Immigration reform, what should it be

[alanbmx123]

Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month. Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed? Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.


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[ShackledNation]

I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.

Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come. Basic background checks, ensuring proper immunizations, a clean bill of health (no contagious diseases) should all be required. For those who cannot afford immunizations, I would hope US charities who seek to help immigrants would raise money to pay for them (which no doubt they would if given the chance).

The goal would be to ensure people coming are not criminals, and are not going to pose any health threat (a test most will pass).

I do not believe they should instantly become citizens. They should be granted a type of permanent residency status. Additionally, because our welfare system is so screwed up, and there is the possibility of abuse, I would not allow immigrants to use welfare services for a set amount of time.

I would also reform minimum wage and actually make it lower or get rid of it. Many of these people are willing to work for less, in jobs that Americans would not do anyway. Research has also shown that immigrants that work below minimum wage are not taking higher paying jobs away, but creating new jobs that would not exist if minimum wage were enforced. If all immigrant farmers were paid minimum wage, for example, it is likely that there would be less farm workers and more imports from countries with lower wages.

Those are the rules I would set. Those here now would apply for similar legal status.

The goal is that people who want to come here should be allowed to, so long as they are willing to work (which is the reason many come here anyway--jobs) as opposed to just live off of welfare.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The reform advocated by President George W. Bush:

We Must Bring Undocumented Workers Already In The Country Out Of The Shadows

Comprehensive Immigration Reform Must Account For The Millions Of Immigrants Already In The Country Illegally.* Illegal immigration causes serious problems, putting pressure on public schools and hospitals and straining State and local budgets.* People who have worked hard, supported their families, avoided crime, led responsible lives, and become a part of American life should be called in out of the shadows and under the rule of American law.

The President Opposes An Automatic Path To Citizenship Or Any Other Form Of Amnesty. Amnesty, as a reward for lawbreaking, would only invite further lawbreaking.* Amnesty would also be unfair to those lawful immigrants who have patiently waited their turn for citizenship and to those who are still waiting to enter the country legally.

The President Supports A Rational Middle Ground Between A Program Of Mass Deportation And A Program Of Automatic Amnesty. It is neither wise nor realistic to round up and deport millions of illegal immigrants in the United States. But there should be no automatic path to citizenship. The President supports a rational middle ground founded on the following basic tenets:

No Amnesty. Workers who have entered the country illegally and workers who have overstayed their visas must pay a substantial penalty for their illegal conduct.

In Addition To Paying A Meaningful Penalty, Undocumented Workers Must Learn English, Pay Their Taxes, Pass A Background Check, And Hold A Job For A Number Of Years Before They Will Be Eligible To Be Considered For Legalized Status.

Any Undocumented Worker Seeking Citizenship Must Go To The "Back Of The Line."* The program should not reward illegal conduct by making participants eligible for citizenship ahead of those who have played by the rules and followed the law.* Instead, program participants must wait their turn at the back of the line.

President Bush's Plan For Comprehensive Immigration Reform

 

[alanbmx123]

there we go again making it simple and to the point. Agree with both. yet nothing can get done, still waiting for the progressive plan

 

[Moonglow]

progressive insurance has a plan for immigration?

They are a little busy right now...

 

[cutter]

We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.

 

[ShackledNation]

We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.

Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.

The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.

 

[cutter]

We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.

Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.

The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.

What have we become when enforcing current law is just sills. It's illegal to not enforce the law. If the law says we have to keep the children then keep them and send all the adults home. Saying we can't afford to secpure the border is just silly. Dems won't spend a dime on security but tell us we can afford to take in another few million poor and uneducated. Screw the rest of the world and keep our borders secure.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.

Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come.

I find your formulation very interesting for it runs counter to how people have understood the concept of immigration and your definition is becoming fairly widely held.

The historical understanding of immigration was that it was a two-sided arrangement. A potential immigrant would express desire to join a country and the government of that country would decide whether to INVITE the immigrant into joining society.

You on the other hand don't seem to care at all whether the people of the US, collectively represented by their government, want these immigrants - it's all up to the immigrant.

I'd love to see this concept applied to house guests. A house guest gets to force his presence in your home simply because he wants to live there and you get no say in the matter. I mean, if it's good enough to work at the immigrant level, shouldn't this same model work well at the house-guest level too?

 

[ShackledNation]

I'm not a dem or a progressive, but I will bite anyway.

Anyone who wants to come to America and work for a better life should be allowed to come.

I find your formulation very interesting for it runs counter to how people have understood the concept of immigration and your definition is becoming fairly widely held.

The historical understanding of immigration was that it was a two-sided arrangement. A potential immigrant would express desire to join a country and the government of that country would decide whether to INVITE the immigrant into joining society.

You on the other hand don't seem to care at all whether the people of the US, collectively represented by their government, want these immigrants - it's all up to the immigrant.

I'd love to see this concept applied to house guests. A house guest gets to force his presence in your home simply because he wants to live there and you get no say in the matter. I mean, if it's good enough to work at the immigrant level, shouldn't this same model work well at the house-guest level too?

Actually, until the late 19th century, anyone could immigrate to the United States legally. Your historical understanding is lacking.

Many employers, being people of the US, want these immigrants, you just want to use government to prohibit employers from hiring them.

