If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and just, then why do ignorant kids suffer?

[mattskramer]

My challenge is for someone to prove to me that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God in light of injustices that people see.

In reply to post #6:

If a victim has a bad hair day, then it is the victim's fault. The victim should pay closer attention to his hair. One should take better care of his skate board. I am a grown up adult. Please don't resort to ad homonym. Though I am an agnostic (leaning toward atheism) I do help people. Many individuals and groups of various religious beliefs (and atheists) help people.

In reply to post #7:
Thanks. Those are my sentiments too.

In reply to post #8:
Parents should be held responsible when they can do something. Perhaps the child's parents were unable to provide assistance. When parents can't/won't help, an all powerful and just God could surely do something: Make it rain wheat bread and water for the child.

In reply to several other posts:
I'm referring to painful torturous things that befall people (children in particular) through no fault of anyone. There are conditions/diseases that children can acquire through practically no one's fault. Where is the justice in that?

Post #17 is a tangent. Yes. The photographer should have done more to help.

My challenge is for someone to prove to me that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God in light of injustices that people see.

In reply to post #20:
Some conditions are not treatable.

In reply to post #23
Don't forget the secular charities:

UNICEF
ACLU
Amnesty International
Doctors Without Borders
Rotary International
Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort
In reply to post #26: God provides drought and famine too.

Right on, secular charities are great too. Of course I'm bias to Christian ones so that the Word of God is also shared.

Seriously, though, you sound just like Satan, but please don't take offense at that, lol. But it's only because Satan thought he knew better than God too. He wanted to be above God's Throne, or have His Throne, or be God but hes not...

Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

It aint gonna happen, man! God is God and we are not. The thing is, kicking against God is just what Satan wants you to do. Satan is the enemy, not God. And there is a real spiritual battle going on, and it manifests itself in the flesh. If you can't tell, look around the world, and even ourselves. Satan is very good at tricking us, he comes as an "angel of light". He'll perhaps say, "I'm sooo good, God is sooo bad, I'm know what is right or wrong, but God doesn't" yadda yadda. When the very lives we have are from God Himself, not Satan. God is the Creator and God is Good, not Satan.

As for proving God to you, and that we are created by Him, it's not gonna happen like you want it to. None of us can see Him. It's totally personal and by His Spirit it will be revealed to you. It's your very personal intimate relationship with Him. It has to happen between you and Him, personally. It would be like me introducing you to someone, and whether or not you decide to pursue that relationship, is up to you. God is already there. He told us what we need to do. Believe! After that, He starts doing the "good work" in us. We still fall short, as every human does, but He really helps us; guides as we continue on in His Name. But if we don't believe and trust Him, well, how can we even be with Him?




We need only call upon His Name, sincerely. (And then you'll know, then He'll open your eyes. I can't, nor anyone else) He's God, He is Gracious, and He knows when we are being honest or not. Now if we aren't being pure in heart in calling upon Him, is He gonna answer? No and why would He? Because He already knows if we are truly seeking Him. I mean, its just like any relationship. If someone comes kicking and screaming at you, what are you going to do? You can't communicate with someone coming at ya and won't listen. But if that person says they are sorry and they are truly sorry, the relationship starts to build and it turns out pretty good, eh?

Hey, even after I say all this, don't even believe me, ask Him yourself, seriously. Yes, we know what that entails; repentance. Repentence from kicking against Him. Repentence from alot of our sin. The difference is, the Revelation or knowledge of Jesus Christ makes us not WANT to sin. Not all of it even comes off at first. And it can be hard to do, but I can share with you that He (our Lord Jesus Christ) is the most rewarding blessing thereafter, just knowing His love, no words can describe. Knowing His loving makes us not want to sin. After all, it only hurts us and others.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Deut 4:29But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

.

It is difficult to communicate with something that you doubt even exists.

 

[Ringel05]

I ask how there can be suffering on Earth if there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God. I am told that there is free will and that people must choose to believe in Jesus. If that is the case, then what becomes of children who suffer and die without having been given information about Jesus? More importantly, why would such a God allow innocent children to suffer in agony and pain such as this kid did?

Such a child does not have free will in the practical sense. He probably did not even get a chance to learn about Jesus. Luckily he survived.

Two words, free will.

 

[edthecynic]

Seriously, though, you sound just like Satan, but please don't take offense at that, lol. But it's only because Satan thought he knew better than God too. He wanted to be above God's Throne, or have His Throne, or be God but hes not...

Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

It aint gonna happen, man! God is God and we are not. The thing is, kicking against God is just what Satan wants you to do. Satan is the enemy, not God. And there is a real spiritual battle going on, and it manifests itself in the flesh. If you can't tell, look around the world, and even ourselves. Satan is very good at tricking us, he comes as an "angel of light"....

That is, of course, quite debatable! There are many who say that God and Lucifer/Satan are one and the same! Even the bible says that Jesus, the son of God, is the offspring of David and "the morning star"/Lucifer!!! Satan is God's dark side, the side that created evil, and there is no denying God has a dark side.

Rev 22: 16 I, Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

KJV - Lucifer 1; 1
Lucifer = "light-bearer"
1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

1 Ch 21: 1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Sam 24: 1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

 

[emilynghiem]

I doubt that a God can be all-powerful, all-knowing, and just at the same time. Yet, I am not confident in my opinion. I am still looking for a logical and convincing answer and/or explanation. As I see it, either I have a faulty premise or such a God can't exist.

Dear Mattskramer: You are asking the equivalent of a post-post-doctoral question.
Nobody can prove there is a higher justice beyond the cause and effect that you restrict to this lifetime; like the idea that past generations affect future ones, and there is some "greater justice" in the bigger realm of things. Any of that is taken on faith.
So if you do not share in this faith, then you may be out of luck in getting answers.

Here are some ways I could try to explain it within a secular understanding of the world.
A. Much of the suffering in the world is the effect of unnatural division or unfair competition, from greed or unforgiveness, where humanity has enough resources not to suffer; but because we are divided and wasting resources in unresolved conflict, then we see the effects on innocent children and populations. No, collective punishment is NOT just on this level, but it IS a consequence of actions; there are natural laws of life, and when we don't live in harmony with them, we cause suffering either to ourselves or others! This is not fair if you look at it in terms of the "people who did the wrong things or abuse or live out of balance" vs. "the people who suffer the consequences". Only if you look at humanity as a whole, if you consider that the suffering of one is suffering that affects us all, then we are 'all responsible' and we 'all suffer the consequences" on some level.

B. For every person who suffers or causes MORE injustice or harm than another person, there is also a GREATER capacity for redemption and reward when restitution or compensation comes back to that person. Again if you take one segment of time out of context with the whole, you may not see justice. It may take years or lifetimes, or the payback or blessings from one incident may not come back directly but indirectly. Any of that form of "cause and effect" requires faith, as it is not proven and often not seen in one continuous chain of events or one lifetime. For this explanation of spiritual justice that is higher than material justice, you would have to experience or witness it personally to believe it; it is mostly faith based and is only proven to people because they feel it is true.

C. The way an atheist/Buddhist friend explained how he finally resolved some of these issues, he decided he must be connected to some "karma" from the past for all the suffering and abuse he experienced in this lifetime to make any sense. For there to be justice, things had to be in the process of coming out even in the end. The Buddhists consider it paying off past karmic debts, where the only good news in the unjust suffering is that you break the cycle, you pay off that debt, and it is gone, you don't have to pay it again. So again, instead of viewing individuals as separate, by viewing whole generations as connected, where issues of the past, wrongdoings or injustice, that was not resolved can be passed down and projected or repeated again until these are resolved in future lifetimes instead, there is a higher spiritual justice, transcending time and space, that could explain how these events are just. That can never be proven, just taken on faith.

So in cases where the bad things going on are closing off a past debt, and paying back for a past injustice, I trust that if people are able to let go, and get closure, that is the end.
And in cases where an injustice does not give closure, but motivates people to push forward to change things so that future generations benefit from correction or prevention,
then in that case, it is a future debt or reward that is being paid forward.

Again, totally based on faith, as these things transcend cause and effect that is proveable in this lifetime.

You may find some other way to resolve how justice works in the world.
But these are some ways I have found that can help secular thinkers seeking a real life explanation that makes sense in practice.

A lot of the injustice we see -- from the killing of innocent civilians in war, to random bystanders killed by drunk drivers -- is a form of "collective punishment" that if people in general as a society do not do more to prevent conflicts or abuses from escalating into more dangerous situations, then we will suffer the loss of innocent lives -- to disease, to murder, to natural and unnatural catastrophes. And the more we apply our knowledge and resources to relieving the cause of problems and suffering, then we will see less of this.

So by natural laws of cause and effect, these ills we see will "motivate" us to push to solve the problems at the source, where they can be corrected and prevented in the future. In the meantime, while humans are still going through the learning curve, of trial and error, making choices by free will and reason which has a price, we experience both positive and negative consequences in order to learn the difference in consequences of action or inaction. Best wishes to you in finding the answers that satisfy your questions.

