CDZ IMMIGRATION: Not what it is but what it should be.

[Foxfyre]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

All foreign nationals in the US, should have a federal id. Simply coming to and being in the US, is tourism, not immigration. Immigration requires an application and getting in line, with everyone else.

It should, but for far too long that isn't the way it is mostly done. It's like we have a huge neon flashing sign over America that says "Ya'll come and if you manage to lay low for just a little while, they'll let you stay."

Ann Coulter once summed it up by stating that the longer you have been here breaking our laws, the better chance you have that the U.S. will let you stay. If murder worked that way, the unintended case of manslaughter would get the death penalty and the serial murder would get probation.

 

[Syriusly]

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

That wall along the border with Canada will be mighty expensive.

Which is my point.

I suspect you mean a wall along the Southern Border- but that is a relatively symbolic measure. If we really needed a wall to protect us from illegal immigration- we would need a wall along our Northern border also.

Maybe but Canada does a pretty good job of keeping the illegals out of their country. And we haven't had a real big problem with being overrun by illegal Canadians. And Canada is not giving its people instructions on how to illegally enter the USA.

but we must be able to protect our borders.

So you don't really mean we must be able to protect our borders- but that you are concerned about protecting our Southern border because more illegal immigrants come across there.

Pretty much the huge lion's share of illegal immigrants are coming across the southern border. If the Canadian border ever becomes a similar problem, then we can deal with that. Right now there is no need to protect our Canadian border.

No- actually the majority of illegal immigrants are coming in legally and overstaying their visit.

Visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossings; trend likely to continue

Crossing the border is not the way "the large majority of persons now become undocumented," the Center for Migration Studies (CMS) said in a recent report. Two-thirds of those who joined the undocumented population did so by entering with a valid visa and then overstaying their period of admission, the center repored.

Overstays have exceeded those entering illegally every year since 2007, and there have been half a million more overstays than illegal entries since 2007

 

[rightwinger]

Repealing the born here automatic citizenship rule would take a constitutional amendment which won't be ratified. Otherwise at least in the ballpark.

Never happen

Our Congress can’t even agree on a budget

 

[Syriusly]

Repealing the born here automatic citizenship rule would take a constitutional amendment which won't be ratified. Otherwise at least in the ballpark.

Yes it will. But if it was written simply as "People born to at least one parent who is a U.S. citizens in good standing will receive automatic U.S. citizenship. All other persons receiving citizenship status must go through a legal naturalization process", it would easily be ratified. Most developed nations of the world have the same requirement.

Most other developed nations don't have our constitution. I doubt any Constitutional amendment could be 'easily' ratified.

That one would be.

Hell Republicans aren't even trying to.

It is that 'easy'.

 

[rightwinger]

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

That wall along the border with Canada will be mighty expensive.

Which is my point.

I suspect you mean a wall along the Southern Border- but that is a relatively symbolic measure. If we really needed a wall to protect us from illegal immigration- we would need a wall along our Northern border also.

Maybe but Canada does a pretty good job of keeping the illegals out of their country. And we haven't had a real big problem with being overrun by illegal Canadians. And Canada is not giving its people instructions on how to illegally enter the USA.

but we must be able to protect our borders.

So you don't really mean we must be able to protect our borders- but that you are concerned about protecting our Southern border because more illegal immigrants come across there.

Pretty much the huge lion's share of illegal immigrants are coming across the southern border. If the Canadian border ever becomes a similar problem, then we can deal with that. Right now there is no need to protect our Canadian border.

We need a bigger wall on the Canadian border

They come down here and steal our women and drink our beer

 

[Foxfyre]

Repealing the born here automatic citizenship rule would take a constitutional amendment which won't be ratified. Otherwise at least in the ballpark.

Yes it will. But if it was written simply as "People born to at least one parent who is a U.S. citizens in good standing will receive automatic U.S. citizenship. All other persons receiving citizenship status must go through a legal naturalization process", it would easily be ratified. Most developed nations of the world have the same requirement.

Most other developed nations don't have our constitution. I doubt any Constitutional amendment could be 'easily' ratified.

That one would be.

Hell Republicans aren't even trying to.

It is that 'easy'.

Remember, this thread is not what the policy/practices currently are but it is to discuss what the policy/practices should be.

 

[Foxfyre]

Repealing the born here automatic citizenship rule would take a constitutional amendment which won't be ratified. Otherwise at least in the ballpark.

Never happen

Our Congress can’t even agree on a budget

I don't want to focus on the way things are done now. I want to focus on how it should be.

