If North Korea can make a Progressive Utopia, why can't we?

[Toome]

I served two tours in Korea. The situation between north and south is unlike any other with regards to split nations. I thought by now the north's regime would have collapsed and the two Koreas would be united as a democracy. The north is a true anachronism on so many levels:

The fact that its leadership stays in the family being handed down from father to son flies in the face of everything socialism supposedly stands for.

The North Korean people are truly controlled by their government in every aspect of their lives. While other regimes allowed the introduction of technology, albeit under very tight controls, the North Koreans have absolutely no access to the technology we take for granted.

It is incredible that such a society exists today. The reason I thought the North would have been gone by now was based purely on the societal laws of motion. If the rest of the world moves in a certain direction, even the most backward society has to move to some degree in the same direction. North Korea has proven to be a glaring exception to that rule. It is truly an anomaly.

I'm curious how many people in the West are naive enough to buy all the BS in that propaganda video. As PT Barnum put it, there's a sucker born every minute!

 

[Neotrotsky]

North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.

They don't even call themselves "progressive".

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea

And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.

It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.

The State controls everything.

Welcome Home, Sallow

Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.

Cause you're on your own.

Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

As a side note:
Stalin killed more people than Hitler
In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
people than any other political system.

 

[Sallow]

It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
It is a creature of the Left
thank goodness

No even in the video she thanks their leader
for having a socialist state, right at the end


They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
Granted only one party is on the ticket
Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs

Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..

Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.

Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.

Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more
equal than others.

You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
After all, they work very hard for us.
Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
under Papa ObamaCare.

For example,
He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
to go to the same school.

Vacations while the nation unemployed increases

Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you

Ah..so essentially you have no fucking idea what you are talking about so you engage in this wishy washy crapola which essentially comes out like psychobabble and then try to tie it up in a neat little hyperbolic box.

North Korea is a barely functional state (and I say barely because they are able to provide the minimum to their population without devolving into anarchy because of riots and rebellion) that even so-called "Communist" countries like China and Russia (Who were suppose to be their "caretakers") want nothing to do with. The only reason China deals with them is they are on the border and a starving North Korean population creates a huge refugee problem for them.

China's North Korean Refugee Dilemma | World Policy Institute

Don't let that throw ya though. Bizzaro land is so much more comforting.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I served two tours in Korea. The situation between north and south is unlike any other with regards to split nations. I thought by now the north's regime would have collapsed and the two Koreas would be united as a democracy. The north is a true anachronism on so many levels:

The fact that its leadership stays in the family being handed down from father to son flies in the face of everything socialism supposedly stands for.

The North Korean people are truly controlled by their government in every aspect of their lives. While other regimes allowed the introduction of technology, albeit under very tight controls, the North Koreans have absolutely no access to the technology we take for granted.

It is incredible that such a society exists today. The reason I thought the North would have been gone by now was based purely on the societal laws of motion. If the rest of the world moves in a certain direction, even the most backward society has to move to some degree in the same direction. North Korea has proven to be a glaring exception to that rule. It is truly an anomaly.

I'm curious how many people in the West are naive enough to buy all the BS in that propaganda video. As PT Barnum put it, there's a sucker born every minute!

Falls in the face of what "socialism stands for" ?

You mean your idea of what socialism stands for,
do you not?

After all, the Soviets were socialists as well, were they not?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.

They don't even call themselves "progressive".

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea

And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.

It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.

The State controls everything.

Welcome Home, Sallow

Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.

Cause you're on your own.

Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty, Progressives are for the State.

ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!! All Progressive Jong Il ideas.

 

[Sallow]

It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.

The State controls everything.

Welcome Home, Sallow

Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.

Cause you're on your own.

Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

As a side note:
Stalin killed more people than Hitler
In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
people than any other political system.

Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.

 

[yidnar]

North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.

They don't even call themselves "progressive".

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea

And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.

what the hell is conservative about a communist dictatorship???you people are the ones screaming for more government control !!

 

[Neotrotsky]

Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..

Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.

Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.

Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more
equal than others.

You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
After all, they work very hard for us.
Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
under Papa ObamaCare.

For example,
He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
to go to the same school.

Vacations while the nation unemployed increases

Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you

Ah..so essentially you have no fucking idea what you are talking about so you engage in this wishy washy crapola which essentially comes out like psychobabble and then try to tie it up in a neat little hyperbolic box.

North Korea is a barely functional state (and I say barely because they are able to provide the minimum to their population without devolving into anarchy because of riots and rebellion) that even so-called "Communist" countries like China and Russia (Who were suppose to be their "caretakers") want nothing to do with. The only reason China deals with them is they are on the border and a starving North Korean population creates a huge refugee problem for them.