Horrible analogy. Imagine that someone was willing to buy your house, you wanted them to buy it, but then government came in and said "sorry, that person cannot live here." That is the proper analogy.

 

[ShackledNation]

We have immigration laws on the book now. All we have to do is follow the law. We don't have a broken immigration system, we have a government that isn't following the laws they took an oath to uphold. Enforce the current laws, deport illegals, secure the border, problem solved.

Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.

The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.

What have we become when enforcing current law is just sills. It's illegal to not enforce the law. If the law says we have to keep the children then keep them

That is what is being enforced. Ironic in that you just a moment ago were saying the law was not being enforced because they weren't being deported.

Saying we can't afford to secpure the border is just silly. Dems won't spend a dime on security but tell us we can afford to take in another few million poor and uneducated. Screw the rest of the world and keep our borders secure.

What are you going on about? That has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

[PoliticalTorch]

Ok dem's, progressives you don't like fences, deportations, put it on the table. What should the border look like? Wide open? How many should be allowed per year/month. Should they have to have a sponsor, clean bill of health, immunizations, a skill that fits a specific need, background check, ID, birth certificate?
Once that is set what should happen to those that come illegally once the new comprehensive law is passed? Do we grant amnesty every 5 years.
Or do we set the rules and deport all who violate the law?
We have laws in place that we chose not to follow and we have chaos now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In answer to your questions I feel that you first need to know and understand about the law that President George W. Bush signed in 2008 called William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008. That effectively ties the hands of President Obama as he has to follow the former President's law on what to do with the refugee children coming from Central America.

Hume: Obama 'for Better or for Worse' Is Following Law on Border Crisis

 

[Big Black Dog]

Immigration reform, what should it be?

Very strict control of all boarders. People here illegally should be immediately deported. Illegal aliens are just like cockroaches. You get a few in the house and the next thing you know, you're over-run with them.

 

[eagle1462010]

Green Card Through a Job | USCIS

We have a process already in place. A process that is ignored for the most part.

If Companies want to use cheaper labor then they must do the paperwork to hire immigrants through the normal channels. They don't want to do that, because then they may have to pay higher wages than they are paying illegals.

Those companies hiring illegals should be held accountable for doing so and not going through the process. Force those hiring to obey the law, or pay a penalty. A citizenship I.D. process could actually do the same.

If the process is nearly impossible, and I've heard it is..........then streamline the red tape of the green card hiring process to mitigate the problem.

 

[Jughead]

The only way in which to secure the border would be to have a wall extending coast to coast and guard towers with armed guards. However, this would take a significant amount of time and resources to implement. A better solution would be to implement a policy where any employer who is caught hiring an illegal would be required (no exception) to do jail time and pay a hefty fine. As employers start going to jail, you would see a sharp drop in the number of illegals in the workforce. No one wants to go to jail. Illegals would be forced back to their countries of origin as they would have no source of income.

Amnesty will not work because after you grant amnesty to a group of illegals, you'll have a new group waiting. The cycle will just repeat itself. Not to mention that granting amnesty would be unfair to the immigrants who go through the process, and become citizens the legal way, undergoing background checks, paying the required fees, and waiting their turn in line.

 

[MaryL]

Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.

 

[cutter]

Deporting illegal immigrants instantly, especially children, would actually violate current immigration laws. Changing that would require a new law. Securing the border would require expending resources that must be allocated by Congress, which would also require a new law.

The argument of "just enforce the law" is silly. The law is broken.

What have we become when enforcing current law is just sills. It's illegal to not enforce the law. If the law says we have to keep the children then keep them

That is what is being enforced. Ironic in that you just a moment ago were saying the law was not being enforced because they weren't being deported.

Saying we can't afford to secpure the border is just silly. Dems won't spend a dime on security but tell us we can afford to take in another few million poor and uneducated. Screw the rest of the world and keep our borders secure.

What are you going on about? That has nothing to do with anything I said.

Typical progressive crap. Take a statement out of context and use as proof of something. O.K. you win SEND THEM ALL HOME, you've finally convinced me of something.

 

[Malamute]

End the family chain migration. Limit family sponsorship to spouse and minor children only but up the requirements of financial support.

Instead of family sponsorship, allow anyone to sponsor an immigrant but if and only if they will agree and be required to provide all the financial support of their immigrant --- pay all medical bills, education costs, housing costs for the entire stay of the immigrant. No immigrant should receive food stamps, Medicaid, or any government handouts, that should be the duty of the sponsor.

 

[ShackledNation]

Good thread, Fred. We NEVER ever should offer amnesty, ever, that is a deal breaker. I know you are asking democrats for a reply, I notice no liberal democrats bother to rely. I remember when our borders were open. Nobody cared if this or that person wandered over the border. Really. Canadian, Mexican, nobody cared much. Small potatoes. Well, since Regan's amnesty back in 86, things just got WORSE. it's getting to be I hear Spanish more often than English. I live almost a 1000 miles from the border! I am tired of this passive aggressive invasion by Mexico, with this victimhood persona. They are just interloping invaders. I will never accept them as immigrants or Americans. Just interlopers. Good thread.

What city do you live in where you hear more Spanish than English? Just curious.

 

[pismoe]

stop all immigration legal and illegal . Build that wall and deport , no family reunification !! When immigration is restarted be very selective in who is allowed to immigrate . I'LL do the selecting if i'm still around .