I pray for a Republican Win

[Dr Grump]

What did I expect?

Well, let's see ... I didn't assault Clinton so I did not expect to be assaulted in return by ignoramuses who can only define people as Republican or Democrat.

I think I addressed the rest of your post in another thread. Republicans didn't start the shit. They aren't even really good at it or they'd already OWN the Dems.

There also appears to be an inability to differentiate between attacking and questioning political candidates running for the Presidency of the US. I refer you back to the ignoramus paragraph.

And it looks like you are REAL concerned with who is going to try and do best for us as indicated by your initial post in this thread.

I never said I wasn't concerned. I said I was hoping for a Repub win (of which I am sincere). However, I am not hoping for a Repub win because I like their policies, I am hoping for the win because the absolutely terrible job Bush and his puppet masters has done will be undeservedly blamed on the Dems. Recessions go in cycles and tend to last anywhere between 2-4 years...and it's then that the Dems should have a shot. Because if the Dems try and fix things they'll have to do things that are unpopular, which means they'll be voted out next time even if they are doing a good job. So, let McCain take the fall.

By the by, do you really think I was accusing you PERSONALLY of assaulting Clinton...

 

[Toro]

McCain would be fine as President.

 

[Dr Grump]

McCain would be fine as President.

The organ grinder's monkey would make a fine president compared to the guy currently occupying the White House...

 

[TopGunna]

So... you're praying for a Republican win... and that they continue screwing up America. Why would you want this?

Oh, so you can say, "I told you so!!"

And it's we Americans who are cynical about politics - gotcha!

 

[rayboyusmc]

Republicans didn't start the shit.

Atwater - Rove.--- There are some who may have started some of the shit.

Harvey Leroy "Lee" Atwater (February 26, 1951 – March 29, 1991) was a political consultant and strategist to the Republican party in the United States. He was born in Atlanta, Georgia and graduated from Newberry College, a small private Lutheran institution in Newberry, South Carolina.

Atwater was a trusted advisor of U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush. He was also a political mentor and close friend of Karl Rove. Atwater invented or improved upon many of the techniques of modern electoral politics, including promulgating reputation-destroying rumors. His opponents have characterized him as the "happy hatchet man"[1] and "the Darth Vader of the Republican party".

.....Shortly before his death from a brain tumor he said he had converted to Catholicism, [through the help of Fr. John Hardon, SJ][3],and, in an act of repentance, issued a number of public and written apologies to individuals whom he had attacked during his political career, including Dukakis. In a letter to Tom Turnipseed dated June 28, 1990, he stated, "It is very important to me that I let you know that out of everything that has happened in my career, one of the low points remains the so called 'jumper cable' episode," adding, "my illness has taught me something about the nature of humanity, love, brotherhood and relationships that I never understood, and probably never would have. So, from that standpoint, there is some truth and good in everything." [4]

In a February 1991 article for Life Magazine, Atwater wrote:

My illness helped me to see that what was missing in society is what was missing in me: a little heart, a lot of brotherhood. The '80s were about acquiring -- acquiring wealth, power, prestige. I know. I acquired more wealth, power, and prestige than most. But you can acquire all you want and still feel empty. What power wouldn't I trade for a little more time with my family? What price wouldn't I pay for an evening with friends? It took a deadly illness to put me eye to eye with that truth, but it is a truth that the country, caught up in its ruthless ambitions and moral decay, can learn on my dime. I don't know who will lead us through the '90s, but they must be made to speak to this spiritual vacuum at the heart of American society, this tumor of the soul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Atwater

 

[midcan5]

A single change can make a big difference. Consider as an example FDR, he probably made some of the toughest decisions a president can make but he kept us from leaning too close to Fascism and his 'do something' attitude helped alleviate the Great Depression. He made sure the Supreme court had justices that supported progress and the working people, and created SS which helps so many live their lives adequately even today. So I have to go with Barack in 2008 as I see him capable of the changes an FDR, Lincoln, or LBJ made, tough decisions that were unpopular but moved us forward.

 

[jillian]

So... you're praying for a Republican win... and that they continue screwing up America. Why would you want this?

Oh, so you can say, "I told you so!!"

And it's we Americans who are cynical about politics - gotcha!

Not so he can say I told you so.... so the right can't say "look at the economy the dems are running" when its bush's fault things are such a mess.

 

[Dr Grump]

So... you're praying for a Republican win... and that they continue screwing up America. Why would you want this?

Oh, so you can say, "I told you so!!"

And it's we Americans who are cynical about politics - gotcha!