 

[eagle1462010]

bump

 

[danielpalos]

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in.

The United States uses multiple systems to decide in new immigrants:
a) Employment based- which is what you are speaking of
b) Family sponsored immigration- which you refer to later
c) Refugees
d) Diversity lottery- this is restricted to certain countries

Most countries have some version of these programs.

Merit is a double edged sword- while I agree that we should welcome highly qualified and trained individuals- these are the most likely to compete directly with Americans for the best paying jobs.

On the other side- American employers are having a difficult time finding workers for some of the most basic industries- such as slaughter houses and farms- where immigrants are welcome employees and rarely are competing with American workers.

Number 9 on the poll and the O.P. should remedy the work shortage problem without straining our finite social services.

As for merit, the Canadians have a pretty good list of what would constitute merit. I'm sure we could come up with something as comprehensive:

Immigrate to Canada - Canada.ca

I have no problem with saying that immigrants- other than refugees- should not receive social services- and deporting them if they ask for them.

But I don't see why we should put more emphasis on allowing immigrants into the United States that more directly compete with Americans for high paying jobs- than immigrants who take jobs that Americans do not want.

low wage jobs usually get subsidized at public expense.

 

[Foxfyre]

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in.

The United States uses multiple systems to decide in new immigrants:
a) Employment based- which is what you are speaking of
b) Family sponsored immigration- which you refer to later
c) Refugees
d) Diversity lottery- this is restricted to certain countries

Most countries have some version of these programs.

Merit is a double edged sword- while I agree that we should welcome highly qualified and trained individuals- these are the most likely to compete directly with Americans for the best paying jobs.

On the other side- American employers are having a difficult time finding workers for some of the most basic industries- such as slaughter houses and farms- where immigrants are welcome employees and rarely are competing with American workers.

Number 9 on the poll and the O.P. should remedy the work shortage problem without straining our finite social services.

As for merit, the Canadians have a pretty good list of what would constitute merit. I'm sure we could come up with something as comprehensive:

Immigrate to Canada - Canada.ca

I have no problem with saying that immigrants- other than refugees- should not receive social services- and deporting them if they ask for them.

But I don't see why we should put more emphasis on allowing immigrants into the United States that more directly compete with Americans for high paying jobs- than immigrants who take jobs that Americans do not want.

low wage jobs usually get subsidized at public expense.

If millions of people are not here illegally working at substandard wages--many being paid below the table--I'm pretty sure there will be fewer low wage jobs. But low wage jobs are important for entry level workers to develop work ethic, acquire skills, get references, and prepare themselves for better jobs by which they can support themselves.

There should certainly be a provision in the immigration law making it illegal for employers to knowingly hire illegals. That would be implied in a way in No. 8 on the poll but I couldn't add a No. 11 for that specific provision.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

1, 2, 5, 7, 8, and 10 for me.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Number 10 is a bit ironic..considering that our FLOTUS would be banned if it were implemented.

 

[danielpalos]

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in.

The United States uses multiple systems to decide in new immigrants:
a) Employment based- which is what you are speaking of
b) Family sponsored immigration- which you refer to later
c) Refugees
d) Diversity lottery- this is restricted to certain countries

Most countries have some version of these programs.

Merit is a double edged sword- while I agree that we should welcome highly qualified and trained individuals- these are the most likely to compete directly with Americans for the best paying jobs.

On the other side- American employers are having a difficult time finding workers for some of the most basic industries- such as slaughter houses and farms- where immigrants are welcome employees and rarely are competing with American workers.

Number 9 on the poll and the O.P. should remedy the work shortage problem without straining our finite social services.

As for merit, the Canadians have a pretty good list of what would constitute merit. I'm sure we could come up with something as comprehensive:

Immigrate to Canada - Canada.ca

I have no problem with saying that immigrants- other than refugees- should not receive social services- and deporting them if they ask for them.

But I don't see why we should put more emphasis on allowing immigrants into the United States that more directly compete with Americans for high paying jobs- than immigrants who take jobs that Americans do not want.

low wage jobs usually get subsidized at public expense.

If millions of people are not here illegally working at substandard wages--many being paid below the table--I'm pretty sure there will be fewer low wage jobs. But low wage jobs are important for entry level workers to develop work ethic, acquire skills, get references, and prepare themselves for better jobs by which they can support themselves.

There should certainly be a provision in the immigration law making it illegal for employers to knowingly hire illegals. That would be implied in a way in No. 8 on the poll but I couldn't add a No. 11 for that specific provision.

