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The overriding and unspoken issue here is the pressing need for merit and aptitude-based policies, and a willingness to accept the results of those policies.
European countries - like Finland - have populations that are ethnically uniform, have a strong cultural work ethic and value education highly, and - to be blunt - have relatively high average IQ's. The US is dramatically different and no matter what we do we are not going to see them same sorts of results - looking broadly at the entire spectrum of students.
Our schools are all over the lot. And yet we want to think of our schools like factories where the raw materials are fed in, and the products are all uniform and acceptable when they come out.
Intelligent and talented kids should be taught differently from dim-witted, lazy kids. Putting them all together in the same classroom is sacrificing the potential of the most capable students to our desire to be "inclusive" and not to make the dummies feel badly about themselves.
Fortunately or not, any merit-based system is going to result in the people at the top of the spectrum having demographic characteristics that make our "leaders" very uncomfortable. There are going to be a lot of Asians, Jews, Indians, and white kids of northern European ancestry, and very few African Americans and Hispanics. And that phenomenon will NOT be the result of "discrimination," "exclusion," or "white privilege." It will simply be the cream rising to the top.
And by the by, academic "inequality" will increase, generation after generation, once these measures are adopted. As it should.
IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Japan is very aggressive about sports. Especially swimming and basketball.
I doubt that. From my understanding, the elementary schools have zero sports at all. If a parent wishes their child to be part of a sports team, they must join a club, and pay for it themselves.
The elementary school in my home town, recently paid millions to have two baseball diamond built, with an electronic score board. Complete waste of money.
Japan does encourage sports in general, and I have no problem with joining a sports team either. I have no problem with people being active.
Here is what I am opposed to....
View attachment 73198
That's not a major NFL stadium.... That's a high school. The stadium.... is bigger.... than the school.
Hello..... something is wrong. Priorities are screwed up somewhere.
$60 Million dollars for a high school sports stadium? HIGH SCHOOL? There was a school in Ohio that paid out $320,000 for an upgrade to their stadium. That's nutz, let alone millions....
This is the issue.
Now I'll tell you what.... when we cut the education system cost to the level of Japan, which is quite a bit less than how much we spend.... and when we have education outcomes similar to Japan, which are nearly double ours..... THEN you can justify to me, spending tons of money on sports.
Japan is very aggressive about sports. Especially swimming and basketball.
I doubt that. From my understanding, the elementary schools have zero sports at all. If a parent wishes their child to be part of a sports team, they must join a club, and pay for it themselves.
The elementary school in my home town, recently paid millions to have two baseball diamond built, with an electronic score board. Complete waste of money.
Japan does encourage sports in general, and I have no problem with joining a sports team either. I have no problem with people being active.
Here is what I am opposed to....
View attachment 73198
That's not a major NFL stadium.... That's a high school. The stadium.... is bigger.... than the school.
Hello..... something is wrong. Priorities are screwed up somewhere.
$60 Million dollars for a high school sports stadium? HIGH SCHOOL? There was a school in Ohio that paid out $320,000 for an upgrade to their stadium. That's nutz, let alone millions....
This is the issue.
Now I'll tell you what.... when we cut the education system cost to the level of Japan, which is quite a bit less than how much we spend.... and when we have education outcomes similar to Japan, which are nearly double ours..... THEN you can justify to me, spending tons of money on sports.
You seem to have intentionally skipped a couple of minor details. Which, of course, is not surprising.
First, it was the citizens in the area that VOTED TO TAX THEMSELVES to build the stadium.
Second, the stadium is shared by several different high schools.
Third, the stadium is designed to serve different sports.
The REAL issue with the stadium is that it opened in 2012. Since then it has begun CRACKING and is closed for the coming season. That was in 2014. I don't know that status today.
Part of the reason Catholic school students perform better is because they come from families that value education enough to pay tuition to send their children to a good school. Yes, standards and the ability to kick out students who do not conform are part of the mix, but I believe a good part of it is the home environment.IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Ok, but I would still argue that Operation Head Start failed to deal with the real issue.... the real issue being that there is no need to work harder. There is no consequence for being last in the class. There is no incentive for being first in the class.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren
Here's my example.... Take Catholic schools in inner city New York. 75% to 90% varying on year, are black and Hispanic.
And yet..... Catholic schools graduate 95% of their class, while only 50% of public schools graduate.
Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction.
That's huge. Why the difference? This is from a local Catholic high school student handbook.
View attachment 78443
And notice that........ Athletics and extra-curricular activities may only be attended after the completion of mandatory study. Huh.... School.... is for schooling. Funny, almost like what I've been talking about half this thread.
But back to my point with you.... same kids. Same area. Same ethnic group. 95% graduation rate. Instead of 50%.
