How much teachers get in each country

[Unkotare]

Texas ain't valuing edacashun, but it values football...backwards state.

Upon what do you base your bigotry?

 

[DGS49]

There is no logical connection between education and sports. If football players spent their spare time studying, rather than playing that game, more of them would end up graduating from college.

None of the western democracies whose educational outcomes we envy has school sports. They are a cancer. If the schools ended this foolishness, amateur sports would survive. Who knows, maybe the NFL and NBA would stop using our colleges as a free Minor League.

 

[Unkotare]

^^^^^^^^ The ignorant speculation of a bitterly arrested adolescent who understands nothing about sports or education in general.

 

[Unkotare]

Sport - Sport And Traditional Cultures



A Companion to Ancient Education



Abstract

 

[Andylusion]

Sport - Sport And Traditional Cultures



A Companion to Ancient Education



Abstract

Ok. First I have a hard time trying to compare present day realities, with the realities of the ancient world.

For example.... the primary method of earning money in the ancient world, was through physical labor. Obviously, playing physical games, can be a value to future success. The physical abilities you learn on the field, can and did, directly translate into the real world.

Today that isn't true. Generally speaking, the value of physical labor is low, compared to the value of mental abilities.

Granted, if you intend to be hauling junk around in a warehouse, then sports is a great pre-career step. But, that's not exactly a ton of money.

I actually knew a guy, who was "Mr. Fitness". He won a bronze at the Arnold Classic here in Ohio. The guy was about as bright as a wet match, but he was a buff strong guy. And he worked in the warehouse. Didn't earn much money.

If that's the goal, go for it. My argument to you, would be we should have separate schools for such things. Go to a school for physical labor. Leave academic teaching to academic schools.

Why? Because we wasted tons of money educating that guy, so that he could walk around and drive a forklift, and have a cheezy bronze medal around his neck. (which he wore to work for a week).

And like I said, this isn't a shocking thing for me. The football stars at my high school, are flipping whoops. There's a reason that stereotype exists, and is funny. It's true. Not universally, not 100%, but in general.... it's true!

Chadiha: Life after NFL a struggle for many

Explain this to me. According to Sports Illustrated, their research showed that 78% of all former athletes end up in difficulty, or bankrupt within 2 years of ending their careers.

Now if you are suggesting these people are just as educated coming out of the sports programs as any other person... then why don't they get a job? Why are they unemployed, and some even homeless?

My person experience, and my unprofessional, guy-on-the-street opinion is.... it's because sports was so promoted at colleges, that education fell by the wayside, and was ignored. Thus after their 'playing games' career was over, they had nothing.

What is your opinion? Or do you not think that is even a problem? Or what is your solution?

 

[Sbiker]

Ha-ha, Russian point, I think, is hidden behind the graph legend

 

[Sbiker]

No way teachers in the US work 45 hours a week.

Yeah, it's a lot more than that.

Right summers off, all kinds of time off during the school year

Not even close to a full time job

Mandatory training and retraining on-going.

Many unpaid obligations.


A lot more than a full-time job. A hell of a lot more than 45 hours a week.

Have you heared, high school teacher is a monk of science, he must work everytime and free, and as salary he can take money only for poor food and no more...

 

[Unkotare]

Sport - Sport And Traditional Cultures



A Companion to Ancient Education



Abstract

Ok. First I have a hard time trying to compare present day realities, with the realities of the ancient world.

For example.... the primary method of earning money in the ancient world, was through physical labor. Obviously, playing physical games, can be a value to future success. The physical abilities you learn on the field, can and did, directly translate into the real world.

Today that isn't true. Generally speaking, the value of physical labor is low, compared to the value of mental abilities. .......

The two are not mutually exclusive, and you speak far too generally.

 

[Unkotare]

..... My argument to you, would be we should have separate schools for such things. Go to a school for physical labor. Leave academic teaching to academic schools.....

The fact that you cannot seem to understand that the two are interrelated explains your obtuse attitude.

 

[Unkotare]

..... Generally speaking, the value of physical labor is low, compared to the value of mental abilities.

Granted, if you intend to be hauling junk around in a warehouse, then sports is a great pre-career step. ....

You sound like a bitter, feeble little thing who never outgrew the frustrations of weakness and a lack of coordination during your youth. If you really don't understand the many, many things that people learn from participation in sports beyond "hauling junk around," then you are remarkably ignorant and/or willfully disingenuous. People thousands and thousands of years ago realized what you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

 

[Unkotare]

..... According to Sports Illustrated, their research showed that 78% of all former athletes end up in difficulty, or bankrupt within 2 years of ending their careers. ....

Former athletes? Or former professional athletes? Do you realize what a minuscule percentage of athletes that represents?

More than half of all high school students participate in sports. A small percentage of those student athletes go on to play in college. An even smaller percentage than that play at the Div.1 level. A much, much smaller percentage than that go on to play professionally in any sport. The more than half of all high school students who play sports - mostly at that level and no further - learn a hell of a lot more than "hauling junk around" unless they are as dimwitted as you.

