If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

[Jarlaxle]

Spamming more from a special interest Washington DC lobbyist group.....

Not an argument, and most of what they say is wrong.

For example, yes it is subject to fluctuations of the market. Fact: over the 30 year period, they have made substantially more than Social Security, as the numbers I posted prove.

Good, ignore inflation risk, the fact it doesn't serve low income people well, and the fact that it isn't based on being basic protection.

That's a lie. Sorry, you lied.... again.

A low income person, making just $15,000 a year, will put into Social Security, over $174 a month into Social Security. For that money, they will earn at retirement $800 a month.

Impoverishment for the rest of their life.

If you take that same amount, $174 a month, and place it into an average growth stock mutual fund, or set of mutual funds, they will have $400,000 to $600,000. Enough for a comfortable basic living. By far better than $800 a month.

Now which plan, the left-wing social security plan, or the right-wing capitalist plan, is better for the impoverished?

By far, ours is.

Oh dear lord, see, this is the funny thing, social security is a safe guard, you want people to put shit into mutual funds which are unstable, and make ridiculous assumptions. You want seniors and people not very educated in the workings of investment and the complexities to attempt to do the stupid bullshit you're proposing. How many seniors on social security vote republican, and how many vote democrat? Social security is complemented by programs like food stamps, medicaid, medicare, etc.. Of course, you probably want to trash those to. Luckily, your views are so out of touch with reality they're meaningless to actual political discussion.

Again, you are the one making assumptions. You already ruined the lives of the elderly. They are doomed to impoverishment until they die. You screwed the hell out of them, and they are finished. There is no solution for them. They just live and die, in social impoverishment that you gave them.

It's the next generation I'm trying to help.

And unlike your brainless screwball claims, my mutual funds have done fantastic. Huge returns on my investment. You can't stand that? Fine. Stay poor. But don't be surprised if I convince as many as possible to join me in making money for retirement.

If you actually owned any mutual funds you would know what a disaster they were when Republican deregulation brought down the economy in 2008-9. I bet you can't even explain what they are.

I took a hit in 2008-9. Of course, I expected to...and bought MORE at the time! (Yes, thank you, I will HAPPILY buy stocks on sale.) My portfolio has more than recovered since then.

 

[Jarlaxle]

But YOU don't gamble over 40 years! You invest in equities from your 20s to 40s and obviously accumulations.
There have been MORE UPS that Downs obviously I guess you idiots don't think about that or else THERE would never be a DJI!
Then from your 40s to 60s... moving more from high risk securities to lower risk investments and finally at retirement most of
it in highly secure investments. I mean you being a government lover why not have treasury bills?
See that is why if WE the vast majority of people had been GIVEN the CHOICE see you keep referring to "privatizing" it was always
going to be a CHOICE... i.e. I would have the POWER to choose... Do I want to tell SS where to put my money when I'm in my 20s i.e. high risk great appreciation, then in my 40s tell SS to put in lower risk and then retire all in to secured.. OR if I didn't want to choose that the traditional SS. EITHER WAY I would have the choice. NOT as it is now.
If I'd had the choice when I first started SS deductions in the 60s, today I'd had a million dollars in SS. Of which maybe half would be used in retirement, 1/4 medical bills and the rest a nest egg for my SON and his family to build on!

BUT selfish ignorant people like you without the benefit of the FACTS think privatizing was all investing in the market and that was the stupid ass meme put out by ignorant selfish people!

Typical right wing stupidity and brain washed regurgitation. The stock market IS a gambling casino......The zero-sum syndrome is very applicable...for every "gained" dollar from someone, there is a "lost" dollar by someone else.

Who took it in the gut during this latest stock market plunge? Holders of 401K plans.

No matter how many times you regurgitate that, it is still a lie!

 

[Mac1958]

An 11% correction - we could have used more - and they're having a freakin' stroke.

Zero credibility, none.
.

 

[Jarlaxle]

"
Right now, Social Security provides a guaranteed income, paying benefits every month for life, with increases for inflation. After adjusting for risk, Social Security has a rate of return equal to that of any mix of financial assets in private accounts.

Bullshit. Social Security provides a benefit that will-just, just barely-let you live. (The maximum-waiting to collect until 70 and maxed contributions-is just over $40,000/year.)

And risk must be taken into account, because stock market returns are never guaranteed! As we've seen in recent years, returns can fluctuate wildly. One need only be reminded that between 2001 and 2003, the NASDAQ lost 75% of its value. And the market took a major downturn again in 2008. Nest eggs can disappear in an instant - and take months, if not years, to rebuild.

Which is why (yet again) if you are nearing retirement, you take money OUT of stocks and put it in different investments!

