If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and just, then why do ignorant kids suffer?

[Ringel05]

I can't stop you from making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have. I'd ask you what others I have relied on but you will dodge that just like you dodged the context you pretended I missed.

What other's you've relied on?? What the fuck are you talking about? You never asked anything like that.

Down to the CON$ervative dumb act. Of course I never asked anything like that, YOU just made it up in YOUR last post!!! YOU are the one making the claim that you can't back up, just like your context claims.

Sorry, misread your post but ooooh, here we go. you're wrong, ya know you're wrong so you resort to stereotypical classification, I'm a con now. How very educated of you.
I wonder what the cons who call me a moonbat would think of that. Uuummmmm.........

 

[JohnA]

I ask how there can be suffering on Earth if there is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and just God. I am told that there is free will and that people must choose to believe in Jesus. If that is the case, then what becomes of children who suffer and die without having been given information about Jesus? More importantly, why would such a God allow innocent children to suffer in agony and pain such as this kid did?

Such a child does not have free will in the practical sense. He probably did not even get a chance to learn about Jesus. Luckily he survived.

its only the christians that insist you believe in jesus other faiths dont .
it goes back to the time when the church had total control of the masses
based on fear of the the unknown people were brainwashed unto believing that if they believed in the lord jesus christ they would go to a place of goodness after death and if they questioned of disbelieved they would have eternal damnation
same bullshit/used to control muslin men who are lead to believe there are *virgins *awaiting them after death if they follow the faith .

this sales trick of offering something for you after death ( which of course cant be garranteed ) if you let them take control of your life has been used by religion for as long as there has been man on earth

this tool to take full control of the mind of the masses still works today

ASSUME FOR THIS PREMISE there is a GOD that being so nothing is there to suggest that the christian god is the correct and only one

W ho knows christians might try to enter the pearly gates only to find mahammed in control there or even zeus ,jupiter .or other other god .

christianity is a small religion in comparison to the beliefs of the rest of the world ancient and modern

is it to be believed that a LOVING &RIGHTOUS god would only chose a small number of the *souls *he created on earth to share eternity with him .
why is there suffering in the world
REALITY CHECK
cus thats nature the way it is there is NO SUPREME BEING who could change things



'

 

[mattskramer]

Two words, free will.

What free will did that little infant have?
Perhaps he should have crawled to the right instead of two the left.

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

 

[JohnA]

What free will did that little infant have?
Perhaps he should have crawled to the right instead of two the left.

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

These hypocritical nutty religious freaks make me puke when they mention free will

is that the same *free will* they want to take away from you when choosing who you sleep with and if you want to give birth to the featus inside of you .

funny isnt it ?they contend *god * gave you free will but they have the *right * to take it away from you .l



they wont answer your question cus they cant ,they need to get a fucking life

 

[Ravi]

What free will did that little infant have?
Perhaps he should have crawled to the right instead of two the left.

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

I don't think you understand what is meant by free will. It basically means that God is not all seeing because he doesn't have the time or interest so he gave us free will. In other words, free will lets God off the hook.

 

[Ringel05]

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

These hypocritical nutty religious freaks make me puke when they mention free will

is that the same *free will* they want to take away from you when choosing who you sleep with and if you want to give birth to the featus inside of you .

funny isnt it ?they contend *god * gave you free will but they have the *right * to take it away from you .l



they wont answer your question cus they cant ,they need to get a fucking life

Religious freaks?
Are you insinuating that purely academic research hasn't and can't be done as a way of understanding belief systems and how they affect people?

 

[Ringel05]

What free will did that little infant have?
Perhaps he should have crawled to the right instead of two the left.

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

I'm only stating what is Christian doctrine, which is technically what your OP is addressing. And I answered the question by directing you to learn about what you are addressing before addressing it or do you want a complete dissertation on the subject of God, his word and it's relation to the doctrine of free will?
In brief I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really do want to understand how the Christian belief system works and try to summarize from a sociological/theological stand point.
According to Christian belief God gave mankind free will, he spoke it as an oath to man giving mankind the power to chose his/her own path. As any educated person knows every choice has it's consequences, cause and effect. The child did not have free will in the sense you are addressing but was a victim of mankind's free will decisions that went against what God had supposedly intended, allowing evil to flourish and destroy lives. According to Christian doctrine God, being God cannot go back on his word and remove free will, that would be a lie and God cannot lie.

