I'm buying a ton of scallops - and you should too

[Pogo]

Pogo I am not sure what you would like me to comment on. I have no knowledge of what is going on with scallops in the NW.

But if you want some generic thoughts on the issue here are a few. I don't know where the farmed scallops are coming from but farmed things have much less resistance to things than wild stock. I would be skeptical of conclusions on the reasons for their demise that cover such a short ecological time frame. Remember that the area you are talking about is flamingly liberal and predisposed to climate change arguments.

Most of the time with fishery issues you find scientists whose paycheck depends on maintaining a crisis atmosphere stoking the fire. They position themselves to be the only experts and therefore the only judges and juries on what should be done and unfortunately the govt grants them total control over fishery decisions under the guise of best available science. Ok, but when they turn out to be wrong they aren't fired or pay reparations but rather like the VA they are promoted and given more power. I find these people to be a little too full of themselves and their self importance and too dismissive of Mother Nature. There are way too many variables for any marine scientist to speak with any certainty. You have to have a long view on these things.

We have also had problems with oysters in Apalachicola Bay. I am not making any connection with scallops, but no one really knows why this is happening, but they are already on the rebound. Causes from BP oil spill, lack of water, over harvesting, drought, certain storms covering up the oyster beds with silt, and on and on. Everyone has an opinion, but no one knows. But all sea life goes through cycles, regulated by environmental factors that are beyond the comprehension of man today. My guess is that sometime in the next five or ten years the scallops will return in abundance. But like every one else that is just a guess.

See, I think you did just fine bringing in some expertise from, if not the scallop industry, the general fishing world, which most of us are not part of. Thanks for your insights, that's why I invited you.

I do find a bit strange the observation that when best available science doesn't predict accurately, "they aren't fired or pay reparations". Would you want that of a meterologist who said it was going to rain and it doesn't?

The other theme that seems to carry over from the other thread is the preoccupation with politics, going on the presumption that British Columbia's fishing community is "flamingly liberal and predisposed to climate change arguments." On what do you base that?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Synthaholic]

I live not too far from this area, and I read about this yesterday and have heard about it because it's so close. They are not sure what is happening. And somehow because your article says it "may" be the cause, it suddenly is? I'm all for reducing waste, and environmental safety, but why say the PH levels are the cause unless proven?

“It’s hard to say without having somebody there monitoring what’s going on. It could be food related. Maybe there were too many oysters and there was not enough food and they just starved – or something else [is happening] in the water like the acidity level,” he said. “To be frank, we don’t know a lot about it and that’s what’s scary.”

Asked if ocean acidification is to blame for oyster die-offs – and the recent collapse of scallop stocks in a Vancouver Island operation – she said: “I’m not sure yet. … We need to know if there is some local problem.”

Dr. Johannessen said waters off the coast of B.C. are getting warmer and there has been a change in the timing of zooplankton blooms, which shellfish eat. She said a shortage of food, or increased temperatures, could have put shellfish under stress, and then a slight change in pH could knock them out. Chris Harley, a zoology professor at the University of B.C., feels the same way.

“It’s an interesting puzzle. … I’m not sure what’s killed all those scallops out in the Strait of Georgia. … It might have been low pH, but I’m not sure we can say that with much confidence,” he said.

Mystery surrounds massive die-off of oysters and scallops off B.C. coast - The Globe and Mail

Lower pH values occur naturally on the West Coast...

What is Ocean Acidification?

I honestly think this is why so many are skeptical of those who say with a certainty 'this is the reason!!!' when the true reason is not known. It reminds me of the 'little boy who cried wolf" and then everyone is turned off from believing the facts when they are presented.

Lower pH doesn't "occur naturally" if it's gone from 8.1 to a 7.3 only recently. Mortality doesn't go from 50% to 90% "naturally". And you must have missed, or cherrypicked around, some of this:



and this:



and this:



and this:

Oyster die-offs in Washington state and Oregon dating back a decade have also been linked by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration researchers to acidification and rising carbon dioxide levels.

... Carbon dioxide concentrations that had been stable for as long as records were kept started to climb and, rather than correcting, they stayed high. By 2011, concentrations were verging on double the normal range, he said.

So when you try to weasel around with this:

I honestly think this is why so many are skeptical of those who say with a certainty 'this is the reason!!!' when the true reason is not known.

