If Jefferson founded the Republican Party what place do Democrats have in America?

What place to dems have in America?

good lard. You sir are little more than a would be tyrant.

and

Is this merely left wing ranting or can you support what you say? How can Republicans be tyrants when they are for limited government?
 
Seems to me that implying that either party has a monopoly on founding principles involves ignoring a lot of what that party actually does.

Since independents decide elections both parties cross over so don't appear consistent to the novice. Republicans though have introduced 30 Balanced Budget Amendments since Jefferson. Newts passed the house and fell one short in the Senate. Democrats defeated them all. Today our debt would be $0 not $16 trillion.

Libertarians are pure, but purely impotent. Hope that helps you along?
 
There have been two Republican parties in America, the first the liberals, the Jeffersonians, the Antifederalists, formed around 1789. It was this group that fought the ratification of the Constitution unless a Bill of Rights were added.

Jefferson formed the Republican Party in 1792 when he left the Washington Administration in disgust . The Republican Party stood for, then and now, freedom and liberty from central government. Now you've got the basics.

WIKI: "The Democratic-Republican Party or Republican Party was an American political party founded in the early 1790s by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Political scientists use the former name, even though there is no known use of it in the 1790's, while historians prefer the latter one; contemporaries generally called the party the "Republicans", along with many other names. In a broader sense the party was the concrete realization of Jeffersonian democracy, i.e., continued aggressive opposition to the British monarchy, opposition to monarchy and strong central government in general, celebration of individual freedom and liberty from strong central government, and state's rights".


The second Republican party formed in the 1850's and is today's Republican party.

of course that is absurd since Horace Greely named the 1850's party after Jefferson's Party because it had the same philosophy

The Democrats of today trace their heritage back to Jefferson.

of course that is 100% absurd since Jefferson was 100% about freedom from liberal central government while todays Democrats are 100% opposite.


It seems you have to start over with American History just to get the basics down. Sorry

<<<<<<
When you leave the core values of Jefferson and substitute the means to the end to secure those core values I know how deep the basics go.
The central government was a threat to liberals and Jefferson feared governments based on their history of governments of that period, but when Jefferson and his party became the government, government seemed less of a threat. The size of government was never part of the core values of liberals, it was what one did with governments that was the threat. Look what Jefferson did with government when he became president, borrowed money and took questionable liberties with the Constitution.
 
FDR took office when the economy was bad, he took advantage of the desperate people and enacted all his progressive policies during the crisis, all of which failed. Only a world war and the creation of the 'industrial military complex' brought the US out of it.

FDR had no qualms about circumventing the constitution. When many of his New Deal legislation started to be undone by Congress and the Supreme Court, he tried to add more justices to the Supreme Court in order to fill it with a bunch of progressive hacks that would rule in his favor. Thankfully his attempt failed.

Obama is trying his best to mimic FDR. He's used the 'economic crisis' to pass 'stimulous' bills which were nothing more than slush funds for his cronies. He circumvents Congress whenever it suits him. And he is already trying to stir up more wars in the Middle East.
You must have learned US history off of a Beck puddle.
 
There have been two Republican parties in America, the first the liberals, the Jeffersonians, the Antifederalists, formed around 1789. It was this group that fought the ratification of the Constitution unless a Bill of Rights were added. The second Republican party formed in the 1850's and is today's Republican party. The Democrats of today trace their heritage back to Jefferson. The Democratic party was comprised of both liberals and conservatives, the conservatives of the South. Truman began easing the conservatives out of the Democratic party and today the former conservative Democrats have found their home with the present day Republican party.
And some of the right wing Democrats became DIXIECRATS, before fining refuge in the Republican party.
 
There have been two Republican parties in America, the first the liberals, the Jeffersonians, the Antifederalists, formed around 1789. It was this group that fought the ratification of the Constitution unless a Bill of Rights were added. The second Republican party formed in the 1850's and is today's Republican party. The Democrats of today trace their heritage back to Jefferson. The Democratic party was comprised of both liberals and conservatives, the conservatives of the South. Truman began easing the conservatives out of the Democratic party and today the former conservative Democrats have found their home with the present day Republican party.
And some of the right wing Democrats became DIXIECRATS, before fining refuge in the Republican party.
*FINDING. FDR kept this country together when Communism and Fascism were genuine threats.
 
