How Much Should We Fine Them per day ???

[jc456]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.

Did you continue reading?

Somewhat ironically, the Gold King mine was not the object of the cleanup. The agency had planned to plug a mine [.pdf] just below it, the Red and Bonita Mine, with the goal of reducing acid runoff from that mine.

Since mines are interconnected, however, and a plug in one can lead to more water flowing out the other, the agency planned to “remove the blockage and reconstruct the portal at the Gold King Mine in order to best observe possible changes in discharge caused by the installation of Red and Bonita Mine bulkhead.”

That project began July 2015. The Gold King Mine released its toxic load at 10:30 a.m. August 4, 2015.

Peter Butler, who serves as a co-coordinater of the Animas River Stakeholders Group, a roundtable, said the EPA knew there was water sitting at the mine.

“It was known that there was a pool of water back in the mine, and EPA had a plan to remove that water and treat it, you know, slowly. But things didn’t go quite the way they planned and there was a lot more water in there then they thought, and it just kind of burst out of the mine.”

Butler offered cautious support for the EPA’s work at the mine, in light of the spill.

“I think that they were doing a reasonable job, maybe there were some other steps that could have been taken, that could have prevented it. But I think it was a big surprise for almost everybody,” said Butler.

Even without agency mistakes, mines do experience blowouts from time to time -- although generally not on so large a scale, said Butler.

I did, they were there for one reason and one reason only. Did you read that part? Had nothing to do with leaky water. Go back and reread why they were there. It is in what I posted earlier in the excerpt.

 

[jc456]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

it's what happens in the real world when one messes up and causes pain and anguish to others. Ask BP!

 

[jc456]

Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Such typical right wing authoritarian thinking...you folks have one solution for everything...punishment and more punishment...

Every time I read what you folks write it elicits Robert Frost hired man... nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope

Right! Bankrupt coal companies, force oil companies to pony up billions to people unaffected by, but close in proximity to an oil spill, but don't punish EPA for a world class fuck up.
Had it been the mining company that spilled 3 million gallons of toxic waste into a river, they'd be on the hook for billions, but you thing the assholes behind this should get bonuses and a Christmas holiday party.
You're fucked up, pal.

and that isn't punishment? Wow, just wow, what the fk is with these k00ks?

 

[Stephanie]

one of 2000 comments with the article on hud.

SNIP:
Hud is a disgrace to the American people as much as our Congress, or for that matter any Government Agency in the USA
FROM:
A family in public housing makes 498 000. HUD wants them to stay.

SO IS the EPA, DOE, BLM, and the Federal Monster just keeps growing and growing until they consume US THE taxpayers

 

[Foxfyre]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

Again it is not punishment to hold people accountable for what they do. It is not punishment when we expect those responsible to accept the consequences for the bad choices they make and to make it right as much as possible.

What's the alternative? Don't sue the uninsured drunk driver that totaled your car? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He didn't mean to do it. So instead of holding him accountable we should just suck up the cost ourselves and forget it?

What's the alternative? Don't require the contractor who drops the tree on your house to pay for the damages? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He sure didn't intend for that to happen. So if the mistake costs you a bundle or hurts you, we shouldn't require the person who did it to accept responsibility and be accountable for that?

What makes those in government such a protected class that they should not be held to the same standard? Anybody can make a mistake, right? Because it is government that made a huge expensive mess that hurt hundreds/thousands of people, nobody in government should be held accountable and all the rest of us should pony up extra taxes or except more and more debt to clean it up?

What kind of logic is that?

 

[Bfgrn]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

Again it is not punishment to hold people accountable for what they do. It is not punishment when we expect those responsible to accept the consequences for the bad choices they make and to make it right as much as possible.

What's the alternative? Don't sue the uninsured drunk driver that totaled your car? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He didn't mean to do it. So instead of holding him accountable we should just suck up the cost ourselves and forget it?

What's the alternative? Don't require the contractor who drops the tree on your house to pay for the damages? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He sure didn't intend for that to happen. So if the mistake costs you a bundle or hurts you, we shouldn't require the person who did it to accept responsibility and be accountable for that?

What makes those in government such a protected class that they should not be held to the same standard? Anybody can make a mistake, right? Because it is government that made a huge expensive mess that hurt hundreds/thousands of people, nobody in government should be held accountable and all the rest of us should pony up extra taxes or except more and more debt to clean it up?

What kind of logic is that?

Your post prescribed punishment...and now you are trying to redefine it...it is what it is no matter how you try to spin it.

Go back and READ what you wrote...my GOD!

 

[Foxfyre]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

Again it is not punishment to hold people accountable for what they do. It is not punishment when we expect those responsible to accept the consequences for the bad choices they make and to make it right as much as possible.

What's the alternative? Don't sue the uninsured drunk driver that totaled your car? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He didn't mean to do it. So instead of holding him accountable we should just suck up the cost ourselves and forget it?

What's the alternative? Don't require the contractor who drops the tree on your house to pay for the damages? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He sure didn't intend for that to happen. So if the mistake costs you a bundle or hurts you, we shouldn't require the person who did it to accept responsibility and be accountable for that?

What makes those in government such a protected class that they should not be held to the same standard? Anybody can make a mistake, right? Because it is government that made a huge expensive mess that hurt hundreds/thousands of people, nobody in government should be held accountable and all the rest of us should pony up extra taxes or except more and more debt to clean it up?

What kind of logic is that?

Your post prescribed punishment...and now you are trying to redefine it...it is what it is no matter how you try to spin it.

Go back and READ what you wrote...my GOD!

I don't have to go back to re-read it. I know exactly what I said. And I see that as holding the people responsible and accountable for a mess they caused rather than forcing the taxpayer to be held responsible and accountable for it. Nothing I have posted since changes that in any way. If you think that is 'punishment' I'm sorry. I sure don't have any clue what you would consider holding somebody responsible and accountable would be then.

Do you believe people in government should not be held responsible and accountable when they make a mistake that hurts people?

 

[Bfgrn]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.

Did you continue reading?

Somewhat ironically, the Gold King mine was not the object of the cleanup. The agency had planned to plug a mine [.pdf] just below it, the Red and Bonita Mine, with the goal of reducing acid runoff from that mine.

Since mines are interconnected, however, and a plug in one can lead to more water flowing