Ideas for fixing minimum wage.

[Toronado3800]

I really think our current systems just need tweaked, not abandoned. In the 1930's we had to adjust to not having a frontier for big government to give away as a safety net. No need to reinvent the wheel here, I'm just talking about saving this once a decade minimum wage spike tobmake business more predictable.

In the 1930s, FDR seized upon the Great Depression as a pretext to expand the progressivism Wilson institutionalized under the cover of WWI. Just because we've done something stupid and damaging doesn't mean we should stick with it as a precedent.

That New Deal is America as it has been a functioning Super Power. Any other change is radical.

Also before we talk about the good ol small government days of the 1870's or whenever, remember the 19th century was one of exploiting out purchases/conquests. Instead of giving out welfare dollars big government gave away land across the continent to individuals and businesses alike.

It would be like FDR's work for welfare programs. Lay track or build any kind of house and you get land. Go to work for the CCC and you get money. FWIW I generally support THAT kind of this for that welfare more than some f our current programs.

Translation: All that government spending is great graft for grifters.

Were the U.P. and C.P. grifters? On some level. I'm familiar with the Credit Mobilier scam. Was the cross country railroad a bad idea?

Were all them farmers grifters?

All them CCC employees?

Trading this for that sounds like Capitalism and the government had a very real interest in making the west feel like part of the country. FDR had a very real and immenant issue in preventing a socialist revolution. Remember the Depression started in 29.

You have bought into the economic myths regarding the stock market crash, the Great Depression and the New Deal.

...
2. The New Deal Got the United States out of the Great Depression

The typical American history class has spread the notion that the New Deal was crucial to rein in the Great Depression. Although this assertion remains strong among the intelligentsia and general populace, it does not hold up to scrutiny of economic performance during that time.

While politically popular in areas where FDR performed poorly in elections, his Alphabet Soup of government agencies and programs did not even put a dent in the recession. In fact, the New Deal exacerbated and prolonged it.

Economist Stephen Moore provides a clear depiction of the New Deal, one where the United States was still stuck in the economic doldrums. During this period, the average unemployment rate hoveredaround 18 percent, and American industrial production and national income fell almost by one third. It wasn’t until the end of World War II that the US economy finally rebounded...

5 Myths about the Great Depression and New Deal

So we agree grifters dontake advantage of the big governemnt programs of the 19th and 20th centuries but we also "get them" sometimes?

Wandering to the New Deal...

I'll let the GDP chart speak for me.

The destruction of virtually every other meaningful economy world wide sure did change things. Even now 70 years later we have to consider whats a natural readjustment and what is "us loosing our place"

 

[toomuchtime_]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

A minimum wage would for the most part only effect low skilled workers, and in the age of AI, a large number of these jobs could be eliminated by smart machines. The only reason these jobs exist at all now is that they cost less than the machines. A minimum wage of any significance would cost low skilled workers their jobs and create new jobs for higher skilled workers that design and build smart machines. The lesson here is forget about these political slogans about a minimum wage and encourage each worker to create his own minimum wage by acquiring higher paying skills.

Then it should grow less relavent with time.

How about we adjust Federal minimum wage forbthe CPI since the last increase then leave it tied to the Consumer Price Index? Hopefully after awhile everyone is making more like u say

What I said was many of the people you claim to be helping will lose their jobs to smart machines and the new jobs created will be out of reach for the low skilled workers you would put out of work.

But all I'm talking about is holding the status quo on minimum wage?

What you are talking about is trying to make a political slogan appear to make sense. Low skilled jobs have been disappearing for decades due to advances in technology and this will continue to happen and the pace is increasing. There is already a natural minimum wage in effect; it is the least workers are willing to accept and the most employers are willing to pay.

 

[Slade3200]

How about government pass a minimum wage requirement for government jobs and leave private business to set their own standards and compete? I’m open to setting standards on large corporations that control marketplaces and employ a large amount of citizens however I don’t think small businesses should be regulated in the same way.

 

[boedicca]

In the 1930s, FDR seized upon the Great Depression as a pretext to expand the progressivism Wilson institutionalized under the cover of WWI. Just because we've done something stupid and damaging doesn't mean we should stick with it as a precedent.

