If We Erase The Christian Basis Of Governance, Then What Do We Unleash?

[Rikurzhen]

I'm hoping that this is a fun topic. A century ago G.K. Chesterton observed:

“The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man.” ​

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven. This God inspired notion has informed our governing philosophy ever since we began as a nation.

The evidence of reality however is abundantly clear that we are not all made equal, so what higher principle can we turn to to guide us and prevent us from a utilitarian reform of our laws and customs which recognizes and enshrines what the real world is SCREAMING at us - we are not all equal?

We have past experiments where legislatures have tried to impose the will of man over reality, such as when the Indiana Legislature came close to passing a bill legislating a method to derive pi to a value of 3.2. Any engineer will tell you that if forced to use an imagined value for pi while building a bridge or an airplane, the product will be unstable. Man's will can't override reality. Disaster follows.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality? Some will try to argue that appealing to the nature as a model for how society should be constructed is fallacious thinking but what then in its stead? We see the negative ramifications today of a world where we treat all people as equal when they in fact are not, but when God's command is being honored, who are mere men to know better and so we suffer through.

Once the foundational beliefs which created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are shown to be false, how shall we proceed to reform society? The problem with merely appealing to the Religion of Liberalism is that it's unmoored from independently derived higher principles - it is actually formed by appealing to Christian foundational beliefs. How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created. We no longer have to fear God's displeasure because we no longer cling to silly superstitions like "we are all created equal."

 

[JakeStarkey]

The foundations of Christian belief are not found in the far right social conservative denominations is what you forgot to post.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If We Erase The Christian Basis Of Governance, Then What Do We Unleash?

There is no 'Christian basis of government.'

Our government is secular, not religious – indeed, our freedoms flourish in spite of the detrimental aspects of Christianity, such as the arrogance and propensity to exclude those perceived to be of the 'wrong religion'; hence Article VI and the First Amendment to the US Constitution, to guard against that arrogance and propensity to exclude.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm just curious when Right Wingers are going to listen to Jesus' admonition to help the poor, give up wealth and treat people the way you want to be treated.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The notion alone of a 'Christian basis of government' is an example of Christian arrogance and hostility toward Americans who practice a different religion and those free from faith.

 

[Rikurzhen]

The notion alone of a 'Christian basis of government' is an example of Christian arrogance and hostility toward Americans who practice a different religion and those free from faith.

Who gives a fuck? Reality and history don't get washed away because you want to be appease people's delusions. The Declaration of Independence clearly states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
​

The basis upon which America was established is plainly expressed. The America you know is built upon a Christian foundation of understanding man's place in God's universe.

Now the question before us is what path we take on the question of human equality when God's commands on this factor are erased. Nature SHOWS us that humans are not equal, so on what basis do we continue the pantomime - there's no more appealing to God's commands.

 

[guno]

The notion alone of a 'Christian basis of government' is an example of Christian arrogance and hostility toward Americans who practice a different religion and those free from faith.

Thankfully their time is up in America

 

[billyerock1991]

The notion alone of a 'Christian basis of government' is an example of Christian arrogance and hostility toward Americans who practice a different religion and those free from faith.

Who gives a fuck? Reality and history don't get washed away because you want to be appease people's delusions. The Declaration of Independence clearly states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
​

The basis upon which America was established is plainly expressed. The America you know is built upon a Christian foundation of understanding man's place in God's universe.

Now the question before us is what path we take on the question of human equality when God's commands on this factor are erased. Nature SHOWS us that humans are not equal, so on what basis do we continue the pantomime - there's no more appealing to God's commands.

this phrase id not based on christian values "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator" what the founding fathers was saying is everybody is equal and the phrase "are endowed by their Creator" they're speaking in a general term meaning if you believe in god or your father who created you with your mother ... creator does not always mean god ... so your assumption that they are speaking about god is wrong

 

[Seawytch]

I'm sorry Riku but your OP wasn't very clear. Here's what I got out of it...you are proposing that a secular government will lead to...something because you don't think humans are equal and it is only Christianity that makes us "believe" humans are equal? Is that the gist?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The notion alone of a 'Christian basis of government' is an example of Christian arrogance and hostility toward Americans who practice a different religion and those free from faith.

Who gives a fuck? Reality and history don't get washed away because you want to be appease people's delusions. The Declaration of Independence clearly states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
​

The basis upon which America was established is plainly expressed. The America you know is built upon a Christian foundation of understanding man's place in God's universe.

Now the question before us is what path we take on the question of human equality when God's commands on this factor are erased. Nature SHOWS us that humans are not equal, so on what basis do we continue the pantomime - there's no more appealing to God's commands.

The DoI is NOT the "basis upon which America was established". It was a the basis for the separation from England. The Constitution is the basis upon which America is established.

Furthermore for someone who allegedly "studied religions" you are profoundly ignorant of them, Pastor Rikurzhen. You made this allegation in your OP;

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven.

The part you don't comprehend is the term "judged". The Old Testament is made up of the Laws of Moses. The concept of equality under the law has nothing to do with who is doing the judging rather than that the LAW should apply equally to everyone.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality?