 

[Andylusion]

..... According to Sports Illustrated, their research showed that 78% of all former athletes end up in difficulty, or bankrupt within 2 years of ending their careers. ....

Former athletes? Or former professional athletes? Do you realize what a minuscule percentage of athletes that represents?

More than half of all high school students participate in sports. A small percentage of those student athletes go on to play in college. An even smaller percentage than that play at the Div.1 level. A much, much smaller percentage than that go on to play professionally in any sport. The more than half of all high school students who play sports - mostly at that level and no further - learn a hell of a lot more than "hauling junk around" unless they are as dimwitted as you.

Hey hey hey.... i'm not your enemy bro. I've been your biggest supporter in many other threads than this. I don't think I earned that kind of insults from you. Do you?

You made a good point though. And while that's true, why is the education system getting worse?

Just again to tell my story.... I went to an inner city school, where a guy asked me how to do a division problem. Not a long division problem.... But a simple division, like 7 divided by 2.

We were in 11th grade at the time. Juniors in High School, and he can't do 7 divided by 2.

But it got worse. When I reached for my pencil and paper..... he said "no, with this"... and handed me his calculator.

Now.... .. something has to be wrong. And no I don't believe that this entire problem is 100% due to sports programs in schools. (by schools I mean both public, and college).

I do not think "if we just eliminated football, education would magically become perfect". I am not suggesting that.

But.... it seems to me that the primary focus of schooling has shift over the past decades, away from education, and more towards other things... one of which is sports.

Now I get it, you clearly think the push of sports has nothing to do with it. But then how do you account for the slide in educational standards?

When you look at tests given to students in the late 1800s, and compare them to today, why has the standard fallen so much? What is your explanation?

Or do you think there isn't even a problem? That's a valid opinion. Some people hold that. I think there is obviously. Do you?

 

[Andylusion]

..... My argument to you, would be we should have separate schools for such things. Go to a school for physical labor. Leave academic teaching to academic schools.....

The fact that you cannot seem to understand that the two are interrelated explains your obtuse attitude.

So your opinion is that playing games... and academic success, are interrelated.

That's an interesting suggestion. Could be true. I'll admit I haven't looked into that at all.

Um... just thinking back on the smartest people I know.... the class valedictorian in all 4 years I was there, and the smartest people beyond them.... I can't think of a single one that was involved in football, or lacrosse. One was a runner on the track team, and a couple were in orchestra. One was in band.

But that's obviously a limited sample size of a few dozens students out of 1,500 per year, for 4 years at the high school I went to.

So you could be right. I don't know. I certainly haven't seen that in my own experience, but that's just me obviously. The last football player I met, was spreading mulch around my Condo.

 

[Sbiker]

..... According to Sports Illustrated, their research showed that 78% of all former athletes end up in difficulty, or bankrupt within 2 years of ending their careers. ....

Former athletes? Or former professional athletes? Do you realize what a minuscule percentage of athletes that represents?

More than half of all high school students participate in sports. A small percentage of those student athletes go on to play in college. An even smaller percentage than that play at the Div.1 level. A much, much smaller percentage than that go on to play professionally in any sport. The more than half of all high school students who play sports - mostly at that level and no further - learn a hell of a lot more than "hauling junk around" unless they are as dimwitted as you.

Hey hey hey.... i'm not your enemy bro. I've been your biggest supporter in many other threads than this. I don't think I earned that kind of insults from you. Do you?

You made a good point though. And while that's true, why is the education system getting worse?

Just again to tell my story.... I went to an inner city school, where a guy asked me how to do a division problem. Not a long division problem.... But a simple division, like 7 divided by 2.

We were in 11th grade at the time. Juniors in High School, and he can't do 7 divided by 2.

But it got worse. When I reached for my pencil and paper..... he said "no, with this"... and handed me his calculator.

Now.... .. something has to be wrong. And no I don't believe that this entire problem is 100% due to sports programs in schools. (by schools I mean both public, and college).

I do not think "if we just eliminated football, education would magically become perfect". I am not suggesting that.

Sport didn't disturb to Pythagorus or Euclid to advance world mathematics level

When you look at tests given to students in the late 1800s, and compare them to today, why has the standard fallen so much? What is your explanation?

Today no one knows, how is right to teach. Information environment of a people changed fast and radically, and still changing. Do the students need to keep in mind a tons of poems, if they can find everything they want to hear through a simple phone? Do they need to make a sophisticated calculations, if computer can do it much more faster? Or they only need to improve "true human abilities", which still cannot be programmed or formalized?

 

[Unkotare]

... . why is the education system getting worse?

...

Is it?

 

[Unkotare]

...

Just again to tell my story.... I went to an inner city school, where a guy asked me how to do a division problem. Not a long division problem.... But a simple division, like 7 divided by 2.

We were in 11th grade at the time. Juniors in High School, and he can't do 7 divided by 2.

But it got worse. When I reached for my pencil and paper..... he said "no, with this"... and handed me his calculator.

Now.... .. something has to be wrong. ....