... it's like the die-hard (no pun intended) smoker who insists, despite all the mountain of evidence, that "the true reason is not known" why they had to be fitted with a voice box in order to talk.

Denial is not a river in Egypt -- it can appear anywhere. So my question for the denialists has always been, and continues to be:

Where the hell is the harm in cleaning up our act?

What I just peppered above are reasons TO clean it up. What are the reasons not to?

Let's say your town has a dump spot and it's up thataway up the river. One year you all notice that your lake has an oil slick on it. Turns out a local car repair shop started dumping its used motor oil up there last year. Now do you honestly need to wait for somebody to develop a micro-camera that can follow a molecule of oil all the way down before it occurs to you to just .... STOP DUMPING THE OIL??

 

[Old Rocks]

For several decades scientists have been warning that the CO2 that the ocean has been absorbing from our use of fossil fuels would change the pH levels enough to damage the food chain. Now we are seeing that happen. But the denialists are still going with the tobacco companies 'dought defense'.

 

[depotoo]

That's strange-
Scientists surveying the bottom of local bays say that there are no signs of a broad die-off of scallops this summer, as there was in 2012—and that prospects for a good scallop harvest this fall are high.“We are seeing a lot of scallops out there,” said Dr. Steve Tettlebach, a marine science professor and researcher at Long Island University-C.W Post. “There have been decent numbers in most of the spots we’ve dove on so far, and, more importantly, we’re not seeing any evidence a mass die-off like we did last year. So that is very good news.”The scientist, who has been leading surveys of the annual scallop “set” each year for more than a decade, said that there was some scallop mortality over the summer, but that it was more in line with the usual natural attrition expected, rather than the massive losses—as much as 90 percent in some places—seen last year.Dr. Tettlebach and his team conduct two annual surveys of more than 30 locations from East Hampton to Riverhead, in Gardiners Bay, the Peconics, and in tributary creeks and harbors of each. The surveys are done in the spring and again in the early fall. He said this year’s surveys will be completed by the end of the month, just before the start of the scallop harvest, which begins the first week of November in state waters.The spring surveys this year showed a fairly robust number of young-of-the-year scallops in many areas. Compared to years past, Dr. Tettlebach said, this year’s stock appears to be on par with some of the larger ones. While surveys from some areas revealed lower densities than they have in the past, others were much higher.

http://www.27east.com/news/article....o-Have-Weathered-Summer-Good-Harvest-Expected

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's God's will man. Humans have no impact on anything

Besides, what purpose do they serve?

Only thing I can think of is a vehicle to get garlic and butter to my mouth.

rw's don't care cuz all they eat is bacon.

wow i know a hell of a lot of LW's who like Bacon.....and RW's who like seafood....what the fuck is your point?....

 

[dilloduck]

Don't eat anything----it's harmful to them.

 

[HenryBHough]

If you plan to buy scallops you may want to be sure what you're buying actually are scallops. A high percentage of what's sold these days is stamped, with a stainless steel cookie-cutter like thing, out of skate wings. Texture is almost the same and the flavour is sufficiently fishy that people who haven't had the real thing in a long time don't notice the difference.

Similarly a lot of "crab" never had legs. In one restaurant a friend rejected a crab salad and challenged the owner who insisted the meat was crab - imported Polish crab. And she produced the can to prove it. Imitation crab made from Pollock. She was sincere! In fairness, English was her second language. Once it was explained she fixed the menu very quickly.

 

[Darkwind]

Lower pH doesn't "occur naturally" if it's gone from 8.1 to a 7.3 only recently. Mortality doesn't go from 50% to 90% "naturally". And you must have missed, or cherrypicked around, some of this:



and this:



and this:



and this:



So when you try to weasel around with this:



... it's like the die-hard (no pun intended) smoker who insists, despite all the mountain of evidence, that "the true reason is not known" why they had to be fitted with a voice box in order to talk.

Denial is not a river in Egypt -- it can appear anywhere. So my question for the denialists has always been, and continues to be:

Where the hell is the harm in cleaning up our act?

What I just peppered above are reasons TO clean it up. What are the reasons not to?

Let's say your town has a dump spot and it's up thataway up the river. One year you all notice that your lake has an oil slick on it. Turns out a local car repair shop started dumping its used motor oil up there last year. Now do you honestly need to wait for somebody to develop a micro-camera that can follow a molecule of oil all the way down before it occurs to you to just .... STOP DUMPING THE OIL??

