How to reduce gun deaths in US

[Stann]

Wow! I promise you, I have never heard someone say something so antithetical to our way of life in the United States, in my life.

What Americans used to say is, "Better for a hundred guilty men to go free than for a single innocent man to be in jail." That said more about our way of life in America than virtually every other thing we stand for. And now you've reversed it, and now it is OK for some innocents to go to die as long as we get some guilty with them.

It is astonishing how far our younger generations have fallen from the idea that is America and the liberty that our forefathers have fought two wars, with several hundred thousands of them killed, on our land to defend.

I am not a younger generation and I served in the military. You ass-u-me a lot. I was just talking about capitol crimes like murder. But changing fraud to a felony would change America for the better too.

 

[woodwork201]

So you believe stealing warrants the death penalty ? Let's be realistic , according to you millions , including trump , deserve to be murdered.

Criminals don't get shot for stealing; they get shot for threatening. If they came up and asked politely for money, not threatening in any way, not with weapons or demeanor, and the victim gave them the money, that's called charity. But when they threaten the victim, the victim isn't shooting to defend their money; they're shooting to defend their life.

Have you ever heard of anyone shooting the bell ringer at Christmas? That's a guy politely asking for donations. He doesn't get shot - except by robbers. But if the bell ringer replaced his bell with a Glock, we'd have to assume he means to use it if we say no, otherwise, why have it at all? So then to shoot him is not because he wanted money for the Salvation Army, but because he created a fear for the life or limb of the victim.

You're not worried about the safety of everyone; you're arguing for victims to accept quietly and gracefully, their fate at the hands of violent offenders.

 

[woodwork201]

That would have to be voted in ( very doubtful }. Not at all like these new republicans who believe they can force people and the nation to do as they see fit , even using force to do so.

Communism has never been voted in. It comes at the point of a gun.

 

[Stann]

Criminals don't get shot for stealing; they get shot for threatening. If they came up and asked politely for money, not threatening in any way, not with weapons or demeanor, and the victim gave them the money, that's called charity. But when they threaten the victim, the victim isn't shooting to defend their money; they're shooting to defend their life.

Have you ever heard of anyone shooting the bell ringer at Christmas? That's a guy politely asking for donations. He doesn't get shot - except by robbers. But if the bell ringer replaced his bell with a Glock, we'd have to assume he means to use it if we say no, otherwise, why have it at all? So then to shoot him is not because he wanted money for the Salvation Army, but because he created a fear for the life or limb of the victim.

You're not worried about the safety of everyone; you're arguing for victims to accept quietly and gracefully, their fate at the hands of violent offenders.

I believe you are a little too much involved with this issue to see the forest for the trees.

 

[Stann]

Communism has never been voted in. It comes at the point of a gun.

Again , something that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

 

[woodwork201]

I am not a younger generation and I served in the military. You ass-u-me a lot. I was just talking about capitol crimes like murder. But changing fraud to a felony would change America for the better too.

Doesn't change what I said or what you said. You stand for nothing that this country has been and I stand for all that has ever been good in it.

 

[woodwork201]

Show me one story where a gun got up and killed someone, causing the death on its own.

 

[woodwork201]

Don't tell me you're a businessman who.commits a lot of fraud and you want to continue your predatory lifestyle without any consequences.

If you know of a business man who committed a crime, who was charged and found guilty in criminal court, and who has exhausted their appeals, then they certainly belong in jail. Let me know when you have such a case and the business man is not in jail.

 

[woodwork201]

I believe you are a little too much involved with this issue to see the forest for the trees.

No; it is you that cannot see the trees for the forest. I understand the issue better than anyone you know.

 

[candycorn]

Both of those shooters were Biden voters.

false.

 

[Stann]

Doesn't change what I said or what you said. You stand for nothing that this country has been and I stand for all that has ever been good in it.

Throughout my entire life I've heard the people ( NRA ).reinforce the idea that the right was about civilians bearing arms. If you bother to read the entire article. You'll discover they were talking about well-maintained and disciplined state militias , not civilians. There was no federal army. Also these same men took all arms away from anyone who identified as a Tory ( supporting the British. A very community n sense move. Hopefully we will have the same common sense before too many more lives are lost to all this madness.