 

[mattskramer]

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

I'm only stating what is Christian doctrine, which is technically what your OP is addressing. And I answered the question by directing you to learn about what you are addressing before addressing it or do you want a complete dissertation on the subject of God, his word and it's relation to the doctrine of free will?
In brief I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really do want to understand how the Christian belief system works and try to summarize from a sociological/theological stand point.
According to Christian belief God gave mankind free will, he spoke it as an oath to man giving mankind the power to chose his/her own path. As any educated person knows every choice has it's consequences, cause and effect. The child did not have free will in the sense you are addressing but was a victim of mankind's free will decisions that went against what God had supposedly intended, allowing evil to flourish and destroy lives. According to Christian doctrine God, being God cannot go back on his word and remove free will, that would be a lie and God cannot lie.

Okay. I think that I understand your point. Yet, according to the Christian doctrine, is god just and fair? If such is the case, then is it just and fair that the child should suffer due to the acts of its ancestors? Wouldn't a just God intercede for the sake of the innocent child? That is a dilemma.

 

[emilynghiem]

Too bad you are so focused on attempting to deny God, instead of trying to understand what that means. No problem. If you're going to attack or deny something don't you think you should know what you're denying and or attacking?
Learn about the christian concept of free will, and God's word and maybe you'll get an understanding. By the way it has everything to do with cause and effect.

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

I don't think you understand what is meant by free will. It basically means that God is not all seeing because he doesn't have the time or interest so he gave us free will. In other words, free will lets God off the hook.

Dear Riva and Matt:
You both add interesting points of perspective here.
Thank you for that.

Riva: I would say that human free will operates within God's will / universal laws.
The purpose of free will is instead of imposing God's will by blind faith, we are designed to choose it by applying reason and informed consent to accept and follow what is true and good for the mutual benefit of all and the greatest good of society. NOBODY gets "off the hook" neither God nor man, as the laws of justice are consistent. Even if you believe in divine forgiveness that is unconditionally given and not earned by works or paying back, there is still restitution owed for damages and wrongdoing on the PHYSICAL level in order to restore good working relations with neighbors who otherwise suffer destruction.

We have the freedom and free will to make mistakes, to learn by trial and error,
but if our mistakes cost some damage, then there is a cost to pay for our education.
The more damage we do, the more effort it takes to heal, correct and resolve that.
If you want to hold God responsible for making humans with free will to cause all this damage we are seeing, then you can consider Jesus sacrifice on the cross to be God's apology and payment for that. On some level, you can use the fact that humans have free will to blame God, since he would be responsible for creating us that way!

If nobody can be held to blame for doing things out of ignorance, and only God is perfectly knowledgeable while humans make mistakes by our nature, you could blame God for all this mess, for making us imperfect and not knowing and being able to be misled.

I find it interesting that your take on free will could just as easily be interpreted
to get "humans off the hook" and blame everything on God for creating fallible free will!!

Matt: Our human free will operates within natural laws of how the world works.
We cannot violate natural laws, and neither can God.
All things that we can do, or even God can do, must be explicable within
the law of creation, energy science, etc. Our knowledge of science may be deficient
in explaining how energy works, but the laws that exist are there whether we
have developed the math or language yet to EXPRESS these laws.
It has to be consistent; we cannot do impossible things that are unnatural,
such as suddenly changing a human being into a butterfly, which is not natural.

In the case of this child, you cannot take the child out of context with the whole situation that bore this child into the world and the conditions there. If you look at the free will of all humanity to act to change the conditions of the world, that is where you will see the cause and effect "on the greater scale." So the more of us act to resolve conflicts, better organize and conserve resources to help more people locally within our reach, then globally we will see less suffering from unequal access between supply and demand.
So this child's free will and future is tied in with our own, the rest of humanity.

Some of the suffering and injustice we see in the world may not make sense out of context, but given the impact it has on people who witness it, who become more humble and appreciative of resources and try to do more to end suffering by helping more people; then it does have an effect in the bigger picture. When war kills innocent people, like the children who died in the street and moved Betty Williams to unify mothers across political and religious lines to march for peace in Ireland, this sends the message that war and conflict is not acceptable -- it will cost us one way or another, and it will escalate until we act to prevent and correct the causes of oppression, division and violence.

