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The Israelis chose to exercise the right of self-determination. They succeeded in spite of multiple wars of aggression waged by Arabs-Moslems.Rights are inherent. They are not handed out by people of power.P F Tinmore, et al,
You say this as if the misinterpretation were true.
(COMMENT)All of that just because the Palestinians reject the Zionist's settler colonial project in Palestine.
You are implying that the population of the former Enemy Occupied Territory Administration, those with NO title and rights to the territory under Mandate, had the right to "reject" the encourage and facilitated immigration of Jewish people under the authority of the Allied Powers.
The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounced all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories to the Allied Powers. NOT to the population of the former Enemy Occupied Territory Administration.
In April 1920, when, at the San Remo Conference, the decision was to place the Mandate, the inhabitance (Arab Palestinians) were under the authority of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration.
(IN FUTURE)
You should make the distinction between matters of Diplomacy in which the Arab Palestinian a party to the deliberations (which are very few).
Most Respectfully,
R
Holy smokescreen, Batman.P F Tinmore, et al,
I'm not sure who is the most amusing; you or me?
(COMMENT)What a silly statement. There never was going to Palestinian state. The Zionists have always wanted all of Palestine without the Palestinians.All these factors and the level of cooperation contribute to the failure of the Arab Palestinians to make a working state for its people.
What the "Zionist" want and what the "Zionist" get are two different achievements! Most importantly, what the Arab Palestinians want, and what the "Zionist" want --- are, in the case, confrontational, only because you have defined it that way. Not because it is actually that way. The Arab Palestinians are motivationally retarded by their own misdirection.
There is this Generalized Theory called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which is one derivative of the Drive Theory of Motivation. It's application here is simple. The contemporary Arab Palestinian People of today are motivated to take certain actions in order to reduce the internal tension and disappointment that is caused by unmet needs. Their perception is that if they achieve some measure of increased autonomy, their lives and well being will be improved. As exemplars, this is what the People of Iran felt, and what motivated the People of the DAESH (ISIS). It was, in part, the spark that was behind the "Arab Spring."
You will find this motivational based drive theory is very useful in explaining behaviors that have a strong biological components and generationally passed aggression, such as as we see in the Gaza Strip and West Bank --- pasted from parent to children, and taught in schools and summer camps. The problem with the drive theory of motivation is that these behaviors are not always motivated purely by physiological needs. For example, Arab Palestinians often spontaneously create a crowd to incite civil unrest and disorder even when they are not really in any new pain or need. All successful peoples and cultures share in this drive and determination. But in the Middle East spectrum of drive and determination, the extreme right is marked by this enjoyment to ruthless obsession. In our case, this is characterized by unfocused need to direct "Harm and injury solely against the Israeli, the Occupation Power, as opposed to the exploitation of that Power to achieve benefits for the citizenry.
NOW, are all Arab Palestinians focused in this way? (Rhetorical) --- NO! There are a surprising number of personalities driven in the pursuit of personal power and wealth; with a vast number willing to follow. The
The Arab Palestinian cannot seem to adopt proven strategies, single minded focus, and a strong sense of direction, to move towards activities that better advance the culture and improve the society.
“There are many advantages to powerful determination and a strong sense of direction. The sense of direction urges action. The sense of direction shapes the action. The sense of direction allows the value of the action to be assessed: has it got me nearer to my goal? The sense of direction allows all judgments and decisions to be made more easily: does this help me toward my goal or does this hinder me? Most people in their ordinary lives lack such a strong sense of value when taking a decision. Most people may have to take into account a soup of different factors such as family, health, enjoyment, career, etc., when making a decision. The strongly-success oriented person only takes into account one thing: the path to success.” (SOURCE: From the Book Tactics: The Art and Science of Success – by Edward De Bono)
There are a vast number of Arab Palestinians that have poisoned themselves. This is not unlike the First Emperor of China drinking Mercury as a cure for a long life, but actually giving Heavy Metal Poisoning. The Arab Palestinians, like the First Emperor, embarked on a path that achieve the exact opposite of the desired effect (the satisfaction, development, peace and security). And like the First Emperor --- it is unlikely that the Arab Palestinian will recognize they are on the wrong path until they get to the end.
