I agree w/ Olberman RE: McChrystal

[skookerasbil]

Oblermann said something? Who knew?

or more to the point.............who cares?? Has his viewership reached 500/night yet?

 

[Middleman]

I agree with your analysis. McCrystal was out of line, and since when do Generals give interviews to RollingStone? What's next, Playboy?

You all may not like Obama, but he is the president, and McCrystal deserves to be called on the carpet. Accepting his resignation, however, would be dumb. Let him eat humble pie, and then move on.

 

[JimH52]

McCrystal is a walking Ego. It is also becoming painfully obvious that his battle strategy in Afganistan is not working. The man is a jerk. Obama will can him. He needs to go, he and his command who seem to think, they also, are above reproach.

 

[CurveLight]

The general should stand at a full court for his actions.
Is he really indespensable in Afganistan?
Says a lot lot those under him and his leadership skills doesn't it if he cannot leave without it falling apart.

Why do you hate freedom? You want a General to stand full court for giving his opinion? The iraqi islamic based government might have a position for you in your love of freedom-removed.

 

[Ravi]

I agree with Olberman, there is too much that needs to be done. The General and Obama need to sit down, work it out, and then come up with a new game plan.

In the real world, that wouldn't be even a remote possibility. However, it will not surprise me if Obama tries to do just that. Look, Olberman's "idea" may work on the Lifetime Network, or in some Tom Cruise movie, but it shows an obvious lack of experience, business sense, and military leadership on Olberman's part and anyone else who thinks that this is a prudent and viable option. To allow someone to continue to work for you when they have publicly expressed their disdain and lack of respect for you is simply acquiescing to the fact that "they're going to screw me at some point, and I'm ok with it." Epic fail, and military/business/common sense 101.

The General isn't an idiot. You don't get to be a General by luck or opportunity. His sentiments in the Rolling Stone article weren't expressed because he was drunk, or doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. They were calculated and deliberate. He's a freaking General, for Christ's sake! He weighs the possible outcomes of what he eats for breakfast every morning, and where he leaves his keys, so there is absolutely no way he gives an interview with such scathing opinion without knowing ALL the possible outcomes, and without having reached the conclusion that even the worst possible is justified and necessary.

The "meaning" of his statements are exactly what he said:

He thinks Obama is an idiot, and he doesn't really want to work for him any more.

My gut feeling is that he knew the moment was desperate, and he knew that throwing it out there SHOULD elicit a response. Depending on the response, he was ready to resign, or maybe he was going to resign anyway and was just looking for more validation and opportunity? In any case, I believe the General is convinced our President is an idiot, not worthy of leadership and certainly not worthy of command of the US Armed Forces. I have to admit I agree with those sentiments.

Another giveaway is the fact that he is going to the meeting today with his resignation letter in hand. Generals don't play games like that. He didn't leak that he had his resignation letter ready to call the President's bluff, or to muster public support. He is going to tender his resignation, period. Generals are leaders. This isn't the PTA where you take a gamble or two and hope to become Chair of the Fundraising Committee. He is responsible for soldiers' lives, and if his Commander is an idiot who isn't going to support him the way he needs (and he hasn't to date, or McChrystal wouldn't have said the things he did), then the General probably isn't going to be inclined to throw those soldiers in harms way knowing they are at greater risk because some talking head wants to save a few bucks or win political favor, even at the expense of American soldiers lives.

And if the President even entertains the idea of refusing to accept the General's resignation and keep him in place, pardon my French, but that will be a massive sign to all of us that our President is a completely naive dumbass, and we are screwed.

McChrystal SHOULD resign. If he doesn't he should immediately be relieved of command. Whether his discharge is honorable or dishonorable will be up to the Army, but his tour has to end now. If any other scenario emerges from today's meeting, our "president" will have told the world that the US has no leadership, and that we would be better off with a bag of hammers or a baked ham sitting in the Oval Office.

What you are saying is that McCristal made a calculated attempt to discredit the United States of America because he was unable to do what he was told to do.

I prefer thinking that he was drunk.

 

[JimH52]

The point is not to make McCrystal eat humble pie. The point is that the young men and women actually dying on the battlefield now see that the leadership is fractured. They have lost confidence in McCrystal, and the Taliban will take advantage of it. We are not talking about political capital here. We are talking about lives being lost on a battlefield.

Get this 4 Star Egomaniac out of there now!