I'm sorry also that innocent lives end up being lost until we all learn from this.
If a drunk driver does not get help to address an alcoholic abuse issue, often somebody ends up dead before they are forced into rehab. If we don't solve our own problems locally, they become society's burdens globally. If we become blind and complacent,
then sometimes it takes a photo of a helpless child starving to death miles away
before we wake up to the reality that the world still needs a lot of work done.

When we are all awake and aware, you will see there will be more cooperation on solutions out of pure compassion for others equally as ourselves, and there will be a lot fewer gaps in the system where people are going without, a lot less. This is happening right now. For the Nobel prize winners like Betty Williams in Ireland, there are others like another Irish woman who started an orphanage in Vietnam though she is not known in the media. For the Dalai Lama who is seen as a leader in Tibet, there is another monk who figured out how to work with the Chinese to set up schools in Tibet to focus on education where they agreed was a necessary good. There are so many people out there, for each one we know and hear about, who are doing outreach, this is what is going to change the world.

Having faith in that, that what we do locally then collectively becomes global change, that is where you will find faith in social justice and world peace, that these things are possible, and they are in progress and leading up to culmination where there will be an end to suffering and "salvation" for all humanity. Christians recognize this central unifying connection in Christ Jesus who connects our human free will with the greater collective good will and driving force in life that is called God's divine will or plan. Secular activists may call this "restorative justice" which I believe is the secular equivalent of believing and following the spirit of Christ Jesus, as applied to the natural laws of society and humanity.

Thank you for your interesting questions and responses.
I really enjoy your intellectual honesty and explorations in this way.
I believe it will lead to greater understanding, on all sides,
so thank you in advance!

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Ringel05]

Are you going to answer my question?
Do you really contend that the child had free will?
Did he have the power to choose his current condition?
What about children born with Down's Syndrome? I guess that the children's free will led them to that.

I'm only stating what is Christian doctrine, which is technically what your OP is addressing. And I answered the question by directing you to learn about what you are addressing before addressing it or do you want a complete dissertation on the subject of God, his word and it's relation to the doctrine of free will?
In brief I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really do want to understand how the Christian belief system works and try to summarize from a sociological/theological stand point.
According to Christian belief God gave mankind free will, he spoke it as an oath to man giving mankind the power to chose his/her own path. As any educated person knows every choice has it's consequences, cause and effect. The child did not have free will in the sense you are addressing but was a victim of mankind's free will decisions that went against what God had supposedly intended, allowing evil to flourish and destroy lives. According to Christian doctrine God, being God cannot go back on his word and remove free will, that would be a lie and God cannot lie.

Okay. I think that I understand your point. Yet, according to the Christian doctrine, is god just and fair? If such is the case, then is it just and fair that the child should suffer due to the acts of its ancestors? Wouldn't a just God intercede for the sake of the innocent child? That is a dilemma.

According to doctrine no dilemma exists, mankind is responsible for all the suffering we endure because of the one aspect of God that purports he cannot go back on his word. Once it is spoken there is no taking it back, doesn't mean he's not just, doesn't mean he doesn't care it just means he put the solution in our hands and due to his nature cannot take it back. At least that's the way I understand it.

 

[xsited1]

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and just, then why do ignorant kids suffer?

How's this? God sent Kevin Carter to help this poor child. Instead, he chose not to help the girl. He committed suicide 3 months later.

 

[emilynghiem]

Okay. I think that I understand your point. Yet, according to the Christian doctrine, is god just and fair? If such is the case, then is it just and fair that the child should suffer due to the acts of its ancestors? Wouldn't a just God intercede for the sake of the innocent child? That is a dilemma.

Yes, God designed our human conscience to respond to one another. To seek spiritual peace and security, and to avoid things that cause pain and suffering. So we naturally respond to seeing injustice and suffering, and people feel called to change things in response. That is how God's will works through our free will, by our conscience, which connects us all (that is what Christ Jesus represents is this universal and central connection between our local free will and collective good will led by universal truth/love that God represents).

The places where God/we cannot intervene in time to prevent irreversible loss,
this motivates to look DEEPER into the cause of the dilemma, what caused the irreparable damage or catch-22, or crisis that could not be prevented. So instead of just waiting until "after the fact" to respond, when it is often too late to act, our consciences are then called to try to IDENTIFY and PREVENT the causes, and correct them by earlier intervention.