 

[Caroljo]

The real question is why do we let children like this suffer when God has given us plenty of resources to take care of ourselves and others.

Because, sadly, God also invented Republicans.

Read the 6th paragraph in this article then tell me what you think!

Who Gives and Who Doesn't? - ABC News

 

[geauxtohell]

hmm

no, no personal responsibility from the parents is expeced. It's gods fault they aren't able to feed themselves properly.

Oh yeah, nice photoshop. buzzards don't get that close to people.

please dont waste food - tribe.net

The photo in the mail is the Pulitzer prize winning photo taken in 1994 during Sudan famine. The picture depicts a famine stricken child crawling towards a United Nations food camp, located a kilometer away. The vulture is waiting for the child to die so that it can eat it. This picture shocked the whole world. No one knows what happened to the child, including the photographer Kevin Carter who left the place as soon as the photograph was taken.

Three months later he committed suicide due to depression.

ok thanks

He probably killed himself b/c he failed to do anything when he could. He could have prevented some suffering but chose not to.

nice

fuck him.

Your visceral response to the horror of this picture (which I suppose you know believe exists) doesn't answer the OP's question.

 

[geauxtohell]

 

[emilynghiem]

That is, of course, quite debatable! There are many who say that God and Lucifer/Satan are one and the same! Even the bible says that Jesus, the son of God, is the offspring of David and "the morning star"/Lucifer!!! Satan is God's dark side, the side that created evil, and there is no denying God has a dark side.

Dear Ed:
A. First of all, you have very interesting quote on cynicism.
I don't mind constructive criticism, for the purpose of correction.
I think you can have that and idealism, reason and faith, and get to truth where these agree. So critical thinking and correction is important in the process of uncovering truth.
I think the distinguishing factor is forgiveness. If you can share forgiveness and compassion in relations, especially where you are addressing a wrong with your neighbor, you have better chance of communicating that in good faith, so the correction is accepted.
And vice versa.
So it is OK to question, analyze and criticize and not take anything on faith, but to research fully and investigate it to answer all questions, and remove all doubts or discrepancies.
But where cynicism becomes its own worst enemy is when you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater; rejecting too much based on faith it is wrong, instead of allowing that side to be proven as well, or to make distinctions between which cases are false and which are true.

If you cannot forgive the conflicts or wrongs you seek to address, you are prone to introduce your own "negative biases" that prevent you from being fully objective or complete in your assessments.
So please be careful you do not take "cyncism" to such an extreme, that you defeat your own purpose
and make the same mistakes you criticize others for (as you cite Rush Limbaugh for promoting).

B. Secondly, about Satan being the flip side of God, let us make a distinction then.
When we are referring to the positive aspects of God, there are three levels
1. God on the collective level of love, Source of all of life/creation/universe or universal truth/good will/laws
2. Divine justice or Jesus or the spirit of these laws embodied on the human level of conscience or in relation between neighbors or whole nations/government
3. Spiritual peace on earth, on the physical level as experienced by individuals in the real world
Let us assume however this is labelled, as God/Christ/HolySpirit
or mind/body/spirit, the meaning of God is the side of human nature and spirituality that is GOOD.

For the flip side, let us consider how these good things are corrupted or abused
1. instead of love of truth and good will for all
there is fear of the unknown, division and distrust out of selfishness
So SATAN represents the abuse of fear to corrupt love of truth by dividing people falsely
based on what we don't know. So what used to be innocence, is corrupted as ignorance.
Instead of asking for answers because we don't know, we assume rejection because we don't know.
2. instead of love of justice and faith in laws and conscience to "govern ourselves"
there is abuse of laws to try to "control other people", either religious or state authority, to
violate justice while false claiming to invoke the name of justice
so ANTICHRIST represents the abuse of laws and justice
out of FEAR of control/authority/change by others
instead of faith in fair government by free will, this is the abuse of force to oppress
3. instead of love of humanity, seeking forgiveness to heal and restore neighborly
relations, and using words to communicate PEACE and unity/freedom in truth
the FALSE PROPHET represents the opposite, abusive or divisive hate speech
to fuel war and conflict by the FEAR of confrontation, spreading false fearful propoganda
that does not resolve issues to reunite or to reconcile, but profits off conflict and WAR

You can say that the ABUSE of God/Christ/HolySpirit
is the flip side: Satan/Antichrist/FalseProphet

But please make a distinction which case you are referring to,
the positive attributes or the negative abuses of them.

