If you cannot love an eternal torment god

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by rodgertutt, Aug 7, 2008.

  1. rodgertutt
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    rodgertutt Member

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    If you cannot love an eternal torment god (without links)

    For the first 500 years of the Christian church, universal salvation was the prevailing doctrine of a large majority of the Christian church. To find the evidence that this is so, type into Google
    books prevailing

    Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

    The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

    The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were reading the Bible in its original language.This online book also explains why and how this changed.

    Up until now, after reading this post, many believers in eternal torment have said something like, “I truly sympathize with your sufferings, but it’s what the Bible says that matters, not whether or not it makes you suffer.” That’s why I want to say right at the outset that all of the links referred to but not posted here show that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.

    I’m 69 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering, including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

    This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever.

    You can Google up many similar testimonies by typing in
    tentmaker hells fruit (small case letters)

    If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can Google up THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

    THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES (Google it up)

    THE GOD THAT CALVINIST AND ARMINIAN ETERNAL TORMENTORS PROFESS TO LOVE

    The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

    The god that Arminian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

    “Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

    The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

    The god that Calvinistic eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

    "I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)

    And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

    To read a description of eternal torment combination Calv-Arminianism Google up
    ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST

    Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering.

    What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering (Arminian), or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinistic).

    Thank God the Bible does not teach such insane ideas! Yes, God is just but He is not justice personified. However, God is Love personified. That is why He will temper all of His administrating of justice only to be for the good of the individual being judged.

    Here is what the God that universal transformationists love and worship with complete abandon will do. He will complete the process of salvation for the first fruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. Then He will complete the process of salvation for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

    Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead to guarantee that any necessary "kolasis aionian" (age-during corrective chastisement) will be 100% effective in changing wrong attitudes. All acts of sin have been forgiven for everyone. Attitudes cannot be forgiven. Attitudes must change. This is what the lake of fire which is the second death will do. It will last no longer than God sees is good for everyone involved. Google up
    lake of fire eby

    You can also Google up good articles on this subject by typing in
    kolasis aionian

    Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of TENTMAKER (Google it up), and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

    This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, and it gives me great joy to keep learning that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 69

    I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. His name is Charles Slagle. He responds to the question, "Which view of salvation is true?"

    You can Google up his answer by typing in ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
     
  2. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    i'm sorry you have gone thru this pain....i had a similar experience when younger, and a Christian friend said that this was the lie of the Devil, to make me think and feel God would not accept me and my failures, and punish me forever for them....when Christ already overcame this for me....

    i am not certain this is precisely what you are hitting on, but it is somewhat similar....


    Care
     
  3. rodgertutt
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    rodgertutt Member

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    Your experience is definitely similar to mine Care4all.

    My testimony contains information that, according to the many entries in my guest book, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, is helping many people. My guest book can be accessed towards the bottom of my front page on my site.

    Google up HELL IS NOT ENDLESS

    My guest book only holds 150 messages. Then the oldest ones are automatically deleted to make room for the newest ones.

    Also see the testimonies at TENTMAKER. Google up
    TENTMAKER VISITOR COMMENTS

    Also Google up tentmaker hells fruit

    SO MUCH SUFFERING is caused by the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell, that it gives me great pleasure to guide people to the evidence that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches universal salvation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

    We agree with fundamentalist Christians that we should not believe things that go against Biblical teaching. We don’t.

    I'm 69, and I am acquainted with many people who are, or were in various stages of nervous breakdown over their inability to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel, they are afraid of what God might do to them after they are raised from the dead for not being able to love Him. The information in my testimony has helped many of these people.

    I myself suffered a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) because of my inability to love an endless-hell god. I’m 69 now.

    If any member or surfer on forums is suffering because they are unable to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God is going to let any creature suffer forever, they can Google up the search engine at the top of the TENTMAKER front page. Just type in a key word or phrase from each argument or scripture passages and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilationist doctrines.
    Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages.

    Most fundamentalist Christians are not even aware that there are two sides to the argument about what the Bible teaches.

    I have exhaustively studied both sides myself. This debate always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate.

    If your readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever, then they should keep believing that.
    But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

    I am a Concordant Christian. I have read and recorded gleanings into my more than four thousand page personal journal from most of the back issues of UNSEARCHABLE RICHES that has been published back to 1909. Every argument that I have ever heard against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been repeatedly dealt with in these magazines.
    Largely, but not exclusively, because of the contents in these magazines, I am convinced that the evidence in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation is irrefutable. That is why the argument that we should teach endless suffering in hell just in case it might be true is unacceptable to me.

    IMHO the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe in "eternal suffering" for anyone and not have a nervous breakdown thinking about it.

    Why not check out the reasons why we believe the Bible teaches universal transformation by typing into Google THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD EBY

    I also would like to leave you with one more thing. I am going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.

    You can Google up his testimony by typing in ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST

    It may begin to change the thinking of some people.

    God bless you in your study!
    From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
     

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