Illegals, Drugs, Smuggling rapidly taking control of our Nation's Southwest border.

[Iriemon]

The government can't even control the borders how will they control legal drugs and the people who use them. Legalizing drugs will only weaken America to hostile take over by rouge nations. Perhaps that's why some do want to legalize drugs.

I don't recall any rouge nations taking over the US the last time a major drug prohibition was repealed.

How will legalizing drugs subject America to takeover by rouge nations, and which rouge nations are going to take us over?

 

[catzmeow]

I was admittedly overly concise. But the gangs I was referencied in my statement are the Mexican border smuggling gangs, and I would be surprised to learn that they are not heavily involved in trafficking. Maybe you can enlighten if you contend otherwise.

So, do you plan to legalize methamphetamine, heroine, and cocaine? Just checking.

 

[Iriemon]

I was admittedly overly concise. But the gangs I was referencied in my statement are the Mexican border smuggling gangs, and I would be surprised to learn that they are not heavily involved in trafficking. Maybe you can enlighten if you contend otherwise.

So, do you plan to legalize methamphetamine, heroine, and cocaine? Just checking.

I could see a good argument for it. But I agree those are tougher cases. Start with marijuana.

 

[catzmeow]

I could see a good argument for it. But I agree those are tougher cases. Start with marijuana.

Legalize marijuana, and in the words of a gang member I worked with (who sold drugs), "there will always be something to sell, and someone to sell it to."

These drugs appeal to different people. The person who uses crack is not necessarily the same person who will use meth or pot. Thus, there will be a continued reason for the existence of these criminal groups.

Question...has legalizing pot in Amsterdam eliminated criminal enterprises distributing drugs there?

For a fact, legalizing marijuana will not impact street gang crime one bit in the U.S.

 

[Iriemon]

I could see a good argument for it. But I agree those are tougher cases. Start with marijuana.

Legalize marijuana, and in the words of a gang member I worked with (who sold drugs), "there will always be something to sell, and someone to sell it to."

These drugs appeal to different people. The person who uses crack is not necessarily the same person who will use meth or pot. Thus, there will be a continued reason for the existence of these criminal groups.

Question...has legalizing pot in Amsterdam eliminated criminal enterprises distributing drugs there?

1. Yes. You can go into a legal establishment and buy pot. You are not enriching a criminal organization wehn you do so.

2. No. Holland did not fully legalize marajuana; it is still technically illegal and importing large amounts is still a crime with heavy penalities. Thus their bastardization of legaliztion retains a criminal element to import the drug, which of course would create profits for illegal enterprises.

For a fact, legalizing marijuana will not impact street gang crime one bit in the U.S.

Again, my statement about "eliminating the gangs" was specifically addressed to the Mexican drug gangs that smuggle tons of pot into the US.

Legalizing pot would take the profit out of those gangs. Without money, their effectiveness would be severely diminished.

I agree that the typical gang in the US is probably far less dependent upon marijuana for their profits. But then again, to the extent they are, it doesn't hurt.

 

[catzmeow]

Again, my statement about "eliminating the gangs" was specifically addressed to the Mexican drug gangs that smuggle tons of pot into the US.

Legalizing pot would take the profit out of those gangs. Without money, their effectiveness would be severely diminished.

I agree that the typical gang in the US is probably far less dependent upon marijuana for their profits. But then again, to the extent they are, it doesn't hurt.

At present, most of the meth consumed in the U.S. is made in Mexico. We've made the precursor elements illegal in the U.S., so meth labs are more rare. Almost 100% of the heroin and cocaine trafficked into the U.S. come via Mexico.

Marijuana is only a small percentage of their business.

 

[Iriemon]

Again, my statement about "eliminating the gangs" was specifically addressed to the Mexican drug gangs that smuggle tons of pot into the US.

Legalizing pot would take the profit out of those gangs. Without money, their effectiveness would be severely diminished.

I agree that the typical gang in the US is probably far less dependent upon marijuana for their profits. But then again, to the extent they are, it doesn't hurt.

At present, most of the meth consumed in the U.S. is made in Mexico. We've made the precursor elements illegal in the U.S., so meth labs are more rare. Almost 100% of the heroin and cocaine trafficked into the U.S. come via Mexico.