Love conquers fear.
Truth conquers falsehood.
Forgiveness overcomes unforgiveness.

So even though the two sides are connected,
they work in the opposite spirit and are NOT the "same thing."
Like positive integers being like negative integers, but opposite directions in value,
They are certainly not interchangeable, and it is critical to know the difference!

 

[Warrior102]

I ask how there can be suffering on Earth if there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God. I am told that there is free will and that people must choose to believe in Jesus. If that is the case, then what becomes of children who suffer and die without having been given information about Jesus? More importantly, why would such a God allow innocent children to suffer in agony and pain such as this kid did?

Such a child does not have free will in the practical sense. He probably did not even get a chance to learn about Jesus. Luckily he survived.

Do a good job here on earth and get your ass into heaven son.

Earth isn't heaven. Read up on it.

Funny you didn't mention tsunami's, AIDS, war, Holocaust, etc.

And don't forget that whole Pergatory thing. You need to have a clean/spotless soul before standing before the Almighty.

You gotta lot of work to do - as do all of us.

Get crackin'

Don't worry about the meaningless BS down here on earth.

We're all dust - eventually.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Mattskramer: There are two ways I have seen people come to their own realization about God that does not conflict with the other different views out there.
1. proof by default, by removing all the questions and issues that otherwise seemed to be in opposition or contrary to a consistent perception of God
2. or by adding an experience or insight that someone attributes to a connection with God as the source
Although you seem to be asking for 2 - proof that God is real,
I think your process may be more like 1 - removing whatever is "telling you" that what you believe about life is somehow in conflict with people personifying this as a personal God.

The same things that can be said about Life can be said about God.
For example, what you said that good things happen to good and bad people.
Bad things happen to both good and bad people.
Even the Christian teachings in the Bible see God as "raining on the just and unjust"
So this is NOT contrary to the Christian God.

Also, all the things you say below, where "secular" groups do good things too.
That is not against belief in God, as any universal God that created all hte universe and people in it, would govern the secular by natural laws for all humanity equally as the
religious under divine laws of the church.

Where I think you may have difficulty is reconciling how can your nontheist views of life be reconciled with "what you perceive to be the Christian God". In fact, the perception of what the Christian God is, that is the part that will change, by removing these divisions in perceptions in your mind. Whatever you THINK the Christian God is, that is so contradictory and false, is not universally true if it defies natural laws of the world that this God supposedly created. So by definition of God being universal and supreme, that cannot be what God means, if there is anything false or excluded. God's truth would have to include and explain ALL things.

In order to resolve this proof would likely involve changing your perception of what you think God must mean, so when you do arrive at a universal meaning of God you would find that it rings in truth and harmony with what you already know to be true about Life.

My challenge is for someone to prove to me that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God in light of injustices that people see.

In reply to post #6:

If a victim has a bad hair day, then it is the victim's fault. The victim should pay closer attention to his hair. One should take better care of his skate board. I am a grown up adult. Please don't resort to ad homonym. Though I am an agnostic (leaning toward atheism) I do help people. Many individuals and groups of various religious beliefs (and atheists) help people.

In reply to post #7:
Thanks. Those are my sentiments too.

In reply to post #8:
Parents should be held responsible when they can do something. Perhaps the child's parents were unable to provide assistance. When parents can't/won't help, an all powerful and just God could surely do something: Make it rain wheat bread and water for the child.

In reply to several other posts:
I'm referring to painful torturous things that befall people (children in particular) through no fault of anyone. There are conditions/diseases that children can acquire through practically no one's fault. Where is the justice in that?

Post #17 is a tangent. Yes. The photographer should have done more to help.

My challenge is for someone to prove to me that there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God in light of injustices that people see.

In reply to post #20:
Some conditions are not treatable.

In reply to post #23
Don't forget the secular charities:

UNICEF
ACLU
Amnesty International
Doctors Without Borders
Rotary International
Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort
In reply to post #26: God provides drought and famine too.

I think you are asking about Justice specifically, which I attempt to spell out in msg #44.
Proof of justice existing in the world is faith-based, and most relies on forgiving and
resolving past conflicts or injustice that otherwise prevents people from believing justice is possible.

 

[whitehall]

The greatest Country in the world doesn't knowingly allow kids to suffer. Let's make that point clear. God promises paradise only in the after-life. Free will allows humans to murder the unborn and torture kids. It's a simple concept except for religious bigots.