Now it got cut off (from the limitations of my screen size), but it goes on to say any violation of the contract... and you are dismissed from the school. And you only have one quarter to bring your grades up, or you are dismissed from the school.
But the incentives man.... you either do your work, or you don't go to school anymore. Magically they are able to do the work. Is it because their IQs all by the power of the Pope, doubled? Of course not.
Incentives. I really honestly believe that is the key. No amount of Head Start is going to do jack, when the public school system itself is the cause of the problem. You move these same kids to a school where you either shape up, or ship out... and they shape up. I have been convinced by the evidence, that this is the key. *shrug*.
Part of the reason Catholic school students perform better is because they come from families that value education enough to pay tuition to send their children to a good school. Yes, standards and the ability to kick out students who do not conform are part of the mix, but I believe a good part of it is the home environment.IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Ok, but I would still argue that Operation Head Start failed to deal with the real issue.... the real issue being that there is no need to work harder. There is no consequence for being last in the class. There is no incentive for being first in the class.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren
Here's my example.... Take Catholic schools in inner city New York. 75% to 90% varying on year, are black and Hispanic.
And yet..... Catholic schools graduate 95% of their class, while only 50% of public schools graduate.
Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction.
That's huge. Why the difference? This is from a local Catholic high school student handbook.
View attachment 78443
And notice that........ Athletics and extra-curricular activities may only be attended after the completion of mandatory study. Huh.... School.... is for schooling. Funny, almost like what I've been talking about half this thread.
But back to my point with you.... same kids. Same area. Same ethnic group. 95% graduation rate. Instead of 50%.
Now it got cut off (from the limitations of my screen size), but it goes on to say any violation of the contract... and you are dismissed from the school. And you only have one quarter to bring your grades up, or you are dismissed from the school.
But the incentives man.... you either do your work, or you don't go to school anymore. Magically they are able to do the work. Is it because their IQs all by the power of the Pope, doubled? Of course not.
Incentives. I really honestly believe that is the key. No amount of Head Start is going to do jack, when the public school system itself is the cause of the problem. You move these same kids to a school where you either shape up, or ship out... and they shape up. I have been convinced by the evidence, that this is the key. *shrug*.
...
I'd love to see non-teachers sit in a classroom full of students from high levels of poverty, in gangs, deal drugs, etc. and see how "successful" they will become ....
Part of the reason Catholic school students perform better is because they come from families that value education enough to pay tuition to send their children to a good school. Yes, standards and the ability to kick out students who do not conform are part of the mix, but I believe a good part of it is the home environment.IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Ok, but I would still argue that Operation Head Start failed to deal with the real issue.... the real issue being that there is no need to work harder. There is no consequence for being last in the class. There is no incentive for being first in the class.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren
Here's my example.... Take Catholic schools in inner city New York. 75% to 90% varying on year, are black and Hispanic.
And yet..... Catholic schools graduate 95% of their class, while only 50% of public schools graduate.
Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction.
That's huge. Why the difference? This is from a local Catholic high school student handbook.
View attachment 78443
And notice that........ Athletics and extra-curricular activities may only be attended after the completion of mandatory study. Huh.... School.... is for schooling. Funny, almost like what I've been talking about half this thread.
But back to my point with you.... same kids. Same area. Same ethnic group. 95% graduation rate. Instead of 50%.
Now it got cut off (from the limitations of my screen size), but it goes on to say any violation of the contract... and you are dismissed from the school. And you only have one quarter to bring your grades up, or you are dismissed from the school.
But the incentives man.... you either do your work, or you don't go to school anymore. Magically they are able to do the work. Is it because their IQs all by the power of the Pope, doubled? Of course not.
Incentives. I really honestly believe that is the key. No amount of Head Start is going to do jack, when the public school system itself is the cause of the problem. You move these same kids to a school where you either shape up, or ship out... and they shape up. I have been convinced by the evidence, that this is the key. *shrug*.
Part of the reason Catholic school students perform better is because they come from families that value education enough to pay tuition to send their children to a good school. Yes, standards and the ability to kick out students who do not conform are part of the mix, but I believe a good part of it is the home environment.IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Ok, but I would still argue that Operation Head Start failed to deal with the real issue.... the real issue being that there is no need to work harder. There is no consequence for being last in the class. There is no incentive for being first in the class.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren
Here's my example.... Take Catholic schools in inner city New York. 75% to 90% varying on year, are black and Hispanic.
And yet..... Catholic schools graduate 95% of their class, while only 50% of public schools graduate.
Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction.
That's huge. Why the difference? This is from a local Catholic high school student handbook.