It depends on which Republican party you're talking about. The current GOP doesn't trace it's lineage back to the Democratic-Republican party

of course thats absurd since they have the same name and philosophy. In fact, Greely named lincoln's Party Republican because of name and philosophy. What more do you want?



and you can probably find that if you read further down that Wiki article. The current Republican party was formed in the 1860's.

yes to revive the name and philosophy of Jefferson's Party. Is it making sense now?
 
Really, it would seem they have little place in America given that their ideas about big government are the opposite of the basic Constitutional idea of limited central government formalized by our founders.

FDR was really the first liberal Democrat and his New Deal was mostly leftist inspired, not America inspired, as his choice of Henry Wallace, Alger Hiss and the others would indicate. Now they have Obama who had two communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders. How can we conclude that Democrats are anything but a genuine Trojan Horse on American soil? I have yet to hear an answer to this.
Read the Federalist Papers! Madison, Jay, and Hamilton argued FOR a strong central government. As did Jefferson but with more input from the states.
 
The central government was a threat to liberals and Jefferson feared governments based on their history of governments of that period,

of course that is 100% absurd, Jefferson looked at all of history and gave us freedom from all central governments regardless of period


but when Jefferson and his party became the government, government seemed less of a threat. The size of government was never part of the core values of liberals,

here are 50 Jefferson quote to prove you are 100% wrong:

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."

-The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

-The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

" the natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to grain ground; that the greater the government the stronger the exploiter and the weaker the producer; that , therefore, the hope of liberty depends upon local self-governance and the vigilance of the producer class."


-A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor (read-taxes) and bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government.

-Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

-History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

-I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

-I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

-My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government.

-Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.

-Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

-The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.

-Most bad government has grown out of too much government.

-Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.

-Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

-I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious
"Agriculture, manufactures, commerce and navigation, the four
pillars of our prosperity, are the most thriving when left most
free to individual enterprise. Protection from casual
embarrassments, however, may sometimes be seasonably interposed."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801.

"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens
free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits."
--Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.

"[Ours is a] policy of not embarking the public in enterprises
better managed by individuals, and which might occupy as much
of our time as those political duties for which the public functionaries are particularly instituted. Some money could be
lent them [the New Orleans Canal Co.], but only on an assurance that it would be employed so as to secure the public objects."
--Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1808.

"The rights of the people to the exercise and fruits of their own industry can never be protected against the selfishness of rulers
not subject to their control at short periods." --Thomas Jefferson
to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1816.

"Our wish is that...[there be] maintained that state of property,
equal or unequal, which results to every man from his own industry
or that of his fathers." --Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural
Address, 1805.

"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to
others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of
association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --Thomas Jefferson: Note
in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816.

"Private enterprise manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal." --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Annual Message, 1806.

"The merchants will manage [commerce] the better, the more they are left free to manage for themselves." --Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800.


"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface." --Thomas Jefferson to William T. Barry, 1822. ME 15:389


Some] seem to think that [civilization's] advance has brought on too complicated a state of society, and that we should gain in happiness by treading back our steps a little way. I think, myself, that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. I believe it might be much simplified to the relief of those who maintain it." --Thomas Jefferson to William Ludlow, 1824. ME 16:75

The parties of Whig and Tory are those of nature. They exist in all countries, whether called by these names or by those of Aristocrats and Democrats, Cote Droite and Cote Gauche, Ultras and Radicals, Serviles and Liberals. The sickly, weakly, timid man fears the people, and is a Tory by nature. The healthy, strong and bold cherishes them, and is formed a Whig by nature." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:492

"Agriculture, manufactures, commerce and navigation, the four pillars of our prosperity, are the most thriving when left most free to individual enterprise. Protection from casual embarrassments, however, may sometimes be seasonably interposed." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:337

"The power given to Congress by the Constitution does not extend to the internal regulation of the commerce of a State (that is to say, of the commerce between citizen and citizen) which remain exclusively with its own legislature, but to its external commerce only; that is to say, its commerce with another State, or with foreign nations, or with the Indian tribes." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on Bank, 1791. ME 3:147

"Our tenet ever was that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money. ." - Thomas Jefferson


"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- Benjamin Franklin

"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."