(COMMENT)Settler colonialism is the replacement of the native population with foreign settlers. You are going to get the boot anyway, faster if you cooperate. The Zionists are still working on that goal as we speak.
Again, the is the generalized thinking derives from the generational poisoning. The Arab Palestinians must direct some of their energies towards the adoption of strategies of people with determination and drive to improve their success as a nation. Not towards Jihad and Armed Struggle as HAMAS and FATAH consistently promote.
(ANSWER)BTW, what do you get out of pimping for Israel?
Just curious.
This is merely a shrewd attack on the character of my presentation; as opposed to the actual content. The idea that I am a person who promotes or advances a particular theme or cause is a case of misdirection.
Most Respectfully,
R
All of that just because the Palestinians reject the Zionist's settler colonial project in Palestine.
Rights are inherent. They are not handed out by people of power.P F Tinmore, et al,
You say this as if the misinterpretation were true.
(COMMENT)All of that just because the Palestinians reject the Zionist's settler colonial project in Palestine.
You are implying that the population of the former Enemy Occupied Territory Administration, those with NO title and rights to the territory under Mandate, had the right to "reject" the encourage and facilitated immigration of Jewish people under the authority of the Allied Powers.
The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounced all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories to the Allied Powers. NOT to the population of the former Enemy Occupied Territory Administration.
In April 1920, when, at the San Remo Conference, the decision was to place the Mandate, the inhabitance (Arab Palestinians) were under the authority of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration.
(IN FUTURE)
You should make the distinction between matters of Diplomacy in which the Arab Palestinian a party to the deliberations (which are very few).
Most Respectfully,
R
montelatici, et al,
Germany and Japan. During the occupation of both, the stability that resulted in a cooperative effort with the occupation population (the Arab Palestinians never cooperated on any political matter relative to nation building) created the most powerful industrial power in all of Europe. The Allied Powers were able to stabilize German much quicker and to a self-sufficient degree that, the period of Occupation was significantly reduced. The destruction Germany suffered by the end of the War, was many, many more times devistating than anything the former territory to which the Mandate applied experienced.
(COMMENT)Rocco, do you have an example of a "government" that was "functional" while the land and people it was supposed to be governing were under foreign military occupation?
The Occupation by the Allied Powers was many more time invasive in Germany then was that endured by the Arab Palestinians. For example in the British Zone of Occupation, the German State of Hamberg was re-established; as well as the German states of Schleswig-Holstein was created. I arrived on my first European CI Assignment two days after the Red Army Faction -/- Baader-Meinhof Gang bombed the Rotunda Area of V Corps HQ in the IG Farben Building. That was 1976, and we were still there (V Corps and VII Corps).
In terms of growth, you can see just how well the two formerly occupied territories did. There are special circumstances for the accelerated rise for Japan. But for having suffering huge fire bombing raids and to cities complete destroyed, they furnished as well.
Since the start of the Group of Six Countries (1974, initial meeting in 1975) or G6 Nations (now G20) the first members were the US, UK, France, Germany, Japan and Italy. You can see that Germany and Japan were well established and leaders in the community of Industrialized Nations. While it would have been unreasonable to expect the same degree of success in the Middle East, they could have accelerated well. But it wasn't in the nature of the Arabs in the surrounding territories to Israel, to work that hard. Nor was it in the character to cooperation on Nation Building enterprises that were popular at the time. However, the Jewish Agency did capitalize on the potential and did economically, Industrially, and scientifically benefit as a result; just as Germany and Japan did.
