I wish nuclear weapons did not exist

[harryo]

Refute what points, kid?

thanks for proving my points

 

[Unkotare]

thanks for proving my points

Go play with you crayons, kid.

 

[harryo]

Go play with you crayons, kid.

thanks again

 

[Stryder50]

Using the Atomic bomb on Japan was not easy decision for Truman to make from all sources. Patton believed war between America and Soviet union was going to happen and if not for nukes maybe it would have. i would bet on America in a conventional war with USSR.

Truman's main option, ongoing game plan, was to invade Japan, likely resulting in about a million Allied causalities ~ dead and wounded, and likely a few million, or more, Japanese causalities, civilian and military, KIA and WIA. There was a huge human lives costs (lots more of blood and treasure) in the future offering if the Allies ~ mostly USA, were to invade Japan. Such invasion slated for about Fall/Autumn of 1945.

As it was, by @mid 1945 most of Japan's cities and industry capacity had already been bombed to rubble and near non-productivity due to the strategic bombing campaign of USAAF B-29s, - save for a few cities spared from the "target list" as intended subjects of the future use of the atomic bomb to better gauge it's real destructive potential, which remained a large unknown still in the late Summer of 1945.

Truman's options by July 1945 were one of two;

1) Continue the regular program of strategic bombing of Japan's cities and military bases to be followed by an amphibious invasion such has happened often in the War against the Axis Powers, enough to date in both the ETO and PTO.

OR ....

2) See if the new weapons technology of the "Atomic Bomb" was on a scale large enough to overcome the resistance of Japan's fanatical leadership to concede to "unconditional surrender".

From Truman's perspective, and that of the Western Allies (USA & UK), it was a situation of "might as well give it a shot" since there was little to lose ~ might have to invade and fight on Japan's Homeland anyway; versus the new weapons tech might convince the leadership of Japan to finally realize their cause was long lost and only further devastation into a wasteland lay in the near future for their nation.

Fortunately for Japan, and the world in general, the examples of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would provide a lesson of what horrors could happen were anyone to escalate into full atomic/nuclear weapons use/exchange.

I'm of the opinion that the loss of these two cities and their hundreds of thousands of lives, resulted in the saving of hundreds of cities and tens/hundreds of millions of lives in the decades to follow.

In the many times when East versus West came close to changing a Cold War into a Hot War, cooler and more rational minds would reflect back upon these two Japanese cities and realize that nothing was worth changing the rest of the World into similar results.

Surely some other solution could be found.

 

[1stNickD]

Once again, gross oversimplification that is barely even worth talking about. But fine, let me humor you for a moment.

No army until the 20th century ever had a "single weapon". They were mixed of different ones, normally one to offset the other.

But fine, if you have this magical army made up of all musketmen, I will simply throw together an army made up entirely of cavalry. Then sit back and laugh as they eat the liver of the musketmen.

Oh no, that is simply not how it works. And because the Generals were aware of that, they added in units of Pikemen, usually on the flanks to protect the musketmen. So the other side make an adaptation, and replaces some of their cavalry with heavy infantry. Now these units have some pretty good resistance to the muskets of the era, and they simply move towards the enemy. But then the other side sees that, and moves to crossbows, which have enough penetration power to cause problems to heavy infantry.

And want to know how your army with bows defeats an army filled with muskets? Simple, they sit in the defensive and wait for the muskets to come to them. Or they fight when the weather is in their favor.

Hahahahaha go back to bow and arrows if you choose to be slaughtered or be a slave.

 

[1stNickD]

But they do and I can't turn back time. At the least it should not have been allowed to develop beyond the atomic bomb. What do you think?

They saved millions and millions of lives when deployed. Had operation Overlord ben delayed by another year, its very likely those nukes would have been falling across Russia, England and the USA. The USA stopped after two because Japan surrendered in the war they started. Had Germany completed its nuclear ambitions, hitler would have leveled the earth them.

Anyone who thinks the world would be safer or that we would be safer if we just eliminated ours is either a complete fool or a traitor. Iran has promised to eliminate Israel from the map, total genocide on a level that would make the 1940's look like a kindergarten playdoh party. The only thing that might keep them in check is the promise from US and Israel that any attack on Israel will result in Iran becoming a total sheet of glass.

