I really wish we could reasonably perform an experiment

[jillian]

No no no, do not sit there and try to tell me that Liberal individuals = Liberal state. Answer the question, yes or no.

You're not going to try and seriously tell me that Montana, Mississippi, Alaska, WV, Alabama, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Arkansas are all Liberal states are you?

Simple yes or no question.

And you still haven't defined what makes someone a Conservative yet.

i love it... you can always tell a rightwingnut by their o/p...even if they do the pretend... gee...what would happen if... thing.

it's funny watching him twist himself into a pretzel, though.

lol..

Do you ever have anything to contribute here? It seems all your posts are name calling and insulting emoticons.
I really wonder about the depth of your knowledge. Actually I can guess it pretty easily.

so spaketh one of the most useless posters on the board.

please, go whine to the mods again...

stalker.

 

[saveliberty]

So the facts that your study is completely outdated and the largest bailout states and entitlement queeens are now Democratic leaning states is jsut to be ignored.

Do you have a more up-to-date study? And as I just showed, the states certainly didn't really change in terms of eight years for the elections. You offer up no evidence of your own, instead attacking mine.

Care to actually give some evidence or are you just going to attack my links with some more baseless accusations?

You clearly didn't read what I posted in the first place also.

In 2005, California was looking pretty strong: Top 100 Recipients of Federal Assistance for FY 2005

Here's some 2006 data: California received 10.3 percent of the total distribution of federal expenditures while Texas received 6.8 percent, followed by New York at 6.2 percent.

Find Out Where Your Tax Dollars Went | NowPublic News Coverage

This little gem is a double whammy for you:

Schwarzenegger and the legislative leaders made a pilgrimage to Washington on this theme last week. The governor's claim was that the state receives only 78 cents back for every dollar of federal tax we generate, so somehow we're "subsidizing" the states that get more and incurring red ink in Sacramento in the process. The economics of the state budget deficit being of great interest to individual taxpayers and business owners alike, it's proper to subject this claim to some scrutiny.

Whether there's even factual grounds for the governor's claim is subject to debate. His number dates from 2005, and the formula underlying it has been criticized for supposedly overestimating tax payments. (The Washington-based Tax Foundation, which created the formula, defends its methodology.)

Last week, U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer shot back that while California may indeed have been a "donor state" in the past, at the moment it's a recipient state to the tune of about $1.45 in inflow for every dollar in federal taxes paid.

Stop looking to feds to cure California's budget crisis - Los Angeles Times

Feel better or wishing you hadn't pushed it?

 

[Leweman]

Not as a whole they arent buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut they do have plenty of liberal areas and liberal individuals. So just like you choose to ignore who the money is coming from in the blue states you are going to choose to ignore who the money is going to in the red states. I dunno if you can't understand maybe or you purposely are just dodging it.

No no no, do not sit there and try to tell me that Liberal individuals = Liberal state. Answer the question, yes or no.

You're not going to try and seriously tell me that Montana, Mississippi, Alaska, WV, Alabama, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Arkansas are all Liberal states are you?

Simple yes or no question.

And you still haven't defined what makes someone a Conservative yet.

Friend you have some logic and deeper thinking issues going on. First of all I dont even know what that first sentence means. You need to clear that up for me. What does a liberal state =? You for some reason are acting like states are individuals in themselves instead of being made up of individuals. Its freaking me out. As far as a conservative definition I suppose is pretty weighted. Id say conservative as I see it prefers biggger government at local levels and less intervention on the way up. They believe in the free market. They believe that life isnt fair and its impossible for everyone to equal. If everyone was equally successful then noone would be successful. They beleive in personal responsibility and personal freedom. They believe in lower taxes and limited spending. Defense and the safety of our nation being the most important role of the federal government. They believe in a literal view of the constitution and if that view isnt in accordance with the view of americans then we can change that view using the process allowed by the constitution to change it. Too easy. Judges dont have to change the constitution. Thats pretty general because there is much more. And dont confuse conservatism with republicans because they are not one in the same. Conservatism is its own thing. If republicans are not following it then they are not being conservatives. Now Im sorry I wrote that pretty quickly without much thought so it wont express everything but its the best I can do for now in a short period. Hope its not to hard to read. These are just my opinions also. What do you feel is a good definition of liberalism if you dont mind me asking?

 

[jillian]

did you even look at the article? it opens with:

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger says the state is running a budget deficit because we pay more in federal taxes than we get back in federal spending. The biggest cause of the deficit is the governor.

in this particular instance, you find boxer's numbers more useful...

that's pretty funny.

 

[Modbert]

did you even look at the article? it opens with:

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger says the state is running a budget deficit because we pay more in federal taxes than we get back in federal spending. The biggest cause of the deficit is the governor.

in this particular instance, you find boxer's numbers more useful...

that's pretty funny.

No clue on where Boxer gets her numbers from. Saveliberty sure is trying his darnest to actually invalidate my link without actually posting any evidence of his own. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about, especially since he originally accused the website I got the study from to be the one behind the study.