With privatization, some might do well, many might lose - but our society would lose the benefit of the sound, basic income security provided by Social Security retirement, disability and survivor benefits."

That will happen, regardless. The system simply is not sustainable.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Anyone who points at a normal stock market correction as evidence that it's a bad place to invest for retirement is either (a) ignorant, (b) lying, or (c) both.
.

You missed one: (d) stupid.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

Well, no shit.
If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

The stock market continued a period of volatility on Monday. Media reports sounded the alarm as the DOW opened 1,000 points down and other indexes took huge hits, only to climb back up a bit later in the day. While that performance, which had some people calling it black Monday, may have knocked a good deal of money out of people’s 401(k) retirement accounts, Social Security benefits remain by and large untouched by such fluctuations.

Some Republicans, however, are interested in changing that.

In June, presidential candidate Jeb Bush said that he thinks the next president will have to try to privatize Social Security. Others have gotten behind the idea as well: Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) drafted a plan in 2013 that included partial privatization, and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) is in favor of using private accounts. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has included privatization in his budget blueprints.

The market drop, and ones before, expose the dangers of such a plan, which usually entails diverting some or all of the money workers contribute to Social Security through their paychecks into private investment accounts. That would put individuals in charge of making smart enough investment choices in the market to make big enough returns to support themselves in retirement.

But the reality is that’s not within reach for most individual people. During a market rout like Monday’s, many people will panic and sell. “We know a lot of people do what economists say is irrational, they sell at a low point,” said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center on Economic and Policy Research. Research shows that the best thing to do during a downturn is to hold out if possible. But that’s not how most people will react. “People see something like this and go, ‘I better get out,'” Baker said. “When they see the market start to go up, they say, ‘I better buy in,’ and then they’ve lost a lot.”

This is one of the big problems with privatizing Social Security: individual investors don’t tend to be that savvy in chasing higher returns. “A lot of people make wrong decisions,” Baker said. This is even true when it comes to retirement planning: Many people leave money on the table with their 401(k)s by not taking advantage of employer matches or cash out when they switch jobs and incur taxes. The point of Social Security contributions is to make saving for retirement mandatory, he pointed out. But “if you do that and then just tell people to do whatever you want [with the money], then a lot of people will make mistakes and end up with not very much in retirement.”

On a larger level, putting people’s Social Security contributions into private accounts makes them far more exposed to the irrationality of the market. “What’s beautiful about Social Security is that in the long the return workers get on contributions is linked to productivity growth and wage growth,” said Monique Morrissey, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute. “Whereas markets are notoriously volatile and often behave in ways that are not based on the fundamental strength and weakness of the economy.”

Wait until the government runs out of money....

 

[nat4900]

NO that is NOT true for every gain there is a loser! DUMMY! If there were there never would be then over 100 million adults are invested in securities.

Speaking of dummies, you DO realize that the market is a world-wide one, don't you?

 

[boedicca]

The OP is spewing nonsense.

Over a lifetime a properly BALANCED portfolio will yield far better returns than the Fed's phony b'loney lockbox. The typical pattern after a correction is that portfolios recover in 4 months.

SS for truly indigent people is WELFARE. It would be far better for the vast majority to control their own retirement investments (similar to the program in Chile), while reserving a WELFARE program for destitute seniors. Having personally owned accounts would result in LESS DESTITUTE seniors. There is the added benefit that the accounts could be passed along to heirs instead of squandered by the government on crap.

You assume everyone would balance a portfolio properly.

Good grief..... .Then that is THEIR fault.

Why should arrogant people like you, punish people like us, because someone somewhere might not invest wisely?

You would never apply that to any other situation. Someone might not drive their car safely and wisely, and may hurt someone. We should ban people from having cars. No one has a car, no one will run anyone else over.

Absolute stupidity.

And it's not like investing wisely is super difficult. Look at how long the mutual fund has been open. 1 year.... skip it. 10 years or longer... ok.

Look at what the average return on the investment was over the last 10 to 20 years. -2.8%... that's bad. Skip it.
6.8% growth... that's good. Ok.

Which part of this is so freaking difficult that you left-winger can't possibly do it on your own? Which of these concepts do you need a government funded college course to help you with?

Actually, the moronic OP's ideology does support preventing people from making tons of personal decisions ranging from what the ingest...to where they live...to the features their care has to have...to what benefits their health care should provide...and on and one.

He's a Nanny Stater.

Yeah... which is another way of saying he's a total spineless wimp. That's what leftism is all about "I don't want to have to take responsibility for my life!" and then justify it with moral hand-ringing... "And that's what a civilized society should do, is take care of everyone who doesn't live responsibly!" which is followed up by some leftardian crap involving the word 'greed' and such.

