 'The Second Amendment Primer' by Les Adams, in support of mass murder of others and violating their human rights? The founders of America would be rolling in their graves to see people in America today, loudly expressing the desire to intervene in other nation's and mass murder them. How did the Republican party leadership manipulate the people under their control? Same with the Democrats?

 

[oldsoul]

So, just to clarify, was the American Revolution (or American War for Independance) an act of Imperialism, or was it "simply" an act of Mass Murder?

 

[Kalki]

So, just to clarify, was the American Revolution (or American War for Independance) an act of Imperialism, or was it "simply" an act of Mass Murder?

To restate what was written: "there was some necessity of military intervention such as at Tripoli in 1801 due to piracy"

Also, to restate what was written, "Incomplete list of Imperialism and mass murder, and assorted military actions of the U.S."

I believe the Revolutionary War was not immoral, as well, to clarify beliefs

 

[oldsoul]

So, just to clarify, was the American Revolution (or American War for Independance) an act of Imperialism, or was it "simply" an act of Mass Murder?

To restate what was written: "there was some necessity of military intervention such as at Tripoli in 1801 due to piracy"

Also, to restate what was written, "Incomplete list of Imperialism and mass murder, and assorted military actions of the U.S."

I believe the Revolutionary War was not immoral, as well, to clarify beliefs

To lump them all together under such a diverse definition undermines your credibility, IMO.

 

[TNHarley]

The second President passed a law where people couldn't speak out against the govt. He had some framers support, too...
My point is, its nothing new.

 

[Elvis Obama]

If there's a point being made here, or a legitimate topic of discussion being raised, then I'm afraid I've missed it.

Every one of these supposed atrocities is due to the second amendment? Even the American Revolution?

 

[Kalki]

This is the point:

"That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty" (Virginia Convention 27 June 1788).

"That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up" (North Carolina constitution 18 December 1776).

"A militia when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in great measure unnecesary" ('The Federal Farmer' or Richard Henry Lee).

"Men of republican principles have been jealous of a standing army as dangerous of liberty [...] The standing army of Caesar destroyed the Roman republic. The standing army of Cromwell turned the Long Parliament out of doors" ('The Wealth of Nations' by Adam Smith). Development of the right to bear arms in England.

"The militia, sir, is our ultimate safety. We can have no security without it [...] The great object is, that every man be armed [...] Everyone who is able may have a gun.
Congress, by the power of taxation, by that of raising an army, and by their control over the militia, have the sword in one hand, and the purse in the other. Shall we be safe without either? Congress have an unlimited power over both: they are entirely given up by us. Let him candidly tell me, where and when did freedom exist, when the sword and purse were given up from the people? Unless a miracle in human affairs interposed, no nation ever retained its liberty after the loss of the sword and the purse" (Patrick Henry).

"Mercenary armies [...] have at one time or another subverted the liberties of almost all the Countries they have been raised to defend" (George Washington).

"Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion [...] in private self-defence" (John Adams).

"What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty" (Elbridge Gerry).

"The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to overawe them" (Tench Coxe).

"Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction" (St. George Tucker).

"The right of bearing arms - which with us is not limited and restrained by an arbitrary system of game laws as in England; but, is particularly enjoyed by every citizen, and is among his most valuable privileges, since it furnishes the means of resisting as a freeman ought, the inroads of usurpation" (Henry St. George Tucker).

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of people are armed" (Noah Webster).

"[...] The powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared to any possible army must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are these militia? Are they not our selves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other birthright of an American [...] [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Pennsylvania Gazette 20 February 1788 on the proposed Constitution by a Pennsylvanian).

The sources are cited for the original documents quoted here in 'The Second Amendment Primer' by Les Adams, if anyone wants to see them.

The founders of America considered a standing army to be one of the greatest threats to liberty, of one's own nation, as well as of other nations not one's own. America has been misled and misguided far away and off track from the visions of the founders and their fear of standing militaries or mercenaries.

That is the point. The American government would not be committing mass murder all over the world, if there were not standing armies. There are 700 or more, American military bases spread throughout the world. This is an empire.

 

[Kalki]

This has nothing to do with my credibility. Use your own reasoning skills. The point of the long list was to enable anyone interested to research those facts and copy it and add other data or relevant information. Not all of those military actions involved murder, some were evacuations, when the subjugated nations rose up against the Imperialist power. The list is from wikipedia.

If you do not support Iran or Vietnam or anyone else, patrolling American shores, and establishing military bases in America to keep an eye on the Americans, then how can you support this when your government does this to others? It is the ultimate hypocrisy by a people who claim to value human rights and liberty.

 

[Elvis Obama]

This is the point:

"That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty" (Virginia Convention 27 June 1788).

"That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up" (North Carolina constitution 18 December 1776).