-- Thomas Paine


When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- Benjamin Franklin

"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."
-Thomas paine

"If the government robs Peter to pay Paul, it can always count on the support of Paul." [in America to bottom 45% pay no Federal taxes]
-Winston Churchhill

"The government of the United States [federal government] is a definite government confined to specified objects [powers]. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. CHARITY IS NO PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE DUTY OF THE GOVERNMENT."
-James madison
Jefferson: "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."


Patrick Henry
Tell me when did liberty ever exist when the sword and the purse were given up?

Thomas Jefferson
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."



I see,... and with the deepest affliction, the rapid strides with which the federal branch of our government is advancing towards the usurpation of all the rights reserved to the States, and the consolidation in itself of all powers, foreign and domestic; and that, too, by constructions which, if legitimate, leave no limits to their power... It is but too evident that the three ruling branches of [the Federal government] are in combination to strip their colleagues, the State authorities, of the powers reserved by them, and to exercise themselves all functions foreign and domestic."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1825. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson


James Madison: "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions."

James Madison: "The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specific objectives. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."

James Madison in Federalist paper NO. 45: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce."




I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." - Benjamin Franklin

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." - Benjamin Franklin

One single object... [will merit] the endless gratitude of the society: that of restraining the judges from usurping legislation.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Livingston, March 25, 1825
Our peculiar security is in the possession of a written Constitution. Let us not make it a blank paper by construction.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Wilson Nicholas, September 7, 1803


That these are our grievances which we have thus laid before his majesty, with that freedom of language and sentiment which becomes a free people claiming their rights as derived from the laws of nature, andnot as the gift of their chief magistrate.

Thomas Jefferson, Rights of British America,
1774

The Constitution... is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary which they may twist and shape into any form they please.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Judge Spencer Roane, September 6, 1819


The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Taylor, May 28, 1816

They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please...Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.

Thomas Jefferson, Opinion on National Bank, 1791
 
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Read the Federalist Papers! Madison, Jay, and Hamilton argued FOR a strong central government. As did Jefferson but with more input from the states.

Jefferson despised central governemnt and left the Washington administration to start the Republican Party to oppose liberal central government. Read the quotes. You are 100% brainwashed.

When Jefferson won the presidency he called it the Second American Revolution because it established for all time the the revolution had been about freedom from all central government not just the central government of England. Now you've got the basics..
 
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*FINDING. FDR kept this country together when Communism and Fascism were genuine threats.


kept it together by prolonging the Depression for 10 years that caused WW 2? If BO prolongs this recession for 10 years will he be your hero too?
 
WIKI: The Democratic-Republican Party or Republican Party was an American political party founded in the early 1790s by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Political scientists use the former name, even though there is no known use of it in the 1790's, while historians prefer the latter one; contemporaries generally called the party the "Republicans", along with many other names. In a broader sense the party was the concrete realization of Jeffersonian democracy, i.e., continued aggressive opposition to the British monarchy, opposition to monarchy and strong central government in general, celebration of individual freedom and liberty from strong central government, and state's rights.
 
However, of course Jefferson didn't found the Republican Party, so none of that is true -- thank God!


I like the evidence a liberal uses!! It will not even occur to a liberal to have evidence!!

WIKI: The Democratic-Republican Party or Republican Party was an American political party founded in the early 1790s by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Political scientists use the former name, even though there is no known use of it in the 1790's, while historians prefer the latter one; contemporaries generally called the party the "Republicans", along with many other names. In a broader sense the party was the concrete realization of Jeffersonian democracy, i.e., continued aggressive opposition to the British monarchy, opposition to monarchy and strong central government in general, celebration of individual freedom and liberty from strong central government, and state's rights.