 

[Stann]

If you know of a business man who committed a crime, who was charged and found guilty in criminal court, and who has exhausted their appeals, then they certainly belong in jail. Let me know when you have such a case and the business man is not in jail.

Trump has yet to see a single day in prison.

 

[woodwork201]

Again , something that's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Not so. That is one reason the Founders protected our God-given right to keep and bear arms, so we can keep communists like you at bay. It's worked for 240 years. The Communists are so close, now, having stripped the States of their power in the Union with the 16th and 17th Amendments, having turned the citizens from citizens of the States to citizens of the Nation with the 16th Amendment, and stripped the States of their militias with the militia laws creating the National Guard. All that remains in their 180 year struggle to replace our republic with all-out communism, is to disarm the people and remove the very last vestige of power in the States: the Electoral College.

They can smell victory and, if Biden gets reelected, they may very well get it in the next 4 years. Regardless of what happens in any election between now and then, if the Republican Party and conservatives don't start honest conversations deep in the ghettos and barrios of the United States, then the Communists will certainly win by the 2044 election when the children of the imported voters head to the polls. If we can't win the minds and hearts of those 30 million illegals Biden has let in, the United States exists for 20 more years as a constitutional republic. If we don't win those minds and hearts, in 2044, every state legislature will be Democrat. The entire Congress, with perhaps a very small number of outlier districts, will be Democrat. They will have super-majorities able to override any fillibuster or veto - not that there would be a veto when both houses and the Whitehouse are all Democratically controlled. The Supreme Court will either be completely leftist or will be stacked to make the remaining years of Kavanaugh and Barrett pointless. And then the Constitutional Amendments will fly. The 1st and 2nd Amendments will be the first to go. What's left of the 4th will be close behind. The America we grew up in has no more than 20 more years - unless we spend the next 20 years winning hearts and minds in the Barrios and Ghettos.

 

[woodwork201]

Trump has yet to see a single day in prison.

Trump has never been convicted of anything. - and I'm saving your militia post for answering later. It's 1:00 in the morning; your post is easily debunked but I'll want to be awake to do it.

 

[Stann]

Not so. That is one reason the Founders protected our God-given right to keep and bear arms, so we can keep communists like you at bay. It's worked for 240 years. The Communists are so close, now, having stripped the States of their power in the Union with the 16th and 17th Amendments, having turned the citizens from citizens of the States to citizens of the Nation with the 16th Amendment, and stripped the States of their militias with the militia laws creating the National Guard. All that remains in their 180 year struggle to replace our republic with all-out communism, is to disarm the people and remove the very last vestige of power in the States: the Electoral College.

They can smell victory and, if Biden gets reelected, they may very well get it in the next 4 years. Regardless of what happens in any election between now and then, if the Republican Party and conservatives don't start honest conversations deep in the ghettos and barrios of the United States, then the Communists will certainly win by the 2044 election when the children of the imported voters head to the polls. If we can't win the minds and hearts of those 30 million illegals Biden has let in, the United States exists for 20 more years as a constitutional republic. If we don't win those minds and hearts, in 2044, every state legislature will be Democrat. The entire Congress, with perhaps a very small number of outlier districts, will be Democrat. They will have super-majorities able to override any fillibuster or veto - not that there would be a veto when both houses and the Whitehouse are all Democratically controlled. The Supreme Court will either be completely leftist or will be stacked to make the remaining years of Kavanaugh and Barrett pointless. And then the Constitutional Amendments will fly. The 1st and 2nd Amendments will be the first to go. What's left of the 4th will be close behind. The America we grew up in has no more than 20 more years - unless we spend the next 20 years winning hearts and minds in the Barrios and Ghettos.

The founding fathers didn't say what you've been lead to.believe they said.