Marijuana is only a small percentage of their business.

That is a good argument for legalizing these other drugs as well.

But marijuana accounts for 60% to the Mexican drug gang profit, according to this article.

According to U.S. and Mexican officials, some 60 percent of the profits that fuel these thugs come from just one drug, marijuana.

Stop Subsidizing Mexican Drug Gangs | DrugReporter | AlterNet

 

[ItsFairmont]

Maybe users who are caught should be charged with accomplice to murder (since, if they buy imported drugs, they ARE accomplices to murder).

 

[Iriemon]

Maybe users who are caught should be charged with accomplice to murder (since, if they buy imported drugs, they ARE accomplices to murder).

The problem is, laws that draconian never fly when it is your 16 yo kid who gets sentenced for life for smoking a joint.

There are already far to many millions of Americans in jail for a substance less harmful than alcohol. We are spending far to much money enforce the law, prosecuting them, and jailing them.

 

[catzmeow]

Stop Subsidizing Mexican Drug Gangs | DrugReporter | AlterNet

Alternet is not a reliable source given that they have a clearly declared position on legalization of marijuana. Try again. I would like to see something mainstream that relies on law enforcement data. Furthermore, I disagree that the fact that mexican drug gangs are heavily involved in distributing hard drugs in the U.S. is a strong argument in favor of legalizing those drugs.

Have you ever even known a meth addict?

 

[editec]

I heard (on front line, I think) that the Mexican drug cartels make 8 BILLION dollars from the HEMP business.

Legalize it and do NOT try to make it a taxable legal item (that will merely change the crime from smuggling and possession to bootlegging and tax evasion) , and all that profit going to criminal monsters will evaporate in about three months.

HEMP actually supports the OTHER drug smuggling in that most of the money they make is from that herb so that give them the infrastructure to import other drugs, too.

Anyone who thinks that a stoner culture in America NEEDS the Mexican cartel IF THEY CAN GROW THEIR OWN HEMP legally, simple doesn't understand anything about that herb or underground economics, either.

We hate these criminals, folks.

We hate them more than you do since their takover of that industry (starting in the 70s) has driven the cost of hemp from $20 an oz to $200+ an oz, and the QUALITY of their product is mostly K-RAP!, too,

You think we WANT to support them and the criminal in the police and justice community who BENEFIT from the continued oppression of twenty-five million Americans who smoke hemp regularly?

If America is serious about hurting these criminals it will end the prohibition on hemp COMPLETELY.

We are not this nations CASH COWS

If we legalize it, and then tax the shit out of it like we've done tobacco, all that does is continue the stupid prohibition game under a different name.

Cost to the USA for complete deciminalization?

ZERO DOLLARS

Cost to the organized crime?

$8 BILLION a year (actually, I'll bet it more than , too)

Your choice, America.

Continue this POLITICALLY MOTIVATED OPPRESSION of the hemp-culture and we continue supporting CRIMINALS

Leave us the hell alone and strike a serious blow against organized crime.

 

[editec]

I could see a good argument for it. But I agree those are tougher cases. Start with marijuana.

Legalize marijuana, and in the words of a gang member I worked with (who sold drugs), "there will always be something to sell, and someone to sell it to."

Yeah, right...losing 25 million customers won't hurt them one bit.

Are you nuts?

These drugs appeal to different people.

The person who uses crack is not necessarily the same person who will use meth or pot. Thus, there will be a continued reason for the existence of these criminal groups.

So?

Question...has legalizing pot in Amsterdam eliminated criminal enterprises distributing drugs there?

What crime? Most Dutch hemp is grown in Holland. Nobody cares!

There's no organized criminal gangs killing people in Amsterdam. Where did you get that impression?

For a fact, legalizing marijuana will not impact street gang crime one bit in the U.S.

You're clueless, Catz.

Seriously, you're obviously flailing about trying to imagine what is happening without really knowing what you're talking about.