China's North Korean Refugee Dilemma | World Policy Institute

Don't let that throw ya though. Bizzaro land is so much more comforting.

No,
I was addressing your point about a minority ruling group.



North Korea is a fine example of a socialist state

You are just repeating racist right wing corporations lies

How could a full CPE that controls all the factors of production
go without

it is impossible- the State always knows what it is doing

 

[Sallow]

It's the Progressive Ideological Mecca.

The State controls everything.

Welcome Home, Sallow

Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.

Cause you're on your own.

Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty, Progressives are for the State.

ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!! All Progressive Jong Il ideas.

Absolutely not.

Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.

 

[yidnar]

North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.

They don't even call themselves "progressive".

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea

And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.

It is a full CPE - it depends on large gov't
It is a creature of the Left
thank goodness

No even in the video she thanks their leader
for having a socialist state, right at the end


They have voting- just like the Soviet Union
Granted only one party is on the ticket
Just think of it like Democrats and RINOs

Depend on large government? Bahahahahahahaha..

Government in North Korea provides shit for it's people. You are basically on your own. There is a small monied class and a large class with bupkis. You'd know this if you ever spend even the SLIGHTEST amount of time in the region. They are alot like Mexico. North Koreans are trying to sneak into every other Asian nation. One of the first things the Chinese did when they took over Hong Kong was to kick out the poor people. If you were Chinese..you had to move to more rural areas you could afford. If you were North Korean, you get sent back to North Korea. I was THERE when that was happening. The Chinese got rid of all the boat people in Aberdeen bay..and the North Koreans were protesting deportation.

Aside from that..you guys are literalists. And North Korea as a nation calls itself a Democratic Republic.

well then give us an example of a socialist paradise!!!

 

[Sallow]

Every socialist state has an inner party, we are all equal, some are just more
equal than others.

You don't expect our leaders and their associates to be the same as the masses.
After all, they work very hard for us.
Do you really think Papa Obama and you are going to get the same medical treatment
under Papa ObamaCare.

For example,
He sends his kids to private school while denying vouchers for poor black kids
to go to the same school.

Vacations while the nation unemployed increases

Please, if you believe that I have a Pork Stimulus Bill to sell you

Ah..so essentially you have no fucking idea what you are talking about so you engage in this wishy washy crapola which essentially comes out like psychobabble and then try to tie it up in a neat little hyperbolic box.

North Korea is a barely functional state (and I say barely because they are able to provide the minimum to their population without devolving into anarchy because of riots and rebellion) that even so-called "Communist" countries like China and Russia (Who were suppose to be their "caretakers") want nothing to do with. The only reason China deals with them is they are on the border and a starving North Korean population creates a huge refugee problem for them.

China's North Korean Refugee Dilemma | World Policy Institute

Don't let that throw ya though. Bizzaro land is so much more comforting.

No,
I was addressing your point about a minority ruling group.



North Korea is a fine example of a socialist state

You are just repeating racist right wing corporations lies

How could a full CPE that controls all the factors of production
go without

it is impossible- the State always knows what it is doing

 

[yidnar]

Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.

Cause you're on your own.

Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty, Progressives are for the State.

ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!! All Progressive Jong Il ideas.

Absolutely not.

Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.

you just described communist!!!

 

[Neotrotsky]

Personally? I think North Korea is a military dictatorship. And if your last name was Kim..you'd be happy.

It's more of a Conservative Utopia. They spend all their money on news toys that kill people. And nothing on the people.

Sounds like something you'd like. Two fisted indivdualism.

Cause you're on your own.

Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

As a side note:
Stalin killed more people than Hitler
In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
people than any other political system.

Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.

It is the truth
sorry run all you want
Stalin killed more than even Hitler
If I am wrong you must have some proof


65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1 million in Vietnam


Truth is hard for the Left
In fact, it is there worst enemy

 

[Neotrotsky]

North Korea isn't progressive at all. It's quite conservative. They don't allow voting. And government is passed down from family to family.

They don't even call themselves "progressive".

It's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea

And thanks to America..South Korea doesn't spend much on it's military. So that leaves it money for many socialist programs..like Socialized Medicine.

what the hell is conservative about a communist dictatorship???you people are the ones screaming for more government control !!

The Left always has to hide from the history of the failed leftist political systems
For example, the great lie that fascism is not of the Left


I find it funny how the US Left tries to tell
you that people like Stalin, Mao etc

who called themselves socialists, called their gov'ts socialist
lived their whole lives promoting socialism

were not socialists

too funny

Statism is the problem
but don't worry
we will get right
this time

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Conservatives are for Freedom and Liberty, Progressives are for the State.