In this way, we eventually break the cycle of poverty, abuse, crime and suffering from retribution and past conflicts/wrongdoing. By resolving each issue as best we can, we eliminate all the suffering that can be prevented.

It may be too late for the thousands of children like this one who starve to death before help can be provided and solutions set up for the long term.

But Matt if you look at the learning curve, and how far we've come, you will see progress that is ESCALATING. Even as recently as Vietnam, we waited until AFTER the refugees were here on boats to learn how to set up sponsorship and relief, we were not prepared and created community organizations to deal with that. Then with later wars that caused refugees to flee across borders to other countries, people and organizations started sending relief and setting up help before the war escalated. They already knew the routine and what to expect. The internet has helped to organize relief almost instantaneously, if not at the first awareness of war and refugees suffering in different regions.

So we have come a LONG WAY since this picture first circulated.

If you take that path to its natural progression, you will see that humanity is converging into a more organized, interactive and cooperative society.

In the process, we develop better and better awareness and also science/medicine
to deal with issues earlier and earlier so more disease/death can be PREVENTED.

You mentioned Downs Syndrome, for example.
Either through genetic research and remedies that way, or also through
spiritual healing, these incidents can be corrected one day.
In MacNutt's book on HEALING, he relates one testimony where he witnessed
the gradual improvement, over a long period of time, in a child with Downs Syndrome
through healing prayer with the family. I have read of cases where Autism was completely overcome by early intervention with daily constant training in social interaction and communication skills. These things are not impossible.

We cannot defy the laws of nature, but we can work with them, with our natural healing energy, and the design of mind and body to heal itself when all obstacles are removed.

So the more we discover about the root causes of disease or blockages to healing and health, we can do more to prevent and correct these unnatural obstructions
and restore health, peace and harmony with the natural laws of life.

 

[mattskramer]

I'm only stating what is Christian doctrine, which is technically what your OP is addressing. And I answered the question by directing you to learn about what you are addressing before addressing it or do you want a complete dissertation on the subject of God, his word and it's relation to the doctrine of free will?
In brief I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really do want to understand how the Christian belief system works and try to summarize from a sociological/theological stand point.
According to Christian belief God gave mankind free will, he spoke it as an oath to man giving mankind the power to chose his/her own path. As any educated person knows every choice has it's consequences, cause and effect. The child did not have free will in the sense you are addressing but was a victim of mankind's free will decisions that went against what God had supposedly intended, allowing evil to flourish and destroy lives. According to Christian doctrine God, being God cannot go back on his word and remove free will, that would be a lie and God cannot lie.

Okay. I think that I understand your point. Yet, according to the Christian doctrine, is god just and fair? If such is the case, then is it just and fair that the child should suffer due to the acts of its ancestors? Wouldn't a just God intercede for the sake of the innocent child? That is a dilemma.

According to doctrine no dilemma exists, mankind is responsible for all the suffering we endure because of the one aspect of God that purports he cannot go back on his word. Once it is spoken there is no taking it back, doesn't mean he's not just, doesn't mean he doesn't care it just means he put the solution in our hands and due to his nature cannot take it back. At least that's the way I understand it.

Is it fair to the child?

 

[Ringel05]

Okay. I think that I understand your point. Yet, according to the Christian doctrine, is god just and fair? If such is the case, then is it just and fair that the child should suffer due to the acts of its ancestors? Wouldn't a just God intercede for the sake of the innocent child? That is a dilemma.

According to doctrine no dilemma exists, mankind is responsible for all the suffering we endure because of the one aspect of God that purports he cannot go back on his word. Once it is spoken there is no taking it back, doesn't mean he's not just, doesn't mean he doesn't care it just means he put the solution in our hands and due to his nature cannot take it back. At least that's the way I understand it.

Is it fair to the child?

Is it fair to anyone? The real question is what would we prefer, choice and all the good and bad it comes with or complete control of a divine power?
Now if one is concerned about the ill's that we inflict upon one another the other real question is it God's fault or ours? That also leads to the never ending question of inherent goodness or inherent evil.
For me, what I gleaned from my studies is in true Christianity it's is love of your fellow man that is paramount, Love all others as you would love yourself. Unfortunately not enough people follow that path, (and yes I too am guilty at times), think of what the world would be like if we did.
Just a thought.

 

[emilynghiem]

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and just, then why do ignorant kids suffer?