 

[Mini 14]

McCrystal is a walking Ego. It is also becoming painfully obvious that his battle strategy in Afganistan is not working. The man is a jerk. Obama will can him. He needs to go, he and his command who seem to think, they also, are above reproach.

McChrystal's argument is that they haven't allowed him to fully engage his strategy.

It doesn't matter now. Obama *should* let him go.

In which case, McChrystal wins.

And if Obama accepts his resignation?

McChrystal wins.

And if Obama does nothing and attempts to "work it out?"

McChrystal wins.

Do you remember a man named Colin Powell?

 

[The Rabbi]

You make points I hadn't considered.
But McChrystal could have simply resigned "for personal reasons" without the public fanfare. Why didnt he do that if he wanted out?

I'm sure he thought there was a chance he could garner favor with Obama or his advisors by suddenly "going public" with what had previously been private discussions (I'm sure it was common knowledge in the Whitehouse that McChrystal strongly disagreed with the President's decisions). My gut feeling is that he probably knew it was a longshot, and there was only one REMOTE possibile outcome that was favorable, but he had to give it a shot before he walked away from his men.


/QUOTE]

That doesn't make sense. How would he garner favor by publicly expressing his view that the president is an idiot?
I could see that he felt he couldn't resign since he largely designed the strategy. So he engineered a way to be fired that wouldn't reflect on his military abilities. That might make sense.
Or the simple explanation is he screwed up.

 

[Middleman]

The point is not to make McCrystal eat humble pie. The point is that the young men and women actually dying on the battlefield now see that the leadership is fractured. They have lost confidence in McCrystal, and the Taliban will take advantage of it. We are not talking about political capital here. We are talking about lives being lost on a battlefield.

Get this 4 Star Egomaniac out of there now!

LOL, what about the egomaniac in the White House? He's definitely no great leader nor commander-in-chief.

 

[JimH52]

The general should stand at a full court for his actions.
Is he really indespensable in Afganistan?
Says a lot lot those under him and his leadership skills doesn't it if he cannot leave without it falling apart.

Why do you hate freedom? You want a General to stand full court for giving his opinion? The iraqi islamic based government might have a position for you in your love of freedom-removed.

Voicing his opinion? Calling the Vice-President "Bite Me" is voicing an opinion? McCrystal and his gang sounded like 7th Graders. This guy thinks far to well of himself. Gates needs to add his voice to Obama and get rid of this guy.

 

[Mini 14]

I agree with Olberman, there is too much that needs to be done. The General and Obama need to sit down, work it out, and then come up with a new game plan.

In the real world, that wouldn't be even a remote possibility. However, it will not surprise me if Obama tries to do just that. Look, Olberman's "idea" may work on the Lifetime Network, or in some Tom Cruise movie, but it shows an obvious lack of experience, business sense, and military leadership on Olberman's part and anyone else who thinks that this is a prudent and viable option. To allow someone to continue to work for you when they have publicly expressed their disdain and lack of respect for you is simply acquiescing to the fact that "they're going to screw me at some point, and I'm ok with it." Epic fail, and military/business/common sense 101.

The General isn't an idiot. You don't get to be a General by luck or opportunity. His sentiments in the Rolling Stone article weren't expressed because he was drunk, or doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. They were calculated and deliberate. He's a freaking General, for Christ's sake! He weighs the possible outcomes of what he eats for breakfast every morning, and where he leaves his keys, so there is absolutely no way he gives an interview with such scathing opinion without knowing ALL the possible outcomes, and without having reached the conclusion that even the worst possible is justified and necessary.

The "meaning" of his statements are exactly what he said:

He thinks Obama is an idiot, and he doesn't really want to work for him any more.

My gut feeling is that he knew the moment was desperate, and he knew that throwing it out there SHOULD elicit a response. Depending on the response, he was ready to resign, or maybe he was going to resign anyway and was just looking for more validation and opportunity? In any case, I believe the General is convinced our President is an idiot, not worthy of leadership and certainly not worthy of command of the US Armed Forces. I have to admit I agree with those sentiments.