 

[edthecynic]

Exactly. God is so Gracious.

Hosea 13: 16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Psalms 137: 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Dearest Ed Again, I cannot make you believe, you'll most likely keep kicking against it all unless/until you call upon His Name.. There are many more verses like that in the Old Testament, many things happened before Jesus Christ came in the flesh to die for our sins.

Our Father knew He was sending Jesus, He knew who's hearts were hardened back then and now also. Jesus Christ fulfills the "law". His love covers a mulitude of sins, because we all sin. Just like when you and I forgive each other, or any other relationship, love and forgiveness trumps the bad/hate/evil all the time.

Again, think about this even with what happened in the past, or however God worked it, if the Lord has that much Grace with us to take the punishment of the sins of all mankind, on that Cross, how much more Grace does He have for a baby or young child that dies?

We may not understand all of it, but He is Gracious for sure.
.

Luke 14:26 Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

 

[emilynghiem]

Luke 14:26 Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

Dear Ed: I have found this passage to be explained in two different ways:
1. First this kind of hate means to separate from. At some point, detaching completely, not depending on or living in the "material" world for "material gain or happiness." Not loving one another the CONDITIONAL kind of "human love" that depends on reciprocity or retribution: to only love who is good to you and to hate your enemy that is opposed. It means to separate from that kind of dependence and relations with people.
2. Secondly, in the process of reaching unconditional love that does not depend on material reward, there is a point where people feel spiritually like dying, like losing their lives and letting go of everything they thought, whether good or bad. Giving it all up and starting over. Only by letting go of the old ways, then the new ways replace them, that are spiritually driven and not of this world. This stage can become so intense it literally feels like anger and hatred, totally resentment and rejection, in every sense of the word "hate" can mean.

So whoever loses his life, on the material level of attachment,
finds it spiritually on a level that is transcendent.

This can either be (1) figuratively hating in terms of separating or letting go or renouncing the material world of expectations on conditions in relationships (2) or it can be LITERALLY hating your life, your whole world, totally killing off whatever you loved and held sacred;
so that "after this anger phase" you are filled instead with spiritual motivations and love of life that DOES NOT depend on other people for peace and spiritual satisfaction in life.

NOTE: This passage cannot be promoting to live in a state of hate for people forever as the goal. Otherwise it would contradict the two great commandments on which all the laws and prophets are based: (1) to LOVE God with all our heart mind and soul (2) to LOVE our neighbor as ourselves (and the third new commandment Jesus brought to fulfill the other two uniting love of God with love of man as one (3) to LOVE one another as Jesus loves us ie unconditionally as God does, not conditionally which causes suffering.

So in this context with the SPIRIT of the laws which is LOVE, the passage has to mean something in relation to that process or purpose of loving God and man. Or else it does not make any sense.

 

[mattskramer]

I ask how there can be suffering on Earth if there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God. I am told that there is free will and that people must choose to believe in Jesus. If that is the case, then what becomes of children who suffer and die without having been given information about Jesus? More importantly, why would such a God allow innocent children to suffer in agony and pain such as this kid did?

Such a child does not have free will in the practical sense. He probably did not even get a chance to learn about Jesus. Luckily he survived.

Two words, free will.

What free will did that little infant have?
Perhaps he should have crawled to the right instead of two the left.

 

[Avatar4321]

We could make Earth Heaven if we listened to God's counsel in our life.

 

[Ravi]

The real question is why do we let children like this suffer when God has given us plenty of resources to take care of ourselves and others.

Because, sadly, God also invented Republicans.

Read the 6th paragraph in this article then tell me what you think!

Who Gives and Who Doesn't? - ABC News

No offense, but . Republicans give to get brownie points. Liberals give anonymously.

 

[edthecynic]

Luke 14:26 Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

Dear Ed: I have found this passage to be explained in two different ways:
1. First this kind of hate means to separate from. At some point, detaching completely, not depending on or living in the "material" world for "material gain or happiness." Not loving one another the CONDITIONAL kind of "human love" that depends on reciprocity or retribution: to only love who is good to you and to hate your enemy that is opposed. It means to separate from that kind of dependence and relations with people.
2. Secondly, in the process of reaching unconditional love that does not depend on material reward, there is a point where people feel spiritually like dying, like losing their lives and letting go of everything they thought, whether good or bad. Giving it all up and starting over. Only by letting go of the old ways, then the new ways replace them, that are spiritually driven and not of this world. This stage can become so intense it literally feels like anger and hatred, totally resentment and rejection, in every sense of the word "hate" can mean.