How's this? God sent Kevin Carter to help this poor child. Instead, he chose not to help the girl. He committed suicide 3 months later.

So now it's up to us to respond, to prevent other children from suffering and other people like this man from also feeling so helpless or aggrieved with pain he lost his will to live.

If we don't solve problems at the root, they continue to escalate until we act to identify and address the causes. That is how God's will works through us by our consciences, our free will and reason, and our faith and emotion as human beings who care and love, who feel the pain of others and feel motivated to seek peace and justice in response.

The call for truth and justice is the spirit of God and Jesus calling.
We all hear that call, and what matters is how we respond.

Do we accept personal responsibility and join in the cause,
or do we deny we have anything to do with receiving Justice into the world.

The truth is, the more we invite the spirit of truth and justice, and charity
into our relationships locally, then this creates the same globally worldwide.

This is done by forgiveness, correction, acceptance.
This process is thwarted and delayed by rejection, division and unforgiveness.

So it is us to us to address and resolve conflicts on the side of
forgiveness, correction and justice for all people equally, not just the people we care about but even the people we most blame as that is part of humanity also,
in order to achieve the same goals and vision that the religions such as Christianity teach through Jesus and God -- universal peace and salvation from sin and suffering,
by living in spiritual harmony and balance, as also the Buddhists teach and practice.

The more we are unified in goal and spirit, we will see less and less division, conflict, waste and suffering. We will still have diversity in class and religion, people of all walks of life and level of education or development, but we will be working and living together in harmony like students in schools that are not all in the same fields or levels either.

We are a lot closer to reaching this level of organization than ever before,
and the past ways of abusing economic and political resources are reaching an end
and begging the question of how to reform them to end the cycles of waste and abuse.

So that is why so many people are predicting a new world or society coming and an end to the old way of running things. If you look at the people already living by sustainable cooperative new ways, you will already see good working proven models for operating in the world that can be replicated and multiplied so all communities can be self-sustaining and healthy.

 

[emilynghiem]

Is it fair to the child?

Because it is clearly not fair and not natural,
that is what motivates us toward change.

If it was fair, if only criminals starved to death, we would assume the suffering was justified. Thus, we would have no motivation to change what is wrong with the picture.

Here, there is clearly something wrong.
It is designed that way, by cause and effect.
If there is unnatural imbalance or injustice, it will cause unnatural or unjust suffering.

So this moves us, by conscience, to find out the cause of imbalance and to remedy that.
Because otherwise, it isn't fair.

 

[emilynghiem]

Is it fair to the child?

P.S. Another side note to Matskramer:
If you look at the tribal conflicts and govt corruption in Africa,
you will see a whole system that is "not fair" to the populations there.

So this sign of unfairness and sickness with this one child, is like the tip of an iceberg,
pointing attention to a whole hotbed of corruption, of people in power
usurping resources to fight wars while the masses starve and suffer.

It isn't without cause.
There is a reason people like this child are left to suffer and starve
in one of the world continents most known for its richness in resources,
both mineral and biological, in culture and in the people.

If we don't solve the problems with corruption in Africa, but continue to let them
fight off their own wars, kill of their own people, in mass genocides and rapes.

The problems escalate and escalate, and lead to this picture seen by the world.
So eventually the call for justice is heard by enough people who will step in
and do more to end the genocide and corruption that has devastated not
only African villages and nations but has also been exposed in the Haiti crisis.

Secondary Note: If you want to hear another unjust story coming out of Africa,
as an example of how injustice and division escalates until more is done to
resolve the root conflict, look up the story on the volunteer who was about
to leave Africa after finishing her work observing a voting process. Because
she was white, she was mistaken as a member of the European oppressive
class, and lynched to death by an angry mob. And this was a volunteer trying
to help the local people to overcome oppression through fair elections and voting.

The case ended up going through a truth commission set up by Mandela, where
the men responsible for the killing confessed and cooperated with authorities,
even apologized publicly and to the family for their mistake, in exchange for
amnesty as a political crime. So it was an extremely tragic, humbling and
expensive mistake and lesson to learn, that cost a young woman her life.

And the only reward or justice that may come from this is greater awareness
and sensitivity against political violence, that indirectly will improve the community
and people she was trying to help.

It makes no sense on the surface, why a socially conscious volunteer, who was
doing things to help other people, ended up as an unjust victim of the racial and political
strife she was working to resolve. Totally unjust.