 

[Mushroom]

Truman's main option, ongoing game plan, was to invade Japan, likely resulting in about a million Allied causalities ~ dead and wounded, and likely a few million, or more, Japanese causalities, civilian and military, KIA and WIA. There was a huge human lives costs (lots more of blood and treasure) in the future offering if the Allies ~ mostly USA, were to invade Japan. Such invasion slated for about Fall/Autumn of 1945.

Actually, that is way short.

The Secretary of War was finding it hard to believe the "casualty estimates" that his highest ranking officers were giving him for an invasion of Japan. Especially as just the campaigns in the Philippines and Okinawa often resulted in far more casualties than they were trying to predict for taking out all of Mainland Japan. So he commissioned a study known as the "Shockley Report", by future Nobel Prize winner William Shockley.

And he used actual battlefield casualty statistics, length of combat for prior engagements with the Japanese, and other things that the other "experts" did not even consider. Including the horrible civilian death tolls from Saipan and Okinawa (mostly suicide or killings by Japanese soldiers to prevent their capture). And his report chilled most who read it.

On the Allied side, between 1.7 and 4 million casualties (400-800,000 fatalities). On the Japanese side, between 5 and 10 million deaths.

Most believe those figures were a major reason why the decision was made to use the bombs. An actual invasion would have quite literally "decimated" Japan, as roughly 1 in 7 would not have survived.

 

[LuckyDuck]

But they do and I can't turn back time. At the least it should not have been allowed to develop beyond the atomic bomb. What do you think?

Frankly, it would be better if gunpowder/explosives had never been invented, at least you would be face to face with your enemy, hacking away at each other, rather than getting your brains blown out from across a field or a mile away.

 

[Stryder50]

The Most Dangerous Film in the World​

“We thought this film was defective. But we were mistaken. This is how radiation looks.”

The Most Dangerous Film in the World

“We thought this film was defective. But we were mistaken. This is how radiation looks.”

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[Stryder50]

Frankly, it would be better if gunpowder/explosives had never been invented, at least you would be face to face with your enemy, hacking away at each other, rather than getting your brains blown out from across a field or a mile away.

Get back to us once your 95 pound girlfriend/wife is the victim of 2-3 thugs at about 200+ pounds each whom decide to rape~play with~abuse her and all you think she needs to defend herself is a nail-file, or pocket knife.

How "nice" to see the concern you have for the lessor and weaker in our society to become victims to those larger and stronger.

Hopefully your defective genes haven't been passed on to the future generations.

Meanwhile, strap a couple yellow armbands about yourself so if I ever see you getting stomped and kicked into upon the ground, I'll know not to apply my citizen's right of concealed carry of weapons/firearms and shouldn't intervene to protect your worthless ass from damage or death.

Good riddance to useless waste of human flesh.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Get back to us once your 95 pound girlfriend/wife is the victim of 2-3 thugs at about 200+ pounds each whom decide to rape~play with~abuse her and all you think she needs to defend herself is a nail-file, or pocket knife.

How "nice" to see the concern you have for the lessor and weaker in our society to become victims to those larger and stronger.

Hopefully your defective genes haven't been passed on to the future generations.

Meanwhile, strap a couple yellow armbands about yourself so if I ever see you getting stomped and kicked into upon the ground, I'll know not to apply my citizen's right of concealed carry of weapons/firearms and shouldn't intervene to protect your worthless ass from damage or death.

Good riddance to useless waste of human flesh.

How sad. Someone who just can't refrain from insulting others. I'm talking about armed conflict between armies.

 

[Stryder50]

How sad. Someone who just can't refrain from insulting others. I'm talking about armed conflict between armies.

And I'm talking about armed conflict in general which usually escalates from individual to nations/armies.

All one and the same, and essentially the same principles ~ considerations.

The "How sad." are the clueless and ignorant such as yourself, whom fail to think through.

 

[sparky]

~S~

 

[LuckyDuck]

And I'm talking about armed conflict in general which usually escalates from individual to nations/armies.

All one and the same, and essentially the same principles ~ considerations.

The "How sad." are the clueless and ignorant such as yourself, whom fail to think through.

A sad insulter, how small minded.

 

[Stryder50]

A sad insulter, how small minded.

Totally classic of "butt-hurt my feelings" small brain Leftist~psuedo-liberals.

I'm sure your girlfriend/wife/mother appreciates your lack of concern on regard to their protection.

Get back to me when you have something of real-world material and substance, not your emotion bruisings.