Allied-occupied Germany
Military governors and commissionersMost Respectfully,
American Zone
Military governors
May 8, 1945 – November 10, 1945 Dwight D. EisenhowerNovember 11, 1945 – November 25, 1945 George S. Patton (acting)High commissioners
November 26, 1945 – January 5, 1947
Joseph T. McNarney January 6,
1947 – May 14, 1949 Lucius D. Clay
May 15, 1949 – September 1, 1949 Clarence R. Huebner (acting)
British Zone
- September 2, 1949 – August 1, 1952 John J. McCloy
- August 1, 1952 – December 11, 1952 Walter J. Donnelly
- December 11, 1952 – February 10, 1953 Samuel Reber (acting)
- February 10, 1953 – May 5, 1955 James Bryant Conant
Military governors
High commissioners
- May 22, 1945 – April 30, 1946 Field Marshal the Viscount Montgomery
- May 1, 1946 – October 31, 1947 Air Chief Marshal Sir William Sholto Douglas (later Lord Douglas)
- November 1, 1947 – September 21, 1949 General Sir Brian Hubert Robertson (later Lord Robertson)
French Zone
- September 21, 1949 – June 24, 1950 General Sir Brian Hubert Robertson
- June 24, 1950 – September 29, 1953 Sir Ivone Kirkpatrick
- September 29, 1953 – May 5, 1955 Sir Frederick Hoyer Millar (later Lord Inchyra)
Military commander
May 1945 – July 1945 Army General Jean de Lattre de Tassigny
Military governor
July 1945 – September 21, 1949 Army General Marie Pierre Kœnig
High commissioner
September 21, 1949 – May 5, 1955 André François-Poncet
R
The allies did not transfer their populations to Japan and Germany and both countries were sovereign within a few years, totally absurd comparison.
What a silly statement. There never was going to Palestinian state. The Zionists have always wanted all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
Do you think they bit off more than they can chew?What a silly statement. There never was going to Palestinian state. The Zionists have always wanted all of Palestine without the Palestinians.
Wow. They appear to be failing miserably. Just miserably. Tell me, what is the nefarious "Zionist" plan to rid all of Palestine of the 1.4 million Arabs within Israel, the 1.7 million Arabs in Gaza, the 2.7 million Arabs in Judea and Samaria and the 6.5 million Arabs in Jordan. That's 13 million Arabs. Whoa.
What are they waiting for? They'd better get on with that.
Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
Do you think they bit off more than they can chew?
We tried that once but the people we wanted to win sucked so bad that they elected Hamas.montelatici, et al,
Germany and Japan. During the occupation of both, the stability that resulted in a cooperative effort with the occupation population (the Arab Palestinians never cooperated on any political matter relative to nation building) created the most powerful industrial power in all of Europe. The Allied Powers were able to stabilize German much quicker and to a self-sufficient degree that, the period of Occupation was significantly reduced. The destruction Germany suffered by the end of the War, was many, many more times devistating than anything the former territory to which the Mandate applied experienced.
(COMMENT)Rocco, do you have an example of a "government" that was "functional" while the land and people it was supposed to be governing were under foreign military occupation?
The Occupation by the Allied Powers was many more time invasive in Germany then was that endured by the Arab Palestinians. For example in the British Zone of Occupation, the German State of Hamberg was re-established; as well as the German states of Schleswig-Holstein was created. I arrived on my first European CI Assignment two days after the Red Army Faction -/- Baader-Meinhof Gang bombed the Rotunda Area of V Corps HQ in the IG Farben Building. That was 1976, and we were still there (V Corps and VII Corps).
In terms of growth, you can see just how well the two formerly occupied territories did. There are special circumstances for the accelerated rise for Japan. But for having suffering huge fire bombing raids and to cities complete destroyed, they furnished as well.
Since the start of the Group of Six Countries (1974, initial meeting in 1975) or G6 Nations (now G20) the first members were the US, UK, France, Germany, Japan and Italy. You can see that Germany and Japan were well established and leaders in the community of Industrialized Nations. While it would have been unreasonable to expect the same degree of success in the Middle East, they could have accelerated well. But it wasn't in the nature of the Arabs in the surrounding territories to Israel, to work that hard. Nor was it in the character to cooperation on Nation Building enterprises that were popular at the time. However, the Jewish Agency did capitalize on the potential and did economically, Industrially, and scientifically benefit as a result; just as Germany and Japan did.