I guess you did not bother to read my entire post, try the first paragraph where I say I am for environmental safety.

The issue is your first line says "it may have been caused by" and scientists don't know why it happened.

I mentioned the natural change in PH because of what one scientist said:



That natural change could have put it over the edge. And if you'll note the man whose farm is affected said his waters are pristine, clean, and its a remote area.

As far as your contention this is only recent, scientist state since the beginning of the "Industrial Revolution", the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units.

What is Ocean Acidification?

And:

Coastal upwelling systems consistently experience natural ranges in surface seawater carbon dioxide concentrations and pH that are among the most extreme in the ocean. As it upwells, older, deeper water carries high levels of carbon dioxide — the biogeochemical imprint of accumulated microbial respiration of organic matter — to the surface. This is especially true in the Pacific Ocean, where underlying waters have been isolated from the atmosphere for many decades. As a result, carbon dioxide levels in surface sea water in upwelling zones can exceed 1,000 ppm, and pH can drop as low as 7.6–7.7 (ref. 5). In comparison, typical pH values in most of the surface ocean are ~8.1, and equivalent partial pressures of carbon dioxide will not be reached in the atmosphere for a century or more6.

As this naturally acidified water ages and warms at the surface, phytoplankton blooms consume much of the inorganic carbon through photosynthesis. This leads to the rapid drawdown of carbon dioxide and an increase in pH in the upwelled waters.

Microbial biogeochemistry of coastal upwelling regimes in a changing ocean : Nature Geoscience : Nature Publishing Group

Again, your article says acidification may be the reason but they are not sure. There may be other factors as well such as natural upwelling, food, plankton blooms, etc...

As I said above, one can say ' this is the reason' and when it turns out it is not, then it will not bode well for the next case where it is a direct result of pollution. Not sure where you are getting 'weaseling' out of something because I believe it is prudent to be sure before you announce this is the reason. Thusly turning off people from knowing the real deal and not believing the truth when a inaccuracies may be presented to begin with.

All that, and you failed to address the question. Maybe I should shorten it.
What's the reason not to clean up?

If I have dirty dishes in the sink, should I not bother to wash them on the basis that their dirtiness won't prevent me from eating?

I can think of dozens for not cleaning it up UNTIL you know the exact cause.

Spend 500 billion dollars cleaning up and readjusting the PH levels in that part of the ocean, and it turns out that the problem is something other than PH and what do you have?

You have a balanced ocean that has a continuing record die-off of scallops.

Your analogy of dirty dishes is that you solve the problem by breaking the dishes into hundreds of pieces and then throw them away, and then say you solved the problem. Except that you now have no dishes and are out the money of replacing perfectly serviceable dishes.

The point trying to be made is that we must FIRST discover the actual cause before we try to fix the problem.

That really is NOT a radical position.

 

[Darkwind]

If you plan to buy scallops you may want to be sure what you're buying actually are scallops. A high percentage of what's sold these days is stamped, with a stainless steel cookie-cutter like thing, out of skate wings. Texture is almost the same and the flavour is sufficiently fishy that people who haven't had the real thing in a long time don't notice the difference.

Similarly a lot of "crab" never had legs. In one restaurant a friend rejected a crab salad and challenged the owner who insisted the meat was crab - imported Polish crab. And she produced the can to prove it. Imitation crab made from Pollock. She was sincere! In fairness, English was her second language. Once it was explained she fixed the menu very quickly.

Skate Wing with Brown Butter Recipe

 

[Toro]

Qualicum Beach? My parents are near there! I'll make a killing.

 

[bripat9643]

Due to Fukishima, I'm not eating anything out of the Pacific Ocean and probably won't for the rest of my life.

There are half a dozen nuclear subs lying on the bottom of the Atlantic that give off more radiation than Fukishima.

 

[Marianne]

It's God's will man. Humans have no impact on anything

Sure we do.

HARTFORD -- Long Island Sound lobster fishers, grappling with the 12th year of a tragic die-off that threatens the livelihood of the few left in the industry, asked state lawmakers on Wednesday to persuade neighboring New York to change the chemical it uses to attack mosquitoes.