Another giveaway is the fact that he is going to the meeting today with his resignation letter in hand. Generals don't play games like that. He didn't leak that he had his resignation letter ready to call the President's bluff, or to muster public support. He is going to tender his resignation, period. Generals are leaders. This isn't the PTA where you take a gamble or two and hope to become Chair of the Fundraising Committee. He is responsible for soldiers' lives, and if his Commander is an idiot who isn't going to support him the way he needs (and he hasn't to date, or McChrystal wouldn't have said the things he did), then the General probably isn't going to be inclined to throw those soldiers in harms way knowing they are at greater risk because some talking head wants to save a few bucks or win political favor, even at the expense of American soldiers lives.

And if the President even entertains the idea of refusing to accept the General's resignation and keep him in place, pardon my French, but that will be a massive sign to all of us that our President is a completely naive dumbass, and we are screwed.

McChrystal SHOULD resign. If he doesn't he should immediately be relieved of command. Whether his discharge is honorable or dishonorable will be up to the Army, but his tour has to end now. If any other scenario emerges from today's meeting, our "president" will have told the world that the US has no leadership, and that we would be better off with a bag of hammers or a baked ham sitting in the Oval Office.

What you are saying is that McCristal made a calculated attempt to discredit the United States of America because he was unable to do what he was told to do.

I prefer thinking that he was drunk.

I haven't' seen anything where the General took a shot at the US.

Our Administration, yes, but not the US.

Am I correct in interpreting your comment to imply that anyone who reportedly supported the military, while berating George Bush, was "discrediting the US?"

The Administration, the Military, and the People ("the US") are 3 separate, but closely tied entities. It is possible to have one sucking wind while the others excel.

And it happens more than most of us would care to admit.

 

[JimH52]

The point is not to make McCrystal eat humble pie. The point is that the young men and women actually dying on the battlefield now see that the leadership is fractured. They have lost confidence in McCrystal, and the Taliban will take advantage of it. We are not talking about political capital here. We are talking about lives being lost on a battlefield.

Get this 4 Star Egomaniac out of there now!

LOL, what about the egomaniac in the White House? He's definitely no great leader nor commander-in-chief.

He was elected by the voters of America as the Commander in Chief, whether you and McCrystal like it or not. Deal with it...

 

[CurveLight]

Can anyone explain why we are still illegally occupying Astan or do quesrions like that get in the way of soap opera diatribes?

 

[maineman]

The general should stand at a full court for his actions.
Is he really indespensable in Afganistan?
Says a lot lot those under him and his leadership skills doesn't it if he cannot leave without it falling apart.

Why do you hate freedom? You want a General to stand full court for giving his opinion? The iraqi islamic based government might have a position for you in your love of freedom-removed.

our military operates under a different set of rules than does civilian society. We are not free to give our opinion if, in doing so, we are disrespectful to our chain of command.

 

[editec]

I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.

GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.

However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.

More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.

In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.

I think Obama ought to bust him down a couple ranks or so before accepting his resignation.

The man went off the reservation and as a top ranking general he ought to have known better.

 

[maineman]

Can anyone explain why we are still illegally occupying Astan or do quesrions like that get in the way of soap opera diatribes?

their government and elected head of state wants us to be there. our occupation is not illegal.

 

[Mini 14]

You make points I hadn't considered.
But McChrystal could have simply resigned "for personal reasons" without the public fanfare. Why didnt he do that if he wanted out?

I'm sure he thought there was a chance he could garner favor with Obama or his advisors by suddenly "going public" with what had previously been private discussions (I'm sure it was common knowledge in the Whitehouse that McChrystal strongly disagreed with the President's decisions). My gut feeling is that he probably knew it was a longshot, and there was only one REMOTE possibile outcome that was favorable, but he had to give it a shot before he walked away from his men.


/QUOTE]

That doesn't make sense. How would he garner favor by publicly expressing his view that the president is an idiot?
I could see that he felt he couldn't resign since he largely designed the strategy. So he engineered a way to be fired that wouldn't reflect on his military abilities. That might make sense.
Or the simple explanation is he screwed up.

Yeah, you're right. "Garner favor" was a poor choice of words and not really what I meant. "Garner strength" or "gain an upper hand" or "back them down a little" are all really more accurate and what I meant.

"Garner favor" was a poor choice of words.

And "he fucked up" is a possibility, of course. But in general, Generals don't fuck up on this scale. Sure, they take a gamble and lose, but they don't lose it all.

He's got plans. He knew enough about what he was doing to know this was a possible, probable outcome. My assumption is that this outcome fits nicely into whatever his plans are.