And you assumed that this reflected something larger than that one kid being a moron who had managed to coast through without learning much?

 

[Unkotare]

.... And no I don't believe that this entire problem is 100% due to sports programs in schools. ....

What makes you think it was due even 1% to sports?

 

[Unkotare]

...... it seems to me that the primary focus of schooling has shift over the past decades, away from education, and more towards other things... ....

Why does it seem that way to you?

 

[Andylusion]

...

Just again to tell my story.... I went to an inner city school, where a guy asked me how to do a division problem. Not a long division problem.... But a simple division, like 7 divided by 2.

We were in 11th grade at the time. Juniors in High School, and he can't do 7 divided by 2.

But it got worse. When I reached for my pencil and paper..... he said "no, with this"... and handed me his calculator.

Now.... .. something has to be wrong. ....

And you assumed that this reflected something larger than that one kid being a moron who had managed to coast through without learning much?

I find it difficult to believe that any kid can somehow managed to 'coast through' 11 years of schooling, and no one noticed he couldn't work 7 divide by 2 on a calculator. That should have been picked up by 5th grade at the latest.

Moreover, it wasn't that one kid either. It was at a minimum, half the class. I was one of 3 or 4 "go to" people when they couldn't answer the questions. Yeah, the kid who couldn't work the calculator, was clearly the most egregious example of ignorance displayed while I was there, but it wasn't even close to the sole example. Many of the kids couldn't write... at least not intelligently. While most could read, they were at best a middle school level of reading. I would guess that most would have a difficult time with a menu at any sit-down restaurant. And math was bafflingly bad throughout the class.

And the irony is, I was a C+ students. In my home school in the suburbs, I was the very last person you would ask for help on school work. But at the other school, I was the equivalent of valedictorian.

Of course my home school, only housed a 1,000+ kids. While the Columbus Public runs 100,000 kids a year.

So the ratio of educated to idiots, is not in our favor.

Now, I don't know how you can possibly get a person without the ability to do the simplest of math problems, to the 11th grade, and not see a systemic problem. I find it difficult to have someone reach 11th grade without the ability to even work a calculator, and consider it a black swan.

Why does it seem that way to you?

Well.... first because both my parents were public school teachers for 40 years. They have said as much. But that's not much to go on.

What I find just as convincing, is you can lookup old education tests given in the late 1800s, and compare them to tests given today. The tests given in the 1890s for 8th grade students, would now be considered high school and college level tests.

Another example would be from Thomas Sowell's book A Personal Odyssey, where he talks about wide spread educational fraud, and students passed, from either cheating or social promotion.

When I was in high school, even in my suburban school, the head football coach was, while being great at football, absolutely useless as a teacher. His methods of 'teaching' were notorious throughout the school. He would come in, put a VCR tape in, hit play, and then sleep, or read, or do other things. The class would sit there watching the tape, and after 30 minutes of the 45 minute class time, he would hand out a questionnaire, which you would fill out, and that was 'teaching' in his class.

He did this literally for decades, until he was caught seducing an under-age girl, and fired.

What makes you think it was due even 1% to sports?

Well that is the question. And you are right to ask.

What it boils down to is, as my answers to your prior questions suggest, I see a major problem in American Education. So there must be some reason, or reason(S), why education is failing.

And the most simple answer, is that of time. I know you are well educated yourself, and I wager you know the concept in economics called "Opportunity Cost".

Whatever time you spending doing X, is time you can't spend doing Y. What time you spend playing video games, you can't spend learning a skill that advanced your career. What time you spend traveling, is time you can't spending working. The hour I spend here responding to forum posts, is an hour I can't spend earning money at a job.

Well the same must logically apply to education. Every hour you spend running on the track, working out in weight training, learning plays, and practicing passes, must by the constraints of time, by not spent doing homework, learning math, and acquiring knowledge.

Now that isn't to say that there are no 'life lessons' to be learned in some sports activities, that are valuable. There are for sure. Learning teamwork is immensely valuable. Sharing. Learning to get along with people for a common goal. How to be humble. Anyone in a team sport, that thinks they are all that matters, will quickly find out how insignificant they are, when the team doesn't work for them. Equally people on a team learn that helping others to achieve their goals, is a great way to achieve their own goals.

And those are all valuable to learn. The question there is, is public schools where you should learn that? You could join any sporting activity and learn these things, without spending public school time, and dollars for such a purpose.

My view is, schools should be singularly focused on the task of academic education. I realize that is a minority opinion, but then that's why we see the drop in academic outcomes.

I think an analogy would be a swiss army knife. We are trying to make schools into institutions that do everything, and as a result are good at nothing. The swiss army knife has a spoon, that isn't good as a spoon, and a knife that isn't good as a knife.

If you want a good knife, buy a real knife. If you want a good spoon, buy a real spoon. Schools should be primarily and specifically focused on schooling. Have other organizations do sports.... and band... and chess clubs... and so on.

 

[Unkotare]

Comparing tests from the 1800s is highly irrational. Talk about apples and oranges....