"A militia when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in great measure unnecesary" ('The Federal Farmer' or Richard Henry Lee).

"Men of republican principles have been jealous of a standing army as dangerous of liberty [...] The standing army of Caesar destroyed the Roman republic. The standing army of Cromwell turned the Long Parliament out of doors" ('The Wealth of Nations' by Adam Smith). Development of the right to bear arms in England.

"The militia, sir, is our ultimate safety. We can have no security without it [...] The great object is, that every man be armed [...] Everyone who is able may have a gun.
Congress, by the power of taxation, by that of raising an army, and by their control over the militia, have the sword in one hand, and the purse in the other. Shall we be safe without either? Congress have an unlimited power over both: they are entirely given up by us. Let him candidly tell me, where and when did freedom exist, when the sword and purse were given up from the people? Unless a miracle in human affairs interposed, no nation ever retained its liberty after the loss of the sword and the purse" (Patrick Henry).

"Mercenary armies [...] have at one time or another subverted the liberties of almost all the Countries they have been raised to defend" (George Washington).

"Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion [...] in private self-defence" (John Adams).

"What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty" (Elbridge Gerry).

"The militia, who are in fact the effective part of the people at large, will render many troops quite unnecessary. They will form a powerful check upon the regular troops, and will generally be sufficient to overawe them" (Tench Coxe).

"Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction" (St. George Tucker).

"The right of bearing arms - which with us is not limited and restrained by an arbitrary system of game laws as in England; but, is particularly enjoyed by every citizen, and is among his most valuable privileges, since it furnishes the means of resisting as a freeman ought, the inroads of usurpation" (Henry St. George Tucker).

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of people are armed" (Noah Webster).

"[...] The powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared to any possible army must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are these militia? Are they not our selves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other birthright of an American [...] [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Pennsylvania Gazette 20 February 1788 on the proposed Constitution by a Pennsylvanian).

The sources are cited for the original documents quoted here are found in 'The Second Amendment Primer' by Les Adams.

The founders considered a standing army to be one of the greatest threats to liberty, of one's own nation, as well as of other nations not one's own. America has been misled and misguided.

That is the point. America would not be committing mass murder all over the world, if there were not standing armies. There are 700 or more, American military bases spread throughout the world. This is an empire. The blood of innocents is on the hands of anyone who is informed of this and willing and knowingly supports this.

OK, that's clearer, though a heck of a lot scarier.

So, a standing army is the villain. Right. That means what, exactly? We should disband the army, navy, air force and marines? Who get the aircraft carriers? Nebraska?

 

[Kalki]

Recycle the metal. Keep some of the ships and planes to protect from piracy and such. Disband the military bases in foreign lands. Keep all of the nuclear weapons in a ready state. Keep a much smaller number of people as professional military strategists, trained in the knowledge of warfare.

No one will dare attack a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons and guns in the hands of every adult. The point isn't that the entire structure of the military needs to be removed, just the vast majority of it.

 

[320 Years of History]

So, just to clarify, was the American Revolution (or American War for Independance) an act of Imperialism, or was it "simply" an act of Mass Murder?

Might it be that it was neither, both, one plus something else, or both plus something else?

I personally think it'd be hard, however, to make the case that the American Revolution was an imperialist act. After all, one must "own" a nation from which to start one's imperialist quest to add others (or just more land) to one's "stash."

 

[oldsoul]

Recycle the metal. Keep some of the ships and planes to protect from piracy and such. Disband the military bases in foreign lands. Keep all of the nuclear weapons in a ready state. Keep a much smaller number of people as professional military strategists, trained in the knowledge of warfare.

No one will dare attack a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons and guns in the hands of every adult. The point isn't that the entire structure of the military needs to be removed, just the vast majority of it.

That is naive at best, suicide at worst. Who would invade a country with no serious means of defense? Simply put, anyone who wanted to. What would we do? Nuke 'em? Shoot at their tanks with pistols and hunting rifles? Come on get serious.

Yes, a standing army is a threat to liberty. One that, while distasteful, is quite nessicary. This is one of the reasons behind the founders putting ultimate control of the military in the hands of civilians.

 

[Kalki]

So, just to clarify, was the American Revolution (or American War for Independance) an act of Imperialism, or was it "simply" an act of Mass Murder?

Might it be that it was neither, both, one plus something else, or both plus something else?

I personally think it'd be hard, however, to make the case that the American Revolution was an imperialist act. After all, one must "own" a nation from which to start one's imperialist quest to add others (or just more land) to one's "stash."

For the 3rd time: I never stated that the list is entirely of Imperialist actions, I stated that it is an incomplete list of military actions. Anyone can go to wikipedia and see what each of those actions were. No straw man fallacies please, or if this is unintentional, you are missing the entire point.