They are convinced that the pesticide methoprene, which is put in New York storm sewer catch basins to kill mosquitoes that may carry the West Nile virus, is responsible for a late-summer lobster die-off in the western section of the Sound following the rains of Tropical Storm Irene.

"New York is the one at fault," said Roger Frate, a Darien seafood merchant and lobsterman. "This is what we know."

Michael Kalaman, a Norwalk lobster fisherman, said the people trying to make a living on the Sound know it best. "We love what we do," he said during a meeting attended by about 20 people in the Legislative Office Building. "We're the ultimate stewards of the environment."



Kalaman said the chemical is insidious. "It goes to the bottom like a fog bank and rolls around in the tide," affecting all water life from fish to micro-organisms.

During a meeting arranged by state Rep. Terry Backer, D-Stratford, executive director of the nonprofit Soundkeeper Fund, lobster fishers said last spring the harvest was robust, for a change, compared to the die-off that dates back to 1999 when there were 1,000 people in the lobster industry. Now there are fewer than 80 making their living catching the tasty crustaceans.

Two months ago, however, with record rainfall in August, a suspected storm runoff from New York containing methoprene hit the Sound and sank to the bottom of the water column, affecting lobsters the same way it attacks the shellfish's distant cousins, mosquitoes.

In a five-minute video, Kalaman, captain of the lobster boat Dark Horse, showed dozens of dead and dying lobsters, crabs and fish that were pulled from traps and tossed back into the Sound.

Because the western stretch of the Sound is constricted, there are weaker currents pulling the pesticide concentrations out toward open water to the east. Connecticut uses less-lethal bacillus thuringiensis israelensis, or bti, to control mosquitoes.

After the heavy rainfall of Tropical Storm Irene, the lobsters in the western Sound immediately began to show signs of illness, said the fishing professionals.

William Hyatt, chief of the natural resources unit of the state Department of Energy and Environmental Protection, told the meeting that the state's use of pesticides this year has been "minimal."

Backer said it would be hard for Connecticut to persuade New York to change its habits.

"I don't know if we have a way of getting at it," Backer said during the meeting, which was co-sponsored by state Sen. Bob Duff, D-Norwalk, and state Sen. Carlo Leone, D-Stamford. "I believe that there are a whole host of multiple causes," including warming water and chemicals leaching into the water after storms.

Leone and Duff said they want to gather as much information as possible so that when the General Assembly meets again in February it will be able to help an industry that was once worth $100 million a year.





N.Y. pesticide use blamed for late-summer lobster die-off - Connecticut Post

 

[Pogo]

It's God's will man. Humans have no impact on anything

Besides, what purpose do they serve?

Only thing I can think of is a vehicle to get garlic and butter to my mouth.

rw's don't care cuz all they eat is bacon.

wow i know a hell of a lot of LW's who like Bacon.....and RW's who like seafood....what the fuck is your point?....

Apparently some people wrap scallops in bacon (?)

Egregious waste of scallop if ya axe me... seems like it would overpower the subtlety. Scallops are all about subtle.

 

[Pogo]

I guess you did not bother to read my entire post, try the first paragraph where I say I am for environmental safety.

The issue is your first line says "it may have been caused by" and scientists don't know why it happened.

I mentioned the natural change in PH because of what one scientist said:



That natural change could have put it over the edge. And if you'll note the man whose farm is affected said his waters are pristine, clean, and its a remote area.

As far as your contention this is only recent, scientist state since the beginning of the "Industrial Revolution", the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units.

What is Ocean Acidification?

And:

Microbial biogeochemistry of coastal upwelling regimes in a changing ocean : Nature Geoscience : Nature Publishing Group

Again, your article says acidification may be the reason but they are not sure. There may be other factors as well such as natural upwelling, food, plankton blooms, etc...

As I said above, one can say ' this is the reason' and when it turns out it is not, then it will not bode well for the next case where it is a direct result of pollution. Not sure where you are getting 'weaseling' out of something because I believe it is prudent to be sure before you announce this is the reason. Thusly turning off people from knowing the real deal and not believing the truth when a inaccuracies may be presented to begin with.

All that, and you failed to address the question. Maybe I should shorten it.
What's the reason not to clean up?

If I have dirty dishes in the sink, should I not bother to wash them on the basis that their dirtiness won't prevent me from eating?