The thing that is always baffling to me, is that you would think..... that after years and years of disaster following left-wing policies around the world, with Greece being the latest victim.... don't these people ever learn anything? Even dog.... even a freakin rat... will eventually learn that if I put my nose in there, I get swatted. You can train the dumbest of animals to do tricks.

But people like this.... decades and decades of destruction and.... "It'll work! You just have to try it! It's moral!" Seriously.... Sometimes the greatest proof there is intelligent life on other planets, is that they refuse to contact us.

The Left refused to learn...they have just become much more extreme in trying to get anyone who disagrees with them to Shut Up.

This is a long read, but is a frightening article on the insanity going on at colleges these days. The Trigger Warning - Safe Place "Vindictive Protectiveness" practiced by Social Justice Snowflakes is a form of mental illness.

Definitely worth reading:

How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus

 

[nat4900]

The feds bailed out the banks. How did they bail out the stock market?
If you're so opposed to bail outs, then why don't you vote out the politicians who approve them. You know, like Hillary and Obama?

OOOpps, I'm sure its an oversight but you did forget to mention Bush....oh, and by the way, do you remember that scum bucket Phil Gramm????


As chairman of the Senate Banking Committee from 1995 through 2000, Phil Gramm was Washington's most prominent and outspoken champion of financial deregulation. He played a leading role in writing and pushing through Congress the 1999 repeal of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial banks from Wall Street. He also inserted a key provision into the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted over-the-counter derivatives like credit-default swaps from regulation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Credit-default swaps took down AIG, which has cost the U.S. $150 billion thus far.

 

[nat4900]

Wait until the government runs out of money....

Ahhh, but the stock market NEVER runs out of money, correct?....(idiot)

 

[nat4900]

Zero sum neophytes have always been losers.....so I can see how that would be your only perspective.

True.....Its actually MAGIC......Try placing your portfolio under your pillow and the "market-fairy" will make it grow.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Progressives seek to prove everyday what clueless, dimwitted, imbeciles they are.....

 

[bripat9643]

The feds bailed out the banks. How did they bail out the stock market?
If you're so opposed to bail outs, then why don't you vote out the politicians who approve them. You know, like Hillary and Obama?

OOOpps, I'm sure its an oversight but you did forget to mention Bush....oh, and by the way, do you remember that scum bucket Phil Gramm????


As chairman of the Senate Banking Committee from 1995 through 2000, Phil Gramm was Washington's most prominent and outspoken champion of financial deregulation. He played a leading role in writing and pushing through Congress the 1999 repeal of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial banks from Wall Street. He also inserted a key provision into the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted over-the-counter derivatives like credit-default swaps from regulation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Credit-default swaps took down AIG, which has cost the U.S. $150 billion thus far.

Deregulation is not a bailout, dumbass, and Clinton signed the bill, so you look pretty damn stupid trying to blame it all on Republicans. Furthermore, the Glass-Steagall Act did not cause the recession. Giving mortgages to people who couldn't pay them is what caused the recession.

 

[bripat9643]

Wait until the government runs out of money....

Ahhh, but the stock market NEVER runs out of money, correct?....(idiot)

The stock market doesn't have financial obligations to retirees, numskull.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster ...

ROFLMNAO!

Yes... because all wealth was eliminated because of the crash.

LOL! You can NOT make this shit up.

If SS had been instituted in law, requiring a strong education in sound finance stewardship and life long investment had been required of all citizens, the US retirees would be the envy of the universe.

That's not even a debatable point.

But how precious is it that someone is determined to at least try... ?

 

[nat4900]

The stock market doesn't have financial obligations to retirees, numskull.

Thank you for proving my (and others') point.....Want to gamble? Try Vegas.

 

[bripat9643]

If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster ...

ROFLMNAO!

Yes... because all wealth was eliminated because of the crash.

LOL! You can NOT make this shit up.

If SS had been instituted in law, requiring a strong education in sound finance stewardship and life long investment had been required of all citizens, the US retirees would be the envy of the universe.

That's not even a debatable point.

But how precious is it that someone is determined to at least try... ?

Giving all Americans a sound education in finance is the last thing the government wants to do. Then they would all come to realize how badly they are being swindled.

 

[bripat9643]

The stock market doesn't have financial obligations to retirees, numskull.

Thank you for proving my (and others') point.....Want to gamble? Try Vegas.

What point of yours do you imagine I proved?

 

[nat4900]

25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis

 

[bripat9643]

25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis

Only the dumbest of the dumb swallow horseshit like that.