 

[Kalki]

oldsoul, please read the quotes I added from the founders, on the previous page, you are misunderstanding, and missing the entire point. Of course, America would nuke the attackers. All that would be required is to nuke the capital and the main cities of the nation doing the attacking and the attack would stop in short order.

 

[Kalki]

The main thing I'll remember are the eyes,

the eyes of the women of Baghdad.

Women who would look,

with eyes of deep sadness,

Every night they slept with their children

because if their homes were bombed

they wanted to die with them.

And all those children in hospitals,

who were missing an arm, a leg,

who had third degree burns..

These women never cried.

Never.

 

[Kalki]

Watch what you support:

youtube:
'Hellstorm: The Genocide of Nazi Germany'

Treaty of Versailles
Haavara Agreement
Morgenthau oil embargo of the Japanese
Danzig massacres of ethnic Germans
Sudetenland massacres of ethnic Germans
Morgenthau Plan

'The Greatest Story Never Told' by Dennis Wise

'Why Is Your Country At War and What Happens To You After the War' by Charles Lindbergh

"Tell the American people we are going to war to bring democracy to Europe" - Edward Bernays to Woodrow Wilson. 1917

"We are going to war in Iraq to bring them democracy." 2003. PNAC; Oded Yinon Plan.

How many of the nations America has committed mass murder in, have invaded and bombed America?

How many of the nations America has military bases in, have military bases in America, keeping an eye on America?

How many nations are patrolling the shorelines of America in their warships?

How many millions more deaths and untold sufferings are Americans going to support?

Is karma an esoteric law?

 

[320 Years of History]

For the 3rd time: I never stated that the list is entirely of Imperialist actions, I stated that it is an incomplete list of military actions. Anyone can go to wikipedia and see what each of those actions were. No straw man fallacies please, or if this is unintentional, you are missing the entire point.

We can all read in the OP -- thus you need not have reiterated it thrice -- that you described that long, long litany of events as an "Incomplete list of Imperialism and mass murder, and assorted military actions of the U.S." That would necessitate it being true that the American Revolution needs to be one of those three things.

Clearly the best choice among the three is "assorted military action," but that's not one of the options oldsoul elected to address. Of the descriptive classes I identified, "neither" seems now, as before, to be the correct categorization of the options oldsoul chose to discuss.

As I've said to "I don't know how many folks" or how often, read and respond to what is written rather than what one thinks the writer may have intended when there exists ambiguity or vagueness in the writer's words. Better yet, ask for clarification and or confirmation of one's suppositions.

 

[Kalki]

"English "and" has properties not captured by logical conjunction. For example, "and" sometimes implies order. For example, "They got married and had a child" in common discourse means that the marriage came before the child. The word "and" can also imply a partition of a thing into parts, as "The American flag is red, white, and blue." Here it is not meant that the flag is at once red, white, and blue, but rather that it has a part of each color." - From: wikipedia under Logical conjunction.

Please try to look at the forest, rather than a strange leaf with a hole that exists only in your own perception. Obviously, I gave the list to show how many nations America has been meddling in for centuries, I clarified they do not all involve mass murder, nor do they all involve imperialism.

However, when we look at the totality, it is plain to see that America is an empire, not a republic - as it was originally intended to be.

 

[Kalki]

ISIL was created by the CIA, and this was admitted in news reports in America. The reason it takes 65 nations to attack ISIL and still not defeat them is because the goal is not to defeat them, as it is plain to see in the Oded Yinon Plan and the PNAC or the interview on youtube of General Wesley Clark from 1991, who stated that he received orders the goal is to "destabilize the Middle East".

The CIA was arming and supporting the mercenaries who destroyed Libya; they were arming people in Iraq in the 1970s; they were in Iran in 1953 and overthrew the government, look up Operation Ajax. The CIA has been all over the world overthrowing governments who will not submit to the demands of International Finance and the corporations who rule America. This is nothing new. They were in the banana republics too, overthrowing governments and installing dictators who will work with the corporations to rob their nations of their resources and labor. Nothing new here, nothing to see, move on.

"Syria in 1949, Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Brazil in 1964.

Korea In 1952, CIA covert action sent 1,500 more expatriate agents north.

China: In July 1952, the CIA sent a team of expatriates in

Indonesia: The Eisenhower White House responded with NSC 5518 authorizing "all feasible covert means" to move Indonesia into the Western sphere.[45] The CIA started funding the Masyumi Party.

On September 25, 1957, Eisenhower ordered the CIA to start a revolution in Indonesia with the goal of regime change.

Congo: In the election of Patrice Lumumba, and his acceptance of Soviet support the CIA saw another possible Cuba. This view swayed the White House. Eisenhower ordered that Lumumba be "eliminated". The CIA delivered a quarter of a million dollars to Joseph Mobutu, their favorite horse in the race. Mobutu delivered Lumumba to the Belgians, the former colonial masters of Congo, who executed him in short order.