 

[CurveLight]

The general should stand at a full court for his actions.
Is he really indespensable in Afganistan?
Says a lot lot those under him and his leadership skills doesn't it if he cannot leave without it falling apart.

The general should stand at a full court for his actions.
Is he really indespensable in Afganistan?
Says a lot lot those under him and his leadership skills doesn't it if he cannot leave without it falling apart.

Why do you hate freedom? You want a General to stand full court for giving his opinion? The iraqi islamic based government might have a position for you in your love of freedom-removed.

Voicing his opinion? Calling the Vice-President "Bite Me" is voicing an opinion? McCrystal and his gang sounded like 7th Graders. This guy thinks far to well of himself. Gates needs to add his voice to Obama and get rid of this guy.

Yes. That is voicing his opinion. So why do you hate freedom too?

 

[Ravi]

In the real world, that wouldn't be even a remote possibility. However, it will not surprise me if Obama tries to do just that. Look, Olberman's "idea" may work on the Lifetime Network, or in some Tom Cruise movie, but it shows an obvious lack of experience, business sense, and military leadership on Olberman's part and anyone else who thinks that this is a prudent and viable option. To allow someone to continue to work for you when they have publicly expressed their disdain and lack of respect for you is simply acquiescing to the fact that "they're going to screw me at some point, and I'm ok with it." Epic fail, and military/business/common sense 101.

The General isn't an idiot. You don't get to be a General by luck or opportunity. His sentiments in the Rolling Stone article weren't expressed because he was drunk, or doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. They were calculated and deliberate. He's a freaking General, for Christ's sake! He weighs the possible outcomes of what he eats for breakfast every morning, and where he leaves his keys, so there is absolutely no way he gives an interview with such scathing opinion without knowing ALL the possible outcomes, and without having reached the conclusion that even the worst possible is justified and necessary.

The "meaning" of his statements are exactly what he said:

He thinks Obama is an idiot, and he doesn't really want to work for him any more.

My gut feeling is that he knew the moment was desperate, and he knew that throwing it out there SHOULD elicit a response. Depending on the response, he was ready to resign, or maybe he was going to resign anyway and was just looking for more validation and opportunity? In any case, I believe the General is convinced our President is an idiot, not worthy of leadership and certainly not worthy of command of the US Armed Forces. I have to admit I agree with those sentiments.

Another giveaway is the fact that he is going to the meeting today with his resignation letter in hand. Generals don't play games like that. He didn't leak that he had his resignation letter ready to call the President's bluff, or to muster public support. He is going to tender his resignation, period. Generals are leaders. This isn't the PTA where you take a gamble or two and hope to become Chair of the Fundraising Committee. He is responsible for soldiers' lives, and if his Commander is an idiot who isn't going to support him the way he needs (and he hasn't to date, or McChrystal wouldn't have said the things he did), then the General probably isn't going to be inclined to throw those soldiers in harms way knowing they are at greater risk because some talking head wants to save a few bucks or win political favor, even at the expense of American soldiers lives.

And if the President even entertains the idea of refusing to accept the General's resignation and keep him in place, pardon my French, but that will be a massive sign to all of us that our President is a completely naive dumbass, and we are screwed.

McChrystal SHOULD resign. If he doesn't he should immediately be relieved of command. Whether his discharge is honorable or dishonorable will be up to the Army, but his tour has to end now. If any other scenario emerges from today's meeting, our "president" will have told the world that the US has no leadership, and that we would be better off with a bag of hammers or a baked ham sitting in the Oval Office.

What you are saying is that McCristal made a calculated attempt to discredit the United States of America because he was unable to do what he was told to do.

I prefer thinking that he was drunk.

I haven't' seen anything where the General took a shot at the US.

Our Administration, yes, but not the US.

Am I correct in interpreting your comment to imply that anyone who reportedly supported the military, while berating George Bush, was "discrediting the US?"

The Administration, the Military, and the People ("the US") are 3 separate, but closely tied entities. It is possible to have one sucking wind while the others excel.

And it happens more than most of us would care to admit.

The president is the leader of the United States...so yes, discrediting him is discrediting the United States and undermining what the United States is trying to accomplish.

Doesn't matter who the president is...Bush or Obama.

 

[Ravi]

Well I see now why he bad mouthed Biden. Biden's strategy for Afghanistan was different than McCristal's...and McCristal's isn't working out as expected.