No, so the blame can be apportioned to those responsible. This is where the cynicism kicks in. For me to be even thinking like this is due to how cynical your system is...

 

[TopGunna]

No, so the blame can be apportioned to those responsible. This is where the cynicism kicks in. For me to be even thinking like this is due to how cynical your system is...

Last time I checked, the George W Bush administration gets blamed all the time. Aren't they the ones "responsible?"

Wait, I see... you want McCain to win the election and have his administration fail, as this will validate your own biased opinion against Republicans. Then the real world will jive perfectly with your preconceived notions - awesome!

Not so he can say I told you so.... so the right can't say "look at the economy the dems are running" when its bush's fault things are such a mess.

I'd bet a lot of money that the economy will correct itself before the election even takes place. And it will have nothing to do with any stimulus package or $600 rebate.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A single change can make a big difference. Consider as an example FDR, he probably made some of the toughest decisions a president can make but he kept us from leaning too close to Fascism and his 'do something' attitude helped alleviate the Great Depression. He made sure the Supreme court had justices that supported progress and the working people, and created SS which helps so many live their lives adequately even today. So I have to go with Barack in 2008 as I see him capable of the changes an FDR, Lincoln, or LBJ made, tough decisions that were unpopular but moved us forward.

FDR tried to pack the courts, he illegally created Government programs and sold out Half of Europe, yup Great man he was.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Not so he can say I told you so.... so the right can't say "look at the economy the dems are running" when its bush's fault things are such a mess.

Ohh so the 2001 recession was NOT Bush's fault after all? Nor the 9/11 attack?

 

[AllieBaba]

Great like Jimmy CArter.

He certainly helped us out of a ditch, now, didn't he?

I think McCain will be outstanding. Particularly in a field in which Obama and Clinton stand.

 

[jreeves]

Seriously, George Bush has fucked things up that badly I don't think a Dem president can fix it. All that will happen from the moment Clinton or Obama are sworn in is they'll be blamed for everything - from the coming recession to the mess that is Iraq. So I'd hope the Repubs can continue their "work" for the next four years. Hopefully by then the recession might have receded a bit and McCain might have made some decisive motions towards Iraq. I'd say this presidency would be one of the biggest poisoned chalices in American political history. Let the conservatives stew I say!

Yep you liberals would rather bitch about somebody else, other than trying to change things yourselves. Good point.

 

[Dr Grump]

Last time I checked, the George W Bush administration gets blamed all the time. Aren't they the ones "responsible?"

Wait, I see... you want McCain to win the election and have his administration fail, as this will validate your own biased opinion against Republicans. Then the real world will jive perfectly with your preconceived notions - awesome!

I'd bet a lot of money that the economy will correct itself before the election even takes place. And it will have nothing to do with any stimulus package or $600 rebate.

Of course George gets blamed all the time - rightly so. However, his diehard supporters give him a free pass every time.

No, McCain's failure only means that Dems won't get blamed. It's like 9-11. Neocons blame Clinton by saying that 9-11 only happened eight months after Bush took office therefore it is Clinton's fault. Until you remind them that the first WTC bombing happened one month into Clinton's watch. Suddenly they go silent. Unfortunately US politics no longer involves policy, it is all about who to blame. So I play that game. Bad news is, it is sad and cynical. Good news is, I don't live there, but live in a society that has a political system that is 1000 times better (IMO of course).

No, the economy will not right itself for a couple of years yet. It's all about cycles. Dumbya just made the cycle come around a lot quicker due to his ineptitude.

 

[Diuretic]

Great like Jimmy CArter.

He certainly helped us out of a ditch, now, didn't he?

I think McCain will be outstanding. Particularly in a field in which Obama and Clinton stand.

McCain is not a conservative saviour. He has no ideas. He has already said he will continue the BushCheney policy of tossing more and more people into the meat grinder in Iraq. Vote for McCain, keep the bodies going in. Steady as she goes! Yep, really good leadership.

 

[TopGunna]

Of course George gets blamed all the time - rightly so. However, his diehard supporters give him a free pass every time.

No, McCain's failure only means that Dems won't get blamed. It's like 9-11. Neocons blame Clinton by saying that 9-11 only happened eight months after Bush took office therefore it is Clinton's fault. Until you remind them that the first WTC bombing happened one month into Clinton's watch. Suddenly they go silent. Unfortunately US politics no longer involves policy, it is all about who to blame. So I play that game. Bad news is, it is sad and cynical. Good news is, I don't live there, but live in a society that has a political system that is 1000 times better (IMO of course).