 

[woodwork201]

Throughout my entire life I've heard the people ( NRA ).reinforce the idea that the right was about civilians bearing arms. If you bother to read the entire article. You'll discover they were talking about well-maintained and disciplined state militias , not civilians. There was no federal army. Also these same men took all arms away from anyone who identified as a Tory ( supporting the British. A very community n sense move. Hopefully we will have the same common sense before too many more lives are lost to all this madness.

Let me just say, until I can address the bigger picture of this post, that you're changing the subject. My post you quoted was about your statement that innocent lives are an acceptable loss as long as we get some of the criminals, rather than the age-old American idea that better a hundred guilty go free than one innocent man go to jail. You're going to leave it stand that innocents are an acceptable loss to protect criminals?

 

[candycorn]

They can smell victory and, if Biden gets reelected, they may very well get it in the next 4 years. Regardless of what happens in any election between now and then, if the Republican Party and conservatives don't start honest conversations deep in the ghettos and barrios of the United States, then the Communists will certainly win by the 2044 election when the children of the imported voters head to the polls. If we can't win the minds and hearts of those 30 million illegals Biden has let in, the United States exists for 20 more years as a constitutional republic. If we don't win those minds and hearts, in 2044, every state legislature will be Democrat. The entire Congress, with perhaps a very small number of outlier districts, will be Democrat. They will have super-majorities able to override any fillibuster or veto - not that there would be a veto when both houses and the Whitehouse are all Democratically controlled. The Supreme Court will either be completely leftist or will be stacked to make the remaining years of Kavanaugh and Barrett pointless. And then the Constitutional Amendments will fly. The 1st and 2nd Amendments will be the first to go. What's left of the 4th will be close behind. The America we grew up in has no more than 20 more years - unless we spend the next 20 years winning hearts and minds in the Barrios and Ghettos.

Not that any of your crapolla has any root in reality... why do you capitalize the words "Barrios and Ghettos"?

What do you think the xenophobic, racist, and generally scumbags in the GOP should do to win the "hearts and minds"?

 

[woodwork201]

The founding fathers didn't say what you've been lead to.believe they said.

Want to bet? Tell me what you think they didn't say that I think they did. Tell me what you think the Constitution says or means that I think differently from you. No doubt there are plenty of examples of both but I will defeat you on every question that you can raise in both those cases.
Unlike you, where you quote what you've been told by your leftist masters on CNN and MSNBC, I'm an expert in this. You don't really stand a chance.

 

[Stann]

Let me just say, until I can address the bigger picture of this post, that you're changing the subject. My post you quoted was about your statement that innocent lives are an acceptable loss as long as we get some of the criminals, rather than the age-old American idea that better a hundred guilty go free than one innocent man go to jail. You're going to leave it stand that innocents are an acceptable loss to protect criminals?

The founding fathers didn't think like that .they demanded swift and speedy trials and punishment. Those convicted of murder were hung at sunrise the next day.

 

[woodwork201]

Not that any of your crapolla has any root in reality... why do you capitalize the words "Barrios and Ghettos"?

What do you think the xenophobic, racist, and generally scumbags in the GOP should do to win the "hearts and minds"?

Wow. You got me on a minor point of grammar at 1:30 in the morning. That makes everything I said wrong and everything you said right, doesn't it?

What the GOP and actual conservatives need to do is to get into the ghettos and barrios, with Spanish speakers in the latter case, and start talking to the people. Mothers in those places love their children as much as do the mothers in the whitest suburbs in GOP-land. They want their sons and daughters to have good educations. They want them to experience the American dream. They want them to stay out of gangs and to bring grandchildren into the world. And they want reliable fathers for their children, in the home with them.

The left can offer those mothers none of the things I listed. The left, and their policies, are exactly why those poor mothers know that all of that is out of reach for them and their children.

Conservatives can help them to get those things that really matter to them. Conservatives have to find the way to deliver the message of hope.

This year, Black and Spanish-speaking voters are switching to Trump in droves. Conservatives need to build on that. Take advantage and continue the message. It takes time and money. But we already know the message to give them. I'm not confident at all that the GOP knows how to get the access to deliver the message or how to deliver the message if they get the access.