But again, BECAUSE it was so unjust, this motivated the people to take action
toward change. Had the men killed a criminal abuser, people would say the
political violence was DESERVED, and would continue taking laws into their
own hands (without due process) and trusting this is justice at work!

But because this was NOT justice, but ended up killing an innocent person
who was basically "executed without any trial or due process"
her death ended up emphasizing why you don't resort to vigilante justice
and political violence,
but why civilized systems are needed for peace and democracy
in order to seek justice the right way, not this way.

That was not fair at all.
Tragically unfair, especially since this was a volunteer working for social justice!

But again, if nobody did enough to stop political violence, but kept using
it as a means to an end, then it took losing someone like her before
people wake up and realize that way of violence is just as wrong.
After it cost an innocent volunteer her life.

 

[JohnA]

I'm only stating what is Christian doctrine, which is technically what your OP is addressing. And I answered the question by directing you to learn about what you are addressing before addressing it or do you want a complete dissertation on the subject of God, his word and it's relation to the doctrine of free will?
In brief I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really do want to understand how the Christian belief system works and try to summarize from a sociological/theological stand point.
According to Christian belief God gave mankind free will, he spoke it as an oath to man giving mankind the power to chose his/her own path. As any educated person knows every choice has it's consequences, cause and effect. The child did not have free will in the sense you are addressing but was a victim of mankind's free will decisions that went against what God had supposedly intended, allowing evil to flourish and destroy lives. According to Christian doctrine God, being God cannot go back on his word and remove free will, that would be a lie and God cannot lie.

Okay. I think that I understand your point. Yet, according to the Christian doctrine, is god just and fair? If such is the case, then is it just and fair that the child should suffer due to the acts of its ancestors? Wouldn't a just God intercede for the sake of the innocent child? That is a dilemma.

According to doctrine no dilemma exists, mankind is responsible for all the suffering we endure because of the one aspect of God that purports he cannot go back on his word. Once it is spoken there is no taking it back, doesn't mean he's not just, doesn't mean he doesn't care it just means he put the solution in our hands and due to his nature cannot take it back. At least that's the way I understand it.

hes a FUCKING god aint he he can do what he likes.he is answerable to nobody so he can take it back
your bullshit gets more silly every post

 

[Ravi]

sigh...so what you are saying, Emily, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that God created the child and allowed the child to suffer as a teaching tool for the rest of humanity.

 

[emilynghiem]

sigh...so what you are saying, Emily, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that God created the child and allowed the child to suffer as a teaching tool for the rest of humanity.

Hi Reva: You don't have to see it or say it that way.
* If it adds more ill will and division, then it is better NOT to,
if the point is to solve social problems causing this kind of suffering.
* If it helps brings comfort and inspiration to someone, to think that even in death,
there is a greater purpose and benefit being served, sometimes it HELPS people
to think that way, so that is fine also. Whatever helps people to bring out the better side of life.

Whether you want to attribute to God's will, or to human nature, to us who are
"looking at this poor child and discussing and learning ideas from it."

THAT is what is happening: we are witnessing proof of unjust suffering and trying to learn from it
in order to have a better understanding, either for our own sake or for humanity as well.

You don't have to say or believe that "God created the child for this purpose"
(Who can ever prove that?)
But we CAN agree to the fact that this injustice motivates change for the better.

But we could reach an agreement, by cause and effect, by the way the human conscience works, that the effect of the unjust suffering and starvation of this child and others in poverty
DOES tend toward change in seeking social justice to end this kind of thing!

Whatever you want to attribute that patten to

Human nature
natural laws
divine laws by God if you believe that

The immediate cause and effect is the SAME in reality
That part of the process, we might agree on:

The child suffers unnaturally and unjustly
Other people witness this
And are motivated to change something toward resolution
because we feel compassion by conscience

We know something is WRONG with this picture.
And we feel we can do something more to correct whatever we blame.

If we blame different things, that's fine, we can fix different things!
We will still make the world a better place, however we frame
the cause and effect we are working within to try to solve
the problem as we see it. We don't even have to agree
on all of it, to participate in the SAME process of improving society toward social justice.

So if we stick to where we agree, we can do more to work
effectively and in cooperation to change things for the better.

The tendency toward good will in human nature/conscience
is universal, whether we call that God's will or not.
We are motivated by love, that is how we are designed to respond.