 

[Iriemon]

Stop Subsidizing Mexican Drug Gangs | DrugReporter | AlterNet

Alternet is not a reliable source given that they have a clearly declared position on legalization of marijuana. Try again. I would like to see something mainstream that relies on law enforcement data. Furthermore, I disagree that the fact that mexican drug gangs are heavily involved in distributing hard drugs in the U.S. is a strong argument in favor of legalizing those drugs.

You asserted marijuana was only a small percentage of their business. I researched and posted a cite saying otherwise.

You back up your claim. If you can't we can take your unsupported assertion for what it is worth.

Have you ever even known a meth addict?

Not an addict. Have you ever known an alcohol addict?

 

[catzmeow]

Seriously, you're obviously flailing about trying to imagine what is happening without really knowing what you're talking about.

Dude, I was dealing with Sinaloan Cartel members and their wars with our local street gangs before most Americans even knew that cartel existed (and I'd say 90% of Americans still don't).

Right now, I have a desk full of cartel shit seized from drug raids. My son and I were looking at it this morning during "take your kid to work" day.

So, seriously...from your pedestal in Maine, where I doubt you even deal with Mexican drug cartel members, EVER, give me a fucking break. You are relying on leftist sources with no practical experience on this topic whatsoever.

When was the last time you were even face to face with an actual Mexican?

 

[catzmeow]

You asserted marijuana was only a small percentage of their business. I researched and posted a cite saying otherwise.

Alternet was not a reliable source. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL CLAIM THAT LEGALIZING POT WOULD CAUSE GANGS TO CEASE TO EXIST. Fucking prove it, with mainstream sources.

Not an addict.

Then you have no idea what the actual ramifications of legalizing that drug would be.

 

[editec]

Seriously, you're obviously flailing about trying to imagine what is happening without really knowing what you're talking about.

Dude, I was dealing with Sinaloan Cartel members and their wars with our local street gangs before most Americans even knew that cartel existed (and I'd say 90% of Americans still don't).

Right now, I have a desk full of cartel shit seized from drug raids. My son and I were looking at it this morning during "take your kid to work" day.

So, seriously...from your pedestal in Maine, where I doubt you even deal with Mexican drug cartel members, EVER, give me a fucking break. You are relying on leftist sources with no practical experience on this topic whatsoever.

When was the last time you were even face to face with an actual Mexican?

I don't need to KNOW a Mexican drug thug to understand that taking the profit out of hemp will hurt their businesses, Catz.

They'll sell something else, you say?

No shit. They're selling that something else right now, too.

But they'll lose their number ONE CASH COW if we legalize this harmless herb.

 

[jillian]

why would anyone encourage this racist moron?

 

[Iriemon]

You asserted marijuana was only a small percentage of their business. I researched and posted a cite saying otherwise.

Alternet was not a reliable source. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MADE THE ORIGINAL CLAIM THAT LEGALIZING POT WOULD CAUSE GANGS TO CEASE TO EXIST. Fucking prove it, with mainstream sources.

FALSE I NEVER MADE THE ORIGINAL CLAIM THAT LEGALIZING POT WOULD CAUSE GANGS TO CEASE TO EXIST. IF YOU NEED TO SHOUT ABOUT WHAT I CLAIMED IT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF YOU WERE ACCURATE.

WHAT I SAID WAS:

"Legalization of drugs would provide many benefits, not the least of which would be eliminating the profits of the narco gangs." and "Legalize and eliminate profit from the equation. End of gangs."

If the simple but undeniable logic that by eliminating the profit from their activity is not enough to prove my assertion, you need only look at the effect of legalization on the Chicago gangs in the 1920s which fueled their activities by smuggling.

Other source for marijuana being a key component of the Mexican gangs:

According to U.S. and Mexican officials, some 60 percent of the profits that fuel Mexican narcotrafficking come from just one drug: marijuana. Although such estimates are inherently imprecise, there is no doubt that marijuana is the cash cow that makes these gangs the powerful, dangerous force they are -- both in Mexico and in the 230 U.S. cities where cartels are thought to operate. The chief of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration's Mexico and Central America Section recently told the New York Times that marijuana is the "king crop" for Mexican cartels, because it "consistently sustains its marketability and profitability."