That New Deal is America as it has been a functioning Super Power. Any other change is radical.

Also before we talk about the good ol small government days of the 1870's or whenever, remember the 19th century was one of exploiting out purchases/conquests. Instead of giving out welfare dollars big government gave away land across the continent to individuals and businesses alike.

It would be like FDR's work for welfare programs. Lay track or build any kind of house and you get land. Go to work for the CCC and you get money. FWIW I generally support THAT kind of this for that welfare more than some f our current programs.

Translation: All that government spending is great graft for grifters.

Were the U.P. and C.P. grifters? On some level. I'm familiar with the Credit Mobilier scam. Was the cross country railroad a bad idea?

Were all them farmers grifters?

All them CCC employees?

Trading this for that sounds like Capitalism and the government had a very real interest in making the west feel like part of the country. FDR had a very real and immenant issue in preventing a socialist revolution. Remember the Depression started in 29.

You have bought into the economic myths regarding the stock market crash, the Great Depression and the New Deal.

...
2. The New Deal Got the United States out of the Great Depression

The typical American history class has spread the notion that the New Deal was crucial to rein in the Great Depression. Although this assertion remains strong among the intelligentsia and general populace, it does not hold up to scrutiny of economic performance during that time.

While politically popular in areas where FDR performed poorly in elections, his Alphabet Soup of government agencies and programs did not even put a dent in the recession. In fact, the New Deal exacerbated and prolonged it.

Economist Stephen Moore provides a clear depiction of the New Deal, one where the United States was still stuck in the economic doldrums. During this period, the average unemployment rate hoveredaround 18 percent, and American industrial production and national income fell almost by one third. It wasn’t until the end of World War II that the US economy finally rebounded...

5 Myths about the Great Depression and New Deal

So we agree grifters dontake advantage of the big governemnt programs of the 19th and 20th centuries but we also "get them" sometimes?

Wandering to the New Deal...

I'll let the GDP chart speak for me.

The destruction of virtually every other meaningful economy world wide sure did change things. Even now 70 years later we have to consider whats a natural readjustment and what is "us loosing our place"

That graph doesn't support what you think it does.

 

[Oddball]

"Minimum wage"; two words....I hear two different words: "price fixing".

Let's reverse this minimum wage model....Let's say I'm one of those evil, greedy, stovepipe hat wearing, rat bastard businessmen, that progs are always trying to paint them as....Let's say I get together with the rest of the local evil, greedy, stovepipe hat wearing, rat bastard businessmen, in order to fix wages so low that the poor, downtrodden, shoeless, rag-wearing serfs don't get paid enough to live in their cardboard boxes.....We'd all be slapped with an anti-trust lawsuit so fast, that it'd make our heads spin hard enough to make our stovepipe hats fall off.

But have this special class of do-gooders known as politicians come in and fix prices, ostensibly in the favor of the poor suffering serfs, and this immoral model suddenly becomes the savior of the lower classes?

 

[Wyatt earp]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

So you want to make it harder and more expensive for employers to hire people right?

There are some jobs that do not merit high pay just like there are some employees that don't merit a raise every year

The idea that a job must pay enough for anyone to live a defined lifestyle is ridiculous.

A job picking up piles of dog crap pays what it's worth to the market if you want to earn more then better yourself so that your skill set includes more than the minimum required to pick up dog crap.

Unemployment isn't a problem.

I also didn't say much about increasing minimum wage, just tying it to inflation. If anything that saves some time in congress.

FWIW, now that you mention it, tying minimum wage to CEO pay just might help companies stay more profitable.

Give me one good reason why you want to raise it national?


.

 

[task0778]

If a company, city, county, or state wants to enact the minimum wage to an economic index of some kind, go ahead and have at it. Such a policy will inevitably cost you jobs and benefits, but you can try it if you want to. But a national m-wage is another story, I don't see the need or the right for anyone to dictate to someone else in another jurisdiction the requirement to pay their workers whatever the increased amount will be. And automatically increasing the m-wage is precisely that.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make centralized price fixing work this time around?