ObamaCare? Tax the Rich!!! All Progressive Jong Il ideas.

Absolutely not.

Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.

you just described communist!!!

Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?

"URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...

New Tax the rich flier
Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English

Become a DREAMer
Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."

 

[Neotrotsky]

Absolutely not.

Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.

you just described communist!!!

Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?

"URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...

New Tax the rich flier
Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English

Become a DREAMer
Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."

Didn't they say

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak,
with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility
and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
​

 

[Sallow]

Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with a true free market system. You may find some type of "comfort"
in thinking North Korea is a child of the right and free markets, but you would be wrong.
North Korea depend on and thrive on a large and intrusive gov't or "big gov't", not small.

Indeed
Peter Drucker

"the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road
toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same.
Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."​

As a side note:
Stalin killed more people than Hitler
In fact, communism or some socialist variant of it have murdered more
people than any other political system.

Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.

It is the truth
sorry run all you want
Stalin killed more than even Hitler
If I am wrong you must have some proof


65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1 million in Vietnam


Truth is hard for the Left
In fact, it is there worst enemy

The stats from South East Asia were all as a result of American Military actions. A conservative estimate of the bombings in Cambodia and Laos are about 1 million. And the US admits to killing at least 1.5 million Vietnamese troops. Factor in civilians you have about 2 million more.

65 million in China were the result of WWII and some really bad planning on the part of the Chinese government. This led to massive starvation. But it was hardly intentional.

Same with Stalin. Most of those deaths occured in WWII. The Russian/German front was the deadliest in the war.

Of course you try to aggregate this as a result of "Communism". You leave out stuff like the 3 million or so that died as a result of Ghandi's efforts in freeing India. When the Muslims and the Hindis split there was a massive die off of Humanity in that region. And of course you leave out America. Which has been responsible for massive death and misery around the world. Most notably Africa and South East Asia. Alot of which was intentional.

Like Hitler's efforts to continue what the Christians wanted done to the Jews in Europe.

The Pope backed it..as did history.

 

[Sallow]

Absolutely not.

Conservatives are for status quo, homogeneous populations, fealty to governments like theocracies, aristocracies, dictatorships or monarchies. They are for tradition and like a strong hand ruling them.

you just described communist!!!

Is this the Democrat Party Platform or the Communist Party Platform?

"URGENT: No to cuts that hurt working people!
Tea Party Republicans are attempting to hold the country hostage by refusing to allow a routine adjustment in the nation's debt ceiling...

New Tax the rich flier
Download the new Save the nation! Tax the rich! PDF in both Spanish and English

Become a DREAMer
Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor to the DREAM Act."

Taxes are communist?

Straight up?

Yes or no.

 

[peach174]

The Left always believes in the lies.
They can't accept facts as facts or the truth.
After all to them a fact is just an opinion.
Red is never Red it's just a certain type of shade of color. They will ague with you, if you state that 2+2 is 4.
How can you reason with people who think so insanely?
They argue the same point over and over again expecting different results.
Albert Einstein Quotes
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[yidnar]

Total bullshit. While I am no fan of communism..when you spew these sort of factoids, you look like you have no idea what you are talking about. Except to others of the same ilk that believe that tripe.

It is the truth
sorry run all you want
Stalin killed more than even Hitler
If I am wrong you must have some proof


65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1 million in Vietnam


Truth is hard for the Left
In fact, it is there worst enemy

The stats from South East Asia were all as a result of American Military actions. A conservative estimate of the bombings in Cambodia and Laos are about 1 million. And the US admits to killing at least 1.5 million Vietnamese troops. Factor in civilians you have about 2 million more.

65 million in China were the result of WWII and some really bad planning on the part of the Chinese government. This led to massive starvation. But it was hardly intentional.

Same with Stalin. Most of those deaths occured in WWII. The Russian/German front was the deadliest in the war.

Of course you try to aggregate this as a result of "Communism". You leave out stuff like the 3 million or so that died as a result of Ghandi's efforts in freeing India. When the Muslims and the Hindis split there was a massive die off of Humanity in that region. And of course you leave out America. Which has been responsible for massive death and misery around the world. Most notably Africa and South East Asia. Alot of which was intentional.

Like Hitler's efforts to continue what the Christians wanted done to the Jews in Europe.

The Pope backed it..as did history.

they died because of communism!!!....and you defend the most oppressive forms of government on earth!!!...and I thought my opinion of SWALLOW"S could not get any worse!!!.... SWALLOW'S IS AN ENEMY OF AMERICA!!