So whoever loses his life, on the material level of attachment,
finds it spiritually on a level that is transcendent.

This can either be (1) figuratively hating in terms of separating or letting go or renouncing the material world of expectations on conditions in relationships (2) or it can be LITERALLY hating your life, your whole world, totally killing off whatever you loved and held sacred;
so that "after this anger phase" you are filled instead with spiritual motivations and love of life that DOES NOT depend on other people for peace and spiritual satisfaction in life.

NOTE: This passage cannot be promoting to live in a state of hate for people forever as the goal. Otherwise it would contradict the two great commandments on which all the laws and prophets are based: (1) to LOVE God with all our heart mind and soul (2) to LOVE our neighbor as ourselves (and the third new commandment Jesus brought to fulfill the other two uniting love of God with love of man as one (3) to LOVE one another as Jesus loves us ie unconditionally as God does, not conditionally which causes suffering.

So in this context with the SPIRIT of the laws which is LOVE, the passage has to mean something in relation to that process or purpose of loving God and man. Or else it does not make any sense.

But the bible contradicts itself everywhere! That is how the brainwashed are tested. When the brainwashed can no longer see the obvious contradictions, then their brainwashing is complete.

Sticking with the God is love theme:

1 Corinthians 13:4)Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up,
5) does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury.
6) It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.
7) It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Na 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

 

[Ringel05]

I ask how there can be suffering on Earth if there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God. I am told that there is free will and that people must choose to believe in Jesus. If that is the case, then what becomes of children who suffer and die without having been given information about Jesus? More importantly, why would such a God allow innocent children to suffer in agony and pain such as this kid did?

Such a child does not have free will in the practical sense. He probably did not even get a chance to learn about Jesus. Luckily he survived.

Two words, free will.

What free will did that little infant have?
Perhaps he should have crawled to the right instead of two the left.

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

 

[Ringel05]

Luke 14:26 Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

Dear Ed: I have found this passage to be explained in two different ways:
1. First this kind of hate means to separate from. At some point, detaching completely, not depending on or living in the "material" world for "material gain or happiness." Not loving one another the CONDITIONAL kind of "human love" that depends on reciprocity or retribution: to only love who is good to you and to hate your enemy that is opposed. It means to separate from that kind of dependence and relations with people.
2. Secondly, in the process of reaching unconditional love that does not depend on material reward, there is a point where people feel spiritually like dying, like losing their lives and letting go of everything they thought, whether good or bad. Giving it all up and starting over. Only by letting go of the old ways, then the new ways replace them, that are spiritually driven and not of this world. This stage can become so intense it literally feels like anger and hatred, totally resentment and rejection, in every sense of the word "hate" can mean.

So whoever loses his life, on the material level of attachment,
finds it spiritually on a level that is transcendent.

This can either be (1) figuratively hating in terms of separating or letting go or renouncing the material world of expectations on conditions in relationships (2) or it can be LITERALLY hating your life, your whole world, totally killing off whatever you loved and held sacred;
so that "after this anger phase" you are filled instead with spiritual motivations and love of life that DOES NOT depend on other people for peace and spiritual satisfaction in life.

NOTE: This passage cannot be promoting to live in a state of hate for people forever as the goal. Otherwise it would contradict the two great commandments on which all the laws and prophets are based: (1) to LOVE God with all our heart mind and soul (2) to LOVE our neighbor as ourselves (and the third new commandment Jesus brought to fulfill the other two uniting love of God with love of man as one (3) to LOVE one another as Jesus loves us ie unconditionally as God does, not conditionally which causes suffering.

So in this context with the SPIRIT of the laws which is LOVE, the passage has to mean something in relation to that process or purpose of loving God and man. Or else it does not make any sense.

But the bible contradicts itself everywhere! That is how the brainwashed are tested. When the brainwashed can no longer see the obvious contradictions, then their brainwashing is complete.

Sticking with the God is love theme:

1 Corinthians 13:4)Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up,
5) does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury.
6) It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.
7) It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Na 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Ah yes, another Biblical scholar versed in the ancient Greek and Hebrew to such an extent as to pass himself off as an expert. Wait you're not. Sigh........

 

[Avatar4321]

Because, sadly, God also invented Republicans.

Read the 6th paragraph in this article then tell me what you think!

Who Gives and Who Doesn't? - ABC News

No offense, but . Republicans give to get brownie points. Liberals give anonymously.

No, liberals give money that doesn't belong to them.

And if you disagree with that then maybe you shouldnt make stupid statements stereotyping people.