View attachment 78443
And notice that........ Athletics and extra-curricular activities may only be attended after the completion of mandatory study. Huh.... School.... is for schooling. Funny, almost like what I've been talking about half this thread.
But back to my point with you.... same kids. Same area. Same ethnic group. 95% graduation rate. Instead of 50%.
Now it got cut off (from the limitations of my screen size), but it goes on to say any violation of the contract... and you are dismissed from the school. And you only have one quarter to bring your grades up, or you are dismissed from the school.
But the incentives man.... you either do your work, or you don't go to school anymore. Magically they are able to do the work. Is it because their IQs all by the power of the Pope, doubled? Of course not.
Incentives. I really honestly believe that is the key. No amount of Head Start is going to do jack, when the public school system itself is the cause of the problem. You move these same kids to a school where you either shape up, or ship out... and they shape up. I have been convinced by the evidence, that this is the key. *shrug*.
Part of the reason Catholic school students perform better is because they come from families that value education enough to pay tuition to send their children to a good school. Yes, standards and the ability to kick out students who do not conform are part of the mix, but I believe a good part of it is the home environment.IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Ok, but I would still argue that Operation Head Start failed to deal with the real issue.... the real issue being that there is no need to work harder. There is no consequence for being last in the class. There is no incentive for being first in the class.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren
Here's my example.... Take Catholic schools in inner city New York. 75% to 90% varying on year, are black and Hispanic.
And yet..... Catholic schools graduate 95% of their class, while only 50% of public schools graduate.
Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction.
That's huge. Why the difference? This is from a local Catholic high school student handbook.
View attachment 78443
And notice that........ Athletics and extra-curricular activities may only be attended after the completion of mandatory study. Huh.... School.... is for schooling. Funny, almost like what I've been talking about half this thread.
But back to my point with you.... same kids. Same area. Same ethnic group. 95% graduation rate. Instead of 50%.
Now it got cut off (from the limitations of my screen size), but it goes on to say any violation of the contract... and you are dismissed from the school. And you only have one quarter to bring your grades up, or you are dismissed from the school.
But the incentives man.... you either do your work, or you don't go to school anymore. Magically they are able to do the work. Is it because their IQs all by the power of the Pope, doubled? Of course not.
Incentives. I really honestly believe that is the key. No amount of Head Start is going to do jack, when the public school system itself is the cause of the problem. You move these same kids to a school where you either shape up, or ship out... and they shape up. I have been convinced by the evidence, that this is the key. *shrug*.
Those parents have resources than others do. I'd love to see non-teachers sit in a classroom full of students from high levels of poverty, in gangs, deal drugs, etc. and see how "successful" they will become compared to Catholic school teachers.
Part of the reason Catholic school students perform better is because they come from families that value education enough to pay tuition to send their children to a good school. Yes, standards and the ability to kick out students who do not conform are part of the mix, but I believe a good part of it is the home environment.IT IS what it is, and not much can change it.
When Operation Head Start was first proposed, it was sold on the basis that the reason why inner city kids do poorly in school is because their preschool experience is culturally deficient. But 40 years later, we know that by third grade there I s no difference in performance between those who went through OH and those who did not.
Ok, but I would still argue that Operation Head Start failed to deal with the real issue.... the real issue being that there is no need to work harder. There is no consequence for being last in the class. There is no incentive for being first in the class.
Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-CityChildren
Here's my example.... Take Catholic schools in inner city New York. 75% to 90% varying on year, are black and Hispanic.
And yet..... Catholic schools graduate 95% of their class, while only 50% of public schools graduate.
Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction.
That's huge. Why the difference? This is from a local Catholic high school student handbook.
View attachment 78443
And notice that........ Athletics and extra-curricular activities may only be attended after the completion of mandatory study. Huh.... School.... is for schooling. Funny, almost like what I've been talking about half this thread.
But back to my point with you.... same kids. Same area. Same ethnic group. 95% graduation rate. Instead of 50%.
Now it got cut off (from the limitations of my screen size), but it goes on to say any violation of the contract... and you are dismissed from the school. And you only have one quarter to bring your grades up, or you are dismissed from the school.
But the incentives man.... you either do your work, or you don't go to school anymore. Magically they are able to do the work. Is it because their IQs all by the power of the Pope, doubled? Of course not.
Incentives. I really honestly believe that is the key. No amount of Head Start is going to do jack, when the public school system itself is the cause of the problem. You move these same kids to a school where you either shape up, or ship out... and they shape up. I have been convinced by the evidence, that this is the key. *shrug*.
Over the years there are a few things that I've noticed will determine how successful students are in school:
-Attendance
-Self-discipline
-Families that stress the value of an education
Students that lack any of these are most likely to fail their classes.