I can think of dozens for not cleaning it up UNTIL you know the exact cause.

Spend 500 billion dollars cleaning up and readjusting the PH levels in that part of the ocean, and it turns out that the problem is something other than PH and what do you have?

You have a balanced ocean that has a continuing record die-off of scallops.

Your analogy of dirty dishes is that you solve the problem by breaking the dishes into hundreds of pieces and then throw them away, and then say you solved the problem. Except that you now have no dishes and are out the money of replacing perfectly serviceable dishes.

The point trying to be made is that we must FIRST discover the actual cause before we try to fix the problem.

That really is NOT a radical position.

"Cleaning" (actively) isn't the point. On the contrary the point is to cease dirtying. Nature will take care of cleaning and balancing.

IOW the idea is not "fix the problem" -- it's to simply stop causing one.

 

[Pogo]

That's strange-
Scientists surveying the bottom of local bays say that there are no signs of a broad die-off of scallops this summer, as there was in 2012—and that prospects for a good scallop harvest this fall are high.“We are seeing a lot of scallops out there,” said Dr. Steve Tettlebach, a marine science professor and researcher at Long Island University-C.W Post. “There have been decent numbers in most of the spots we’ve dove on so far, and, more importantly, we’re not seeing any evidence a mass die-off like we did last year. So that is very good news.”The scientist, who has been leading surveys of the annual scallop “set” each year for more than a decade, said that there was some scallop mortality over the summer, but that it was more in line with the usual natural attrition expected, rather than the massive losses—as much as 90 percent in some places—seen last year.Dr. Tettlebach and his team conduct two annual surveys of more than 30 locations from East Hampton to Riverhead, in Gardiners Bay, the Peconics, and in tributary creeks and harbors of each. The surveys are done in the spring and again in the early fall. He said this year’s surveys will be completed by the end of the month, just before the start of the scallop harvest, which begins the first week of November in state waters.The spring surveys this year showed a fairly robust number of young-of-the-year scallops in many areas. Compared to years past, Dr. Tettlebach said, this year’s stock appears to be on par with some of the larger ones. While surveys from some areas revealed lower densities than they have in the past, others were much higher.

Scallops Appear To Have Weathered Summer, Good Harvest Expected - 27east

That's good to know but it's also 3000 miles away from the article story and a different ocean.

 

[Jughead]

I'm buying a ton of scallops - and you should too

Not a bad idea, can always put em in the freezer. I love breaded fried scallops. They are great standalone for a mid-afternoon snack, with some tartar sauce on the side.

 

[HenryBHough]

Not to worry about a scallop shortage.

When the natural ones run out and the skates have all been de-winged, the food industry will just carve "scallops" out of blocks of pure cholesterol. Nobody will notice a thing different.

 

[Pogo]

I'm buying a ton of scallops - and you should too

Not a bad idea, can always put em in the freezer. I love breaded fried scallops. They are great standalone for a mid-afternoon snack, with some tartar sauce on the side.

Eww. What a way to destroy an expensive meal.

I'll never understand the idea of breading and frying when you could broil or bake ...

 

[Jughead]

I'm buying a ton of scallops - and you should too

Not a bad idea, can always put em in the freezer. I love breaded fried scallops. They are great standalone for a mid-afternoon snack, with some tartar sauce on the side.

Eww. What a way to destroy an expensive meal.

I'll never understand the idea of breading and frying when you could broil or bake ...

It's the only way I know how to cook em...I usually fry all of my seafood, don't know why but my taste buds prefer em fried.

Hmm ... never tried, but fried scallops would probably go great with fried crawfish. Got to remember to buy some scallops the next time I get some crawfish...

 

[Pogo]

Not a bad idea, can always put em in the freezer. I love breaded fried scallops. They are great standalone for a mid-afternoon snack, with some tartar sauce on the side.

Eww. What a way to destroy an expensive meal.

I'll never understand the idea of breading and frying when you could broil or bake ...

It's the only way I know how to cook em...I usually fry all of my seafood, don't know why but my taste buds prefer em fried.

Hmm ... never tried, but fried scallops would probably go great with fried crawfish. Got to remember to buy some scallops the next time I get some crawfish...

What's your cholesterol level again?

Broil or pan-sear lightly in butter. Ditch the flour and let the flavor come through.