Nothing whatsoever is "crushing into dust" the concept that we are all EQUAL UNDER THE LAW.

How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created.

Society does not need to be "reformed" in your arrogant image, Pastor Rikurzhen. You are not any "better and wiser than other men". Instead you are ill informed and rather stupid.

You are utterly clueless because you don't understand even the most basic principles upon which this nation was founded and how they were reached by the Founding Fathers.

You are just lucky that there won't be any "reformed society" based upon "wisdom" because if there were you would be amongst those "judged" to have the very least of all and barred from any position of authority over your "betters".

So you should be thankful that equality under the law means that your basic rights are not infringed the way you want to deprive others of their rights.

 

[candycorn]

Still waiting for proof that people are created unequally...

 

[chikenwing]

I'm just curious when Right Wingers are going to listen to Jesus' admonition to help the poor, give up wealth and treat people the way you want to be treated.

Just curious when are you going to come up withy new and truthful talking points,Conservatives out give by large margins as to compared to people like yourself,you know people that repeat lies as truths.

 

[chikenwing]

The notion alone of a 'Christian basis of government' is an example of Christian arrogance and hostility toward Americans who practice a different religion and those free from faith.

Thankfully their time is up in America

Hate much? and who is they ? people not like you?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Still waiting for proof that people are created unequally...

I'm not some mystical healer who can bring sight to the willfully liberal. All it takes is to open one's eyes.

 

[BlindBoo]

Demons of course........Jezzzzzzzz.

Then they went:

One common misuse of the Declaration of Independence is to argue that it states that our rights come from God and, therefore, there are no legitimate interpretations of the rights in the Constitution that would be contrary to God. The first problem is that the Declaration of Independence refers to a “Creator” and not the Christian “God” meant by people making the argument. The second problem is that the “rights” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence are “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” — none of which are “rights” discussed in the Constitution.

Finally, the Declaration of Independence also makes it clear that governments created by humanity derive their powers from the consent of the governed, not from any gods. This is why the Constitution does not make any mention of any gods.


Declaration of Independence Christianity Myth

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm hoping that this is a fun topic. A century ago G.K. Chesterton observed:

“The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man.” ​

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven. This God inspired notion has informed our governing philosophy ever since we began as a nation.

The evidence of reality however is abundantly clear that we are not all made equal, so what higher principle can we turn to to guide us and prevent us from a utilitarian reform of our laws and customs which recognizes and enshrines what the real world is SCREAMING at us - we are not all equal?

We have past experiments where legislatures have tried to impose the will of man over reality, such as when the Indiana Legislature came close to passing a bill legislating a method to derive pi to a value of 3.2. Any engineer will tell you that if forced to use an imagined value for pi while building a bridge or an airplane, the product will be unstable. Man's will can't override reality. Disaster follows.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality? Some will try to argue that appealing to the nature as a model for how society should be constructed is fallacious thinking but what then in its stead? We see the negative ramifications today of a world where we treat all people as equal when they in fact are not, but when God's command is being honored, who are mere men to know better and so we suffer through.

Once the foundational beliefs which created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are shown to be false, how shall we proceed to reform society? The problem with merely appealing to the Religion of Liberalism is that it's unmoored from independently derived higher principles - it is actually formed by appealing to Christian foundational beliefs. How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created. We no longer have to fear God's displeasure because we no longer cling to silly superstitions like "we are all created equal."

Since the Constitution has codified the principles of equal rights, who needs God?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm hoping that this is a fun topic. A century ago G.K. Chesterton observed:

“The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man.” ​

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven. This God inspired notion has informed our governing philosophy ever since we began as a nation.

The evidence of reality however is abundantly clear that we are not all made equal, so what higher principle can we turn to to guide us and prevent us from a utilitarian reform of our laws and customs which recognizes and enshrines what the real world is SCREAMING at us - we are not all equal?

We have past experiments where legislatures have tried to impose the will of man over reality, such as when the Indiana Legislature came close to passing a bill legislating a method to derive pi to a value of 3.2. Any engineer will tell you that if forced to use an imagined value for pi while building a bridge or an airplane, the product will be unstable. Man's will can't override reality. Disaster follows.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality? Some will try to argue that appealing to the nature as a model for how society should be constructed is fallacious thinking but what then in its stead? We see the negative ramifications today of a world where we treat all people as equal when they in fact are not, but when God's command is being honored, who are mere men to know better and so we suffer through.

Once the foundational beliefs which created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are shown to be false, how shall we proceed to reform society? The problem with merely appealing to the Religion of Liberalism is that it's unmoored from independently derived higher principles - it is actually formed by appealing to Christian foundational beliefs. How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created. We no longer have to fear God's displeasure because we no longer cling to silly superstitions like "we are all created equal."

How many people do you actually know who believe that all Men are equal only because God told them so?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm hoping that this is a fun topic. A century ago G.K. Chesterton observed:

“The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man.” ​

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven. This God inspired notion has informed our governing philosophy ever since we began as a nation.