Fixing Standards for a State or the Union is where it starts.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make price fixing work this time around?

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

tax cut economics makes it harder to budget to spend on infrastructure.

 

[danielpalos]

The obvious fix is to get rid of the minimum wage altogether. Individuals should be free to set the the price for their labor.

Ideally yes.

But we don't live in that ideal world where socialism or capitalism really work in their pure form. Too much of a minimum wage and people get lazy. None and you have this race to the bottom and the power of money takes over.

So I argue about things in the middle.

This seems to be the history of how "high" the minimum wage is. Them peaks and valleys are stupid and just make busy work for politicians.

Minimum wage in the United States - Wikipedia

So what you are promoting is a corrupt distortion of natural market forces.

Capitalism and Socialism are not morally equivalent systems. The former is based on Freedom. The Latter is based on Authoritarian Slavery. Compromising by mixing the two doesn't improve natural markets. In reality, it just makes more poor people.

The last three centuries are what you get from Capitalism; the prior periods are what you get under authoritarian regimes.

View attachment 228352

Sometimes I think on here we find battles where they are not necessary. I'm not advocating we return to a system where some king's whim makes right or whatever.

Are you arguing for lawless capitalism where the ability to pay folks makes might?

What you are advocating for is the socialist bureaucrat's whim, which is even worse than the king's. At least with a King, there is one throat to cut. Anonymous bureaucrats are never held accountable and do a great deal of damage.

equal protection of the law leads to automatic stabilization.

 

[danielpalos]

If a company, city, county, or state wants to enact the minimum wage to an economic index of some kind, go ahead and have at it. Such a policy will inevitably cost you jobs and benefits, but you can try it if you want to. But a national m-wage is another story, I don't see the need or the right for anyone to dictate to someone else in another jurisdiction the requirement to pay their workers whatever the increased amount will be. And automatically increasing the m-wage is precisely that.

Why should it be a problem, with unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed?

 

[Wyatt earp]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make price fixing work this time around?

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

tax cut economics makes it harder to budget to spend on infrastructure.

No one takes a liberal seriously on economics..


.
.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make price fixing work this time around?

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

tax cut economics makes it harder to budget to spend on infrastructure.

No one takes a liberal seriously on economics..


.
.

we take the right wing even less seriously.

 

[Wyatt earp]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make price fixing work this time around?

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

tax cut economics makes it harder to budget to spend on infrastructure.

No one takes a liberal seriously on economics..


.
.

we take the right wing even less seriously.

We think you are a cartoon character


.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make price fixing work this time around?

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

tax cut economics makes it harder to budget to spend on infrastructure.

No one takes a liberal seriously on economics..


.
.

we take the right wing even less seriously.

We think you are a cartoon character


.

vaporware is all the right wing has.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

tax cut economics makes it harder to budget to spend on infrastructure.

No one takes a liberal seriously on economics..


.
.

we take the right wing even less seriously.

We think you are a cartoon character


.

vaporware is all the right wing has.

You silly



.

 

[Indeependent]

Do MW proponents presume know the operational costs of every business?

 

[Oddball]

Fixing Standards for a State or the Union is where it starts.

That is the most perverted misrepresentation of the weights and measures clause I have ever encountered...But no more perverted than than your economic delusions.

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

So you want to make it harder and more expensive for employers to hire people right?

There are some jobs that do not merit high pay just like there are some employees that don't merit a raise every year

The idea that a job must pay enough for anyone to live a defined lifestyle is ridiculous.

A job picking up piles of dog crap pays what it's worth to the market if you want to earn more then better yourself so that your skill set includes more than the minimum required to pick up dog crap.

Unemployment isn't a problem.

I also didn't say much about increasing minimum wage, just tying it to inflation. If anything that saves some time in congress.

FWIW, now that you mention it, tying minimum wage to CEO pay just might help companies stay more profitable.

Give me one good reason why you want to raise it national?


.

I was merely talking about tying it to inflation or the CPI or whatever as this debate is starting to come up again. It gets tiresome every decade or so having to go raise it.

 

[Oddball]

Do MW proponents presume know the operational costs of every business?

They presume to know an awful lot of things that they can't possibly know.