 

[Modbert]

Friend you have some logic and deeper thinking issues going on. First of all I dont even know what that first sentence means. You need to clear that up for me. What does a liberal state =? You for some reason are acting like states are individuals in themselves instead of being made up of individuals. Its freaking me out. As far as a conservative definition I suppose is pretty weighted. Id say conservative as I see it prefers biggger government at local levels and less intervention on the way up. They believe in the free market. They believe that life isnt fair and its impossible for everyone to equal. If everyone was equally successful then noone would be successful. They beleive in personal responsibility and personal freedom. They believe in lower taxes and limited spending. Defense and the safety of our nation being the most important role of the federal government. They believe in a literal view of the constitution and if that view isnt in accordance with the view of americans then we can change that view using the process allowed by the constitution to change it. Too easy. Judges dont have to change the constitution. Thats pretty general because there is much more. And dont confuse conservatism with republicans because they are not one in the same. Conservatism is its own thing. If republicans are not following it then they are not being conservatives. Now Im sorry I wrote that pretty quickly without much thought so it wont express everything but its the best I can do for now in a short period. Hope its not to hard to read. These are just my opinions also. What do you feel is a good definition of liberalism if you dont mind me asking?

So wait, you actually gave me no policy on what makes one a Conservative, just a bunch of feel good slogans. Care to give me some actual policy positions that this supposedly Conservative country would run on?

I'll answer your question once you answer mine.

 

[Dr.House]

The country does well with checks & balances....

It's obvious the "one party rule" experiment has been a failure...

 

[Leweman]

Friend you have some logic and deeper thinking issues going on. First of all I dont even know what that first sentence means. You need to clear that up for me. What does a liberal state =? You for some reason are acting like states are individuals in themselves instead of being made up of individuals. Its freaking me out. As far as a conservative definition I suppose is pretty weighted. Id say conservative as I see it prefers biggger government at local levels and less intervention on the way up. They believe in the free market. They believe that life isnt fair and its impossible for everyone to equal. If everyone was equally successful then noone would be successful. They beleive in personal responsibility and personal freedom. They believe in lower taxes and limited spending. Defense and the safety of our nation being the most important role of the federal government. They believe in a literal view of the constitution and if that view isnt in accordance with the view of americans then we can change that view using the process allowed by the constitution to change it. Too easy. Judges dont have to change the constitution. Thats pretty general because there is much more. And dont confuse conservatism with republicans because they are not one in the same. Conservatism is its own thing. If republicans are not following it then they are not being conservatives. Now Im sorry I wrote that pretty quickly without much thought so it wont express everything but its the best I can do for now in a short period. Hope its not to hard to read. These are just my opinions also. What do you feel is a good definition of liberalism if you dont mind me asking?

So wait, you actually gave me no policy on what makes one a Conservative, just a bunch of feel good slogans. Care to give me some actual policy positions that this supposedly Conservative country would run on?

I'll answer your question once you answer mine.

Really? You could go to any website out there and search what conservatives would support as far as policy. If you want me to go down issue by issue of what conservatives would beleive I can do that but thats not going to be what I believe. I take everything on an issue by issue basis and people think thats crazy or almost hippocritical because theyve become so attached to one side or the other so they agree on all points of one side. Its what I hate most about politics. I might be arguing with you on this tax revenue and dispersement thing tonight but by tomorrow I might be agreeing with you on another issue.

 

[Modbert]

Really? You could go to any website out there and search what conservatives would support as far as policy. If you want me to go down issue by issue of what conservatives would beleive I can do that but thats not going to be what I believe. I take everything on an issue by issue basis and people think thats crazy or almost hippocritical because theyve become so attached to one side or the other so they agree on all points of one side. Its what I hate most about politics.

I'm not looking for any website's definition of Conservatism though, I'm looking for yours. I want specifics. Are you going to give them or will you dodge again? Tell me, what do you think makes one a Conservative that this Conservative country will run on.

Also. You said this:

I take everything on an issue by issue basis and people think thats crazy or almost hippocritical because theyve become so attached to one side or the other so they agree on all points of one side. Its what I hate most about politics

Why the hell would you post a thread like this then if you think that? Seriously, why would you post about something you supposedly hate?

 

[jillian]

Really? You could go to any website out there and search what conservatives would support as far as policy. If you want me to go down issue by issue of what conservatives would beleive I can do that but thats not going to be what I believe. I take everything on an issue by issue basis and people think thats crazy or almost hippocritical because theyve become so attached to one side or the other so they agree on all points of one side. Its what I hate most about politics.

that's pretty funny...

in my first post on this thread, i pointed out that i could count the true conservatives on this board on my hand.

i know very well what true conservative ideology is... and most of the self-proclaimed conservatives here are reactionaries or radicals...

hence YOU being asked what YOU believe a conservative is.

 

[Leweman]

Really? You could go to any website out there and search what conservatives would support as far as policy. If you want me to go down issue by issue of what conservatives would beleive I can do that but thats not going to be what I believe. I take everything on an issue by issue basis and people think thats crazy or almost hippocritical because theyve become so attached to one side or the other so they agree on all points of one side. Its what I hate most about politics.