Capitalism works. Only the right wing prefers to eschew capitalism for their socialism on a national basis, at every opportunity.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage would be more effective, and result in the poor needing fewer social services; along with paying more in taxes and local costs.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Um.. wait... we've got the cart before the horse here. The question, "What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy?" when de-euphemized, means, "When do you think it's acceptable to have men with guns infringe upon the right of free movement of presumably innocent people?"

The only moral answer to that question is "Never".

 

[Foxfyre]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Number 10 is a bit ironic..considering that our FLOTUS would be banned if it were implemented.

That story almost certainly resulted from the nasty spin and speculation turned fabrication that the numbnuts, haters, and less than honest spew at the President and First Lady. But she did enter the country legally. The worst she might have been guilty of is doing some work on a visitor's visa a few weeks before she received her H1-B visa that allowed her to work legally in the USA. And even that is uncertain, but if you want to make a big deal out of that, your criticism could be credible.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Um.. wait... we've got the cart before the horse here. The question, "What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy?" when de-euphemized, means, "When do you think it's acceptable to have men with guns infringe upon the right of free movement of presumably innocent people?"

The only moral answer to that question is "Never".

There is no 'right of free movement' across borders. Period.

I'd love to know just where you even get that idea...who legislated that 'right'?

 

[danielpalos]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Um.. wait... we've got the cart before the horse here. The question, "What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy?" when de-euphemized, means, "When do you think it's acceptable to have men with guns infringe upon the right of free movement of presumably innocent people?"

The only moral answer to that question is "Never".

There is no 'right of free movement' across borders. Period.

I'd love to know just where you even get that idea...who legislated that 'right'?

natural rights?

 

[Foxfyre]

The United States uses multiple systems to decide in new immigrants:
a) Employment based- which is what you are speaking of
b) Family sponsored immigration- which you refer to later
c) Refugees
d) Diversity lottery- this is restricted to certain countries

Most countries have some version of these programs.

Merit is a double edged sword- while I agree that we should welcome highly qualified and trained individuals- these are the most likely to compete directly with Americans for the best paying jobs.

On the other side- American employers are having a difficult time finding workers for some of the most basic industries- such as slaughter houses and farms- where immigrants are welcome employees and rarely are competing with American workers.

Number 9 on the poll and the O.P. should remedy the work shortage problem without straining our finite social services.

As for merit, the Canadians have a pretty good list of what would constitute merit. I'm sure we could come up with something as comprehensive:

Immigrate to Canada - Canada.ca

I have no problem with saying that immigrants- other than refugees- should not receive social services- and deporting them if they ask for them.

But I don't see why we should put more emphasis on allowing immigrants into the United States that more directly compete with Americans for high paying jobs- than immigrants who take jobs that Americans do not want.

low wage jobs usually get subsidized at public expense.

If millions of people are not here illegally working at substandard wages--many being paid below the table--I'm pretty sure there will be fewer low wage jobs. But low wage jobs are important for entry level workers to develop work ethic, acquire skills, get references, and prepare themselves for better jobs by which they can support themselves.

There should certainly be a provision in the immigration law making it illegal for employers to knowingly hire illegals. That would be implied in a way in No. 8 on the poll but I couldn't add a No. 11 for that specific provision.

Capitalism works. Only the right wing prefers to eschew capitalism for their socialism on a national basis, at every opportunity.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage would be more effective, and result in the poor needing fewer social services; along with paying more in taxes and local costs.

I would like to keep the topic on illegal immigration laws and what they should be please. The minimum wage is a topic for another thread though it is a topic that should be revisited now and then.

 

[Foxfyre]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Um.. wait... we've got the cart before the horse here. The question, "What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy?" when de-euphemized, means, "When do you think it's acceptable to have men with guns infringe upon the right of free movement of presumably innocent people?"

The only moral answer to that question is "Never".

That may make sense to you, but I'm sorry, it does not make sense to me. The question is pretty cut and dried. Do you or could you support any of the proposed laws listed in the poll and explained a bit in he OP? Or would not not support any of them? And why?

Guns is a topic for another thread.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Um.. wait... we've got the cart before the horse here. The question, "What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy?" when de-euphemized, means, "When do you think it's acceptable to have men with guns infringe upon the right of free movement of presumably innocent people?"

The only moral answer to that question is "Never".

There is no 'right of free movement' across borders. Period.

I'd love to know just where you even get that idea...who legislated that 'right'?

natural rights?

Ahhh...so the Palestinians were just trying to exercise their 'natural rights' in Gaza?