The evidence of reality however is abundantly clear that we are not all made equal, so what higher principle can we turn to to guide us and prevent us from a utilitarian reform of our laws and customs which recognizes and enshrines what the real world is SCREAMING at us - we are not all equal?

We have past experiments where legislatures have tried to impose the will of man over reality, such as when the Indiana Legislature came close to passing a bill legislating a method to derive pi to a value of 3.2. Any engineer will tell you that if forced to use an imagined value for pi while building a bridge or an airplane, the product will be unstable. Man's will can't override reality. Disaster follows.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality? Some will try to argue that appealing to the nature as a model for how society should be constructed is fallacious thinking but what then in its stead? We see the negative ramifications today of a world where we treat all people as equal when they in fact are not, but when God's command is being honored, who are mere men to know better and so we suffer through.

Once the foundational beliefs which created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are shown to be false, how shall we proceed to reform society? The problem with merely appealing to the Religion of Liberalism is that it's unmoored from independently derived higher principles - it is actually formed by appealing to Christian foundational beliefs. How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created. We no longer have to fear God's displeasure because we no longer cling to silly superstitions like "we are all created equal."

Why do so many Conservatives often use the Bible to argue AGAINST giving gay Americans equal rights?

 

[Rikurzhen]

I'm hoping that this is a fun topic. A century ago G.K. Chesterton observed:

“The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man.” ​

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven. This God inspired notion has informed our governing philosophy ever since we began as a nation.

The evidence of reality however is abundantly clear that we are not all made equal, so what higher principle can we turn to to guide us and prevent us from a utilitarian reform of our laws and customs which recognizes and enshrines what the real world is SCREAMING at us - we are not all equal?

We have past experiments where legislatures have tried to impose the will of man over reality, such as when the Indiana Legislature came close to passing a bill legislating a method to derive pi to a value of 3.2. Any engineer will tell you that if forced to use an imagined value for pi while building a bridge or an airplane, the product will be unstable. Man's will can't override reality. Disaster follows.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality? Some will try to argue that appealing to the nature as a model for how society should be constructed is fallacious thinking but what then in its stead? We see the negative ramifications today of a world where we treat all people as equal when they in fact are not, but when God's command is being honored, who are mere men to know better and so we suffer through.

Once the foundational beliefs which created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are shown to be false, how shall we proceed to reform society? The problem with merely appealing to the Religion of Liberalism is that it's unmoored from independently derived higher principles - it is actually formed by appealing to Christian foundational beliefs. How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created. We no longer have to fear God's displeasure because we no longer cling to silly superstitions like "we are all created equal."

Since the Constitution has codified the principles of equal rights, who needs God?

If the Constitution codified that people hop around on one leg, how viable is it to enforce such a silly notion? We are not created equal, we are not equal, nature has made us unequal, there is no godly command that we have been created equal. Why should we pretend to adhere to the silly notion that we are equal and have equal rights? Why not align our governing principles with the reality of life?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm hoping that this is a fun topic. A century ago G.K. Chesterton observed:

“The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man.” ​

Christians have this quaint belief that God created Adam and Eve and that all of mankind is equal in the eyes of God. A King and a Pauper shall be judged equally by God once in Heaven. This God inspired notion has informed our governing philosophy ever since we began as a nation.

The evidence of reality however is abundantly clear that we are not all made equal, so what higher principle can we turn to to guide us and prevent us from a utilitarian reform of our laws and customs which recognizes and enshrines what the real world is SCREAMING at us - we are not all equal?

We have past experiments where legislatures have tried to impose the will of man over reality, such as when the Indiana Legislature came close to passing a bill legislating a method to derive pi to a value of 3.2. Any engineer will tell you that if forced to use an imagined value for pi while building a bridge or an airplane, the product will be unstable. Man's will can't override reality. Disaster follows.

So we have a society where the great majority of people believe in God and the belief that God created us all equally. Once that belief is crushed into dust, why on Earth would we close our eyes to what nature is telling us about human inequality? Some will try to argue that appealing to the nature as a model for how society should be constructed is fallacious thinking but what then in its stead? We see the negative ramifications today of a world where we treat all people as equal when they in fact are not, but when God's command is being honored, who are mere men to know better and so we suffer through.

Once the foundational beliefs which created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are shown to be false, how shall we proceed to reform society? The problem with merely appealing to the Religion of Liberalism is that it's unmoored from independently derived higher principles - it is actually formed by appealing to Christian foundational beliefs. How do we justify the notion of one man, one vote when some men are better and wiser than other men? The rational course is to acknowledge this reality and construct a society reflective of what nature has created. We no longer have to fear God's displeasure because we no longer cling to silly superstitions like "we are all created equal."

Since the Constitution has codified the principles of equal rights, who needs God?

If the Constitution codified that people hop around on one leg, how viable is it to enforce such a silly notion? We are not created equal, we are not equal, nature has made us unequal, there is no godly command that we have been created equal. Why should we pretend to adhere to the silly notion that we are equal and have equal rights? Why not align our governing principles with the reality of life?

Most people are apparently smarter than you are.