Opposing Views: OPINION: Only Way to Stop Mexico Drug Gangs is to Legalize Marijuana

Who'd have thought that by the time his predecessor took office, otherwise conservative officials would be considering another way of smoking out a new and growing threat to Americans' safety: Mexican drug cartels, whose profits are largely derived from the illegal smuggling and sale of marijuana.

... "Well, I don't," said Goddard [Arizon's AG]. "But I do think the debate needs to go forward. We need to find a better way to handle ... Right now, the item that's fueling the violent cartels, the murders in Mexico, the cartel wars that are going on right now that have resulted in over 1,000 deaths this year, I think we need to take a very aggressive stand on that and marijuana is the number one producer for the cartels. Sixty to 70 percent of their gross profits comes from marijuana. So, I think we need to look very hard at something we haven't looked at for years."

The Raw Story | Arizona AG: Marijuana legalization could curb Mexican drug cartel warfare

If that is not good enough for you, sorry. Others can decide for themselves whether they choose to accept the cites I've given versus your unsubstantiate blather that marijuana is only a small percentage of their business. Or research for themselves. It's up to them.

Not an addict. Have you ever known an alcohol addict?

Then you have no idea what the actual ramifications of legalizing that drug would be.

Your debate style is you get to ask questions you expect me to answer, but you don't have to answer my questions?

I suppose that would make it easier for you to think your arguments are somehow more persuasive.

I am aware that drugs ruin lives. By far and away the greatest life ruining drug is in fact alcohol. If you don't count cigarettes. So do you support a return to prohibition?

You know a meth addict. I'm sorry to hear that. You therefore have tacitly admitted that prohibition policies have failed at preventing this problem and people getting meth if they want it.

Why do you support a system you acknowedge implicitly has been a failure?

With legalization at least people who use these drugs would be getting regulated drugs both in terms of stregnth and purity and therefore be less likely to overdose. They could also be warned of the dangers of use and their purchase of the drug wouldn't be fueling the criminal enterprise that supplies it. Maybe instead of spending $30-40 billion a year on drug enforcement and how much more on incarceration the Govt could then afford to provide a decent treatment system to people who want and need it.

 

[007]

Seriously, you're obviously flailing about trying to imagine what is happening without really knowing what you're talking about.

Dude, I was dealing with Sinaloan Cartel members and their wars with our local street gangs before most Americans even knew that cartel existed (and I'd say 90% of Americans still don't).

Right now, I have a desk full of cartel shit seized from drug raids. My son and I were looking at it this morning during "take your kid to work" day.

So, seriously...from your pedestal in Maine, where I doubt you even deal with Mexican drug cartel members, EVER, give me a fucking break. You are relying on leftist sources with no practical experience on this topic whatsoever.

When was the last time you were even face to face with an actual Mexican?

I don't need to KNOW a Mexican drug thug to understand that taking the profit out of hemp will hurt their businesses, Catz.

They'll sell something else, you say?

No shit. They're selling that something else right now, too.

But they'll lose their number ONE CASH COW if we legalize this harmless herb.

I agree. Legalize pot. It's less dangerous than alcohol.

How about a what if.... what if we criminalize booze and legalize pot?

I'd go for that. But that wouldn't solve anything.

 

[editec]

If the simple but undeniable logic that by eliminating the profit from their activity is not enough to prove my assertion, you need only look at the effect of legalization on the Chicago gangs in the 1920s which fueled their activities by smuggling.

Hmmmm...anyone notice that immediately AFTER legalizing alcohol America just aHAD to create still another prohibition?

What was REALLY driving that?

I personally think one of the motivators was to give all those freaking prohibitionists something to do.

Not the only motivator, but certainly their influence in government (because they ARE government) must have been powerful.

13 year of alcohol prohibition and we realized our mistake.

76 years of hemp prohibition and we're STILL anamored with that stupid immoral anti liberty system of power and control and taxation by creating crime where NONE exists.

Anyone who continues to support the prohition of hemp is a forking tool or a fool.

Wake the hell up.

This insane belief system (which is entirely unsupportable from the facts about hemp, incidently) have allowed an extreme dangerous criminal foreign element to destroy the quality of life in the American SW.

God damned fools!


America is reaping what it has sown, right now.

Base the law on a LIE and CRIMINALS benefit from it.