No, the economy will not right itself for a couple of years yet. It's all about cycles. Dumbya just made the cycle come around a lot quicker due to his ineptitude.

Ugh.... no one intelligent is blaming the WTC terrorist attacks on Bill Clinton (or George Bush for that matter). I suppose there may be some shortsighted people who, when faced with turmoil, need to assign blame somewhere. But that's just stupid.

As far as the economy - well we can both speculate about the length of the recession. But recessions in recent times typically last 6-18 months. Furthermore, a recession is defined as 2 quarters of negative growth. Well, GDP actually did grow last quarter, but only by .7% (which is definitely below the near 5% growth of the previous quarter, but still doesn't meet the definition of recession).

I'm willing to concede that continued slow (and probably slightly negative)growth is likely for the current quarter. But personally, I think it's pretty dumb to link the health of the economy to the political party in the White House. The economic cycle is a dynamic machine that doesn't adhere to the political cycle. So if you can explain exactly how Bush's ineptitude helped expedite the current economic funk, I'd love to hear it!

I prefer a strong economy, and it's my belief that limited government interference is the best way to facilitate it. But I wouldn't pray for economic failure if a Democrat entered the White House, just to justify that belief. I guess that's how you and I differ.

 

[Dr Grump]

Ugh.... no one intelligent is blaming the WTC terrorist attacks on Bill Clinton (or George Bush for that matter). I suppose there may be some shortsighted people who, when faced with turmoil, need to assign blame somewhere. But that's just stupid.

As far as the economy - well we can both speculate about the length of the recession. But recessions in recent times typically last 6-18 months. Furthermore, a recession is defined as 2 quarters of negative growth. Well, GDP actually did grow last quarter, but only by .7% (which is definitely below the near 5% growth of the previous quarter, but still doesn't meet the definition of recession).

I'm willing to concede that continued slow (and probably slightly negative)growth is likely for the current quarter. But personally, I think it's pretty dumb to link the health of the economy to the political party in the White House. The economic cycle is a dynamic machine that doesn't adhere to the political cycle. So if you can explain exactly how Bush's ineptitude helped expedite the current economic funk, I'd love to hear it!

I prefer a strong economy, and it's my belief that limited government interference is the best way to facilitate it. But I wouldn't pray for economic failure if a Democrat entered the White House, just to justify that belief. I guess that's how you and I differ.

I concur re no one intelligent is blaming the presidents, maybe that's the problem.

And you are right re Bush and the economy, but that's what you deal with when you have neocons and extreme lefties debating on a messageboard - the lowest common denominator.

As for recessions (or near recessions), you are right re the cycle, but it all depends on consumer confidence, and there doesn't seem a lot out there. With the subprime mortgage problem, literally trillions of dollars going to Iraq (although to be fair, a lot of that money is staying within the US economy via wages and paying manufacturers for their product, although that somewhat balanced out by the govt borrowing that money), it does seem to be siphoning off a lot.

I don't want the economy to fail under anybody, but it seems intelligence is not the criteria for voters and an election. Soon as there is a sniff of a scandal (see Obama and Wright, Clinton and Bosnia, McCain and Iran/AQ) pundits and idiots on messageboards jump on it like it is an issue and that is how elections are decided these days. Sad but true. I always think there should be an intelligence test before you are allowed to vote, but I'd have to be a benevolent dictator to get it installed as part and parcel of the election..

 

[Dr Grump]

Thought I'd bump this. Look at the date I wrote it. Was I right or wrong?

No Monday morning quarterbacking here...)

 

[antagon]

I know what Grump is getting at. It happens here in our electoral cycle. The conservatives stuff up and leave a mess, Labor comes in and fix it up with strong medicine, we get pissed off eventually and when things start to come good because we've had to suffer we throw Labor out and in come the conservatives to begin stuffing it up again. We have to break the cycle

talk about no monday morning quarterbacking... this prophecy, too, may come to pass with cameron running flat out of steam.

 

[007]

Thought I'd bump this. Look at the date I wrote it. Was I right or wrong?

No Monday morning quarterbacking here...)

Well, I read through this all, and I get where you're coming from. But it isn't quite accurate as it turned out. True the repubs didn't win, the dems did. But instead of the dems "fixing" anything, obama and his merry band of socialists are making it worse, by everyones estimation. With that, your point is moot.

However, the country being in the bad state it was in before obama took office is because of BOTH parties, not just one, BOTH. You are correct in believing America would benefit from a third party. I voted for Perot.