Allied-occupied Germany
Military governors and commissionersMost Respectfully,
American Zone
Military governors
May 8, 1945 – November 10, 1945 Dwight D. EisenhowerNovember 11, 1945 – November 25, 1945 George S. Patton (acting)High commissioners
November 26, 1945 – January 5, 1947
Joseph T. McNarney January 6,
1947 – May 14, 1949 Lucius D. Clay
May 15, 1949 – September 1, 1949 Clarence R. Huebner (acting)
British Zone
- September 2, 1949 – August 1, 1952 John J. McCloy
- August 1, 1952 – December 11, 1952 Walter J. Donnelly
- December 11, 1952 – February 10, 1953 Samuel Reber (acting)
- February 10, 1953 – May 5, 1955 James Bryant Conant
Military governors
High commissioners
- May 22, 1945 – April 30, 1946 Field Marshal the Viscount Montgomery
- May 1, 1946 – October 31, 1947 Air Chief Marshal Sir William Sholto Douglas (later Lord Douglas)
- November 1, 1947 – September 21, 1949 General Sir Brian Hubert Robertson (later Lord Robertson)
French Zone
- September 21, 1949 – June 24, 1950 General Sir Brian Hubert Robertson
- June 24, 1950 – September 29, 1953 Sir Ivone Kirkpatrick
- September 29, 1953 – May 5, 1955 Sir Frederick Hoyer Millar (later Lord Inchyra)
Military commander
May 1945 – July 1945 Army General Jean de Lattre de Tassigny
Military governor
July 1945 – September 21, 1949 Army General Marie Pierre Kœnig
High commissioner
September 21, 1949 – May 5, 1955 André François-Poncet
R
The allies did not transfer their populations to Japan and Germany and both countries were sovereign within a few years, totally absurd comparison.
Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
That would have been nice but they got stuck with fucking Britain. It has been down hill since then.Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
Yes, and perhaps also force them, as peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, to accept the tutelage of advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience and their geographical position who can best undertake this responsibility and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories.
Just a thought.
That would have been nice but they got stuck with fucking Britain. It has been down hill since then.Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
Yes, and perhaps also force them, as peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, to accept the tutelage of advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience and their geographical position who can best undertake this responsibility and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories.
Just a thought.
I don't know. Chile? Brazil?That would have been nice but they got stuck with fucking Britain. It has been down hill since then.Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
Yes, and perhaps also force them, as peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, to accept the tutelage of advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience and their geographical position who can best undertake this responsibility and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories.
Just a thought.
Who would you suggest we "stick them with" now?
(COMMENT)We tried that once but the people we wanted to win sucked so bad that they elected Hamas.
I don't know. Chile? Brazil?That would have been nice but they got stuck with fucking Britain. It has been down hill since then.Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
Yes, and perhaps also force them, as peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, to accept the tutelage of advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience and their geographical position who can best undertake this responsibility and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories.
Just a thought.
Who would you suggest we "stick them with" now?
While it may be accurate to say the the Arab Palestinian Leaders, without regard to brand names, are ranked according to the degree of "suck;" ....
Because BOTH of those countries were FORCED to form a govt. I think it's time to FORCE "palestinians" to form a government -- don't you??
Yes, and perhaps also force them, as peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, to accept the tutelage of advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience and their geographical position who can best undertake this responsibility and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories.
Just a thought.
That's really all that's left isn't it? A protectorate of some kind. Hopefully NOT under the UN. Egypt, Israel, Jordan COULD knock out a beautiful neighborhood deal. Containing land donations and swaps from ALL 3 of them. Even add a few airports, seaports, trans corridors. Build it and hope they VALUE it and want to be sovereign enough to "grow the fuck up" into the 21st Century...
The native Jordanians, who are the Hashemite Bedouins, number just 3 million. Jordan has absorbed about 4.5 million Palestinians and have given citizenship to 3.5 million Palestinians. Bedouins are Arabians and exclusively Muslim, they are far different culturally and have a completely different societal/tribal organization than the Palestinians who are Levantine people and are over 30% are Christian on a worldwide basis. It would be difficult to convince the native people of Jordan to give up their country I think.
The native Jordanians, who are the Hashemite Bedouins, number just 3 million. Jordan has absorbed about 4.5 million Palestinians and have given citizenship to 3.5 million Palestinians. Bedouins are Arabians and exclusively Muslim, they are far different culturally and have a completely different societal/tribal organization than the Palestinians who are Levantine people and are over 30% are Christian on a worldwide basis. It would be difficult to convince the native people of Jordan to give up their country I think.