I'm not looking for any website's definition of Conservatism though, I'm looking for yours. I want specifics. Are you going to give them or will you dodge again? Tell me, what do you think makes one a Conservative that this Conservative country will run on.

Also. You said this:

I take everything on an issue by issue basis and people think thats crazy or almost hippocritical because theyve become so attached to one side or the other so they agree on all points of one side. Its what I hate most about politics

Why the hell would you post a thread like this then if you think that? Seriously, why would you post about something you supposedly hate?

Cause Im sick of all the talk and want to see what would happen. For the entire span of this country both sides take credit when things go well and blame the other side when things go bad. If they seperated and formed governments based on their ideals and philosphies and those states either thrived or failed then we would know, beyond a doubt which side, if either would deserve the credit. Once again you dont take the time to think deeper and outside the box. Youve already got me labled and therefore Im already wrong no matter what I say. Well done my friend.

 

[jillian]

you saw what a so-called conservative government was for 8 years....

and we ended in a financial meltdown.... and in two unnecessary wars.

still waiting...

 

[Modbert]

Cause Im sick of all the talk and want to see what would happen. For the entire span of this country both sides take credit when things go well and blame the other side when things go bad. If they seperated and formed governments based on their ideals and philosphies and those states either thrived or failed then we would know, beyond a doubt which side, if either would deserve the credit. Once again you dont take the time to think deeper and outside the box. Youve already got me labled and therefore Im already wrong no matter what I say. Well done my friend.

So wait, you're sick of all the talk so you want to listen to people talk about it some more? It's not like what is said here is going to happen.

I'm still waiting for your answers. I'm not labeling you by the way. I'm giving you a opportunity to give me a precise answer. The floor is yours, again.

 

[edthecynic]

We could divide a section of the country in half. One half of this section would govern by conservative ideals the other would govern using liberal philosophies. I wonder how each government would do. Is this possible? You would think that these days some computer simulations could be done to determine an outcome. What are some thoughts or ideas on this?

again we see the CON$ervative desire to DIVIDE the people of this great country into two OPPOSING GROUPS and destroy it from within.

May 12, 2008
RUSH: I maintain that moderates and independents are Democrats. Because, by definition, if someone or some organization is not conservative, it's by definition going to be liberal, not moderate, not independent, it's going to be liberal

 

[edthecynic]

Lets consider this lil analogy. Lets say I live in a small area of 10 people that represents a state. lets say 4 of these people pay 75 percent of the taxes. That means 6 pay 25 percent of the taxes. Now lets say three of the 75 percent vote conservative thats 56 percent of the income from the state is from conservatives even if 7 of 10 people in that state vote for a liberal candidate. So the state is a "blue" state even though the majority of the money comes from conservatives. So do you see the flaw in the study? Its not the most accurate representation but its definately easy to see what Im saying and how the study is flawed.

The problem with your analogy is it is not based in reality.

Liberals on the average earn more than CON$, so on the average the majority of the tax revenue comes from Libs no matter what the state.

 

[hjmick]

Where have you been? Look around and you can see exactly how things would work out for the liberal model.

Bankruptcy, destitution, poverty.

Look at Illinois and California. Look at Detroit.

You mean the so called Liberal California that voted for Prop 8? The one with the Republican Governor? That California?

Didn't you get the memo? The only reason Prop 8 passed was because the voters were too stupid and confused by the wording to know what they were voting for...

 

[Modbert]

Didn't you get the memo? The only reason Prop 8 passed was because the voters were too stupid and confused by the wording to know what they were voting for...

Must of ended up in my spam box.

Did you get that TPS report I sent you?

 

[edthecynic]

Yep my analogy is a complete what if, but is extremely probable because the study choose not to break down the tax burden the way it should be broken down. Not my fault that study wasn't done well. Oh well. For some reason they did this one which stops at the point that suits them instead of breaking it down further. hmmmmmm how odd. They half assed it. Maybe they will come out with one that has some validity soon.

Answer my question.

You're not going to try and seriously tell me that Montana, Mississippi, Alaska, WV, Alabama, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Arkansas are all Liberal states are you?

Not as a whole they arent buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut they do have plenty of liberal areas and liberal individuals. So just like you choose to ignore who the money is coming from in the blue states you are going to choose to ignore who the money is going to in the red states. I dunno if you can't understand maybe or you purposely are just dodging it.

CON$ habitually say that the people who earn the most money pay the most taxes. So you are ignoring the fact that Libs earn more money on the average than CON$ and therefore Libs on the average pay more taxes no matter what color the state.

 

[hjmick]

Didn't you get the memo? The only reason Prop 8 passed was because the voters were too stupid and confused by the wording to know what they were voting for...

Must of ended up in my spam box.

Did you get that TPS report I sent you?

I think my box is full...

Here, take a read:

Did Prop 8 Voters Know What They Were Voting For? - Newsweek

 

[Modbert]

I think my box is full...

Here, take a read:

Did Prop 8 Voters Know What They Were Voting For? - Newsweek

Yeah, I've read that. I don't put much into that. I'm sure some people did do that, however not enough to change the results. Considering how much we heard about it across the country, I can only imagine how it was in California.