Saddam Hussein had his Republican Guard

Were they Republicans too?
 
However, of course Jefferson didn't found the Republican Party, so none of that is true -- thank God!


I like the evidence a liberal uses!! It will not even occur to a liberal to have evidence!!

WIKI: The Democratic-Republican Party or Republican Party was an American political party founded in the early 1790s by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Political scientists use the former name, even though there is no known use of it in the 1790's, while historians prefer the latter one; contemporaries generally called the party the "Republicans", along with many other names. In a broader sense the party was the concrete realization of Jeffersonian democracy, i.e., continued aggressive opposition to the British monarchy, opposition to monarchy and strong central government in general, celebration of individual freedom and liberty from strong central government, and state's rights.

Saddam Hussein had his Republican Guard

Were they Republicans too?

did they stand for freedom and liberty from liberal central government or were they representatives of liberal central government. Now you've got the answer. Why do you even try?
 
I like the evidence a liberal uses!! It will not even occur to a liberal to have evidence!!

WIKI: The Democratic-Republican Party or Republican Party was an American political party founded in the early 1790s by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Political scientists use the former name, even though there is no known use of it in the 1790's, while historians prefer the latter one; contemporaries generally called the party the "Republicans", along with many other names. In a broader sense the party was the concrete realization of Jeffersonian democracy, i.e., continued aggressive opposition to the British monarchy, opposition to monarchy and strong central government in general, celebration of individual freedom and liberty from strong central government, and state's rights.

Saddam Hussein had his Republican Guard

Were they Republicans too?

did they stand for freedom and liberty from liberal central government or were they representatives of liberal central government. Now you've got the answer. Why do you even try?

Saddam Hussein is as close to being Republican as Jefferson was

After all......they both had Republican in their name....right?
 
Really, it would seem they have little place in America given that their ideas about big government are the opposite of the basic Constitutional idea of limited central government formalized by our founders.

FDR was really the first liberal Democrat and his New Deal was mostly leftist inspired, not America inspired, as his choice of Henry Wallace, Alger Hiss and the others would indicate. Now they have Obama who had two communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders. How can we conclude that Democrats are anything but a genuine Trojan Horse on American soil? I have yet to hear an answer to this.

<<<<<<
The founders had the most limited government America has ever had and then the founders met and changed it to a larger and and more involved government mostly at the expense of the states.

What is an American inspired program? In any case FDR has always been rated as one of the three greatest American presidents and recently one group of 238 noted historians and presidential experts rated FDR as America's greatest president.
 
You can't play the political ideology game using 200 year old characters. Today's democrat party has drifted so far left in the last half century that it is off the charts. You might as well use Joe Stalin.
 
This is historically inaccurate. Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party eventually became the Democratic Party under Andrew Jackson and Martin van Buren, whereas the Whig Party eventually collapsed and many of their members created the Republican Party. So technically the Democratic Party is older than the Republican Party.
 
What place to dems have in America?

good lard. You sir are little more than a would be tyrant.

and

Is this merely left wing ranting or can you support what you say? How can Republicans be tyrants when they are for limited government?



I am a devoted Conservative and find myself fearful that neither of the major parties represents me. Both are Liberal in philosophy, actions, programs and goals.

I don't give a rip about social issues. No true conservative would. Any action of government should be to simply allow people to thrive free of fear from hurtful actions of others.

Everything else that government does is an affront to jefferson and to any of the Founders and needs to be stripped away from the activity of government and from the cost, also.

The money spent in 2011 outpaced the money collected by about $4500 per person. I did not see my share of that $4500. I want my fair share which is to say, I wish the thieving, unscrupulous crooks in Washington would take the next decade off and just leave us all alone.

The best government is the least government. To control government, it must be closely watched and this is only possible when it is close at hand. Why are we trusting local issues to Federal Crooks?
 

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