Dominican Republic: 1960: The CIA's Special Group had decided to arm Dominicans in hopes of an assassination.
Cuba: On December 11, 1959, a memo reached the DI's desk recommending Castro's "elimination". Dulles replaced the word "elimination" with "removal", and set the wheels in motion. By mid August 1960, Dick Bissell sought, with the blessing of the CIA, to hire the Mafia to assassinate Castro.

Indochina: The first CIA mission to Indochina, under the code name Saigon Military Mission arrived in 1954, under Edward Lansdale. U.S.-based analysts were simultaneously trying to project the evolution of political power, both if the scheduled referendum chose merger of the North and South, or if the South, the U.S. client, stayed independent. Initially, the US focus in Southeast Asia was on Laos, not Vietnam.

Tibet: The CIA Tibetan program consists of political plots, propaganda distribution, as well as paramilitary and intelligence gathering based on U.S. commitments made to the Dalai Lama in 1951 and 1956

Chad: Chad's neighbor Libya was a major source of weaponry to communist rebel forces. The CIA seized the opportunity to arm and finance Chad's Prime Minister, Hissène Habré after he created a breakaway government in Western Sudan, even giving him Stinger missiles.

Afghanistan: In Afghanistan, the CIA funneled a billion dollars worth of weapons to Pakistani intelligence, which funneled them through Pakistani tribes, which funneled them to Afghan resistance groups, notably the Mujahideen.

Nicaragua: Under President Jimmy Carter, the CIA was conducting covertly funding pro-American opposition against the Sandinista. In March 1981, Reagan told Congress that the CIA would protect El Salvador by preventing the shipment of Nicaraguan arms into the country to arm Communist rebels. This was a ruse. The CIA was actually arming and training Nicaraguans Contras in Honduras in hopes that they could depose the Sandinistas in Nicaragua.

Lebanon: The CIA was blinded by the uprising against the Maronite minority. Israel invaded Lebanon, and, along with the CIA, propped up Gemayel

Nicaragua again: The CIA also mined the port of Corinto, an act of war that resulted in a public trial in the International Court of Justice. These two public incidents triggered Congress to clamp down on CIA funding even more, banning them from soliciting funds from third parties to fund the Contras.

Iran and Iraq in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war, the CIA had backed both sides."

All writings from wikipedia if a search is done for covert U.S. foreign regime change actions.

 

[320 Years of History]

"English "and" has properties not captured by logical conjunction. For example, "and" sometimes implies order. For example, "They got married and had a child" in common discourse means that the marriage came before the child. The word "and" can also imply a partition of a thing into parts, as "The American flag is red, white, and blue." Here it is not meant that the flag is at once red, white, and blue, but rather that it has a part of each color." - From: wikipedia under Logical conjunction.

Please try to look at the forest, rather than a strange leaf with a hole that exists only in your own perception. Obviously, I gave the list to show how many nations America has been meddling in for centuries, I clarified they do not all involve mass murder, nor do they all involve imperialism.

However, when we look at the totality, it is plain to see that America is an empire, not a republic - as it was originally intended to be.

The grammar review you provided, though a touch incomplete and a touch inaccurate, is surely helpful to someone. Notwithstanding, America, regardless whether it is today an Empire, absolutely was not at the time of the American Revolution. Indeed, it was by dint of the Revolution and the Seven Years War that Americans gave up their membership (or any potential for there being any) nations that then were empires, most notably France and England. Moreover, less than 30 years after the Revolution, via the Louisiana Purchase, Americans effected the end of any meaningful French presence in the territory of the U.S.

That's not to say the Founders had, or had no, visions of empire in their minds, only that in 1776 and for quite a while afterwards, America was not an empire. Certainly after acquiring "Louisiana," America reached the size of substantively the whole of Europe, and, if on no other basis than size, America might, repeat...might....then have been called an empire. It'd be a difficult moniker to make stick, however, because size notwithstanding, America was better suited to fighting small skirmishes adjacent to itself and defending against foreign encroachment than it was conquering distant lands and also holding on to its core territory.

Far more plausible, with or without considering the Monroe Doctrine and Manifest Destiny, is that the U.S. became an empire between the first and second World Wars, and certainly after WWII, the key difference being that it wasn't until then the U.S. could project and effect its will by using its power (economic and military) to influence and control geopolitics and global economics.

One thing in my mind is that the U.S. "idea" of empire differs from that of the Great European Powers of the 19th century and before. The key difference being that the "old boys" saw empire as necessitating one own the far flung lands that comprised the components of their empires. The U.S. version doesn't require that; American leaders figured out that creating economic and military dependence on the part of other nations was, for the purpose of ensuring one's political will is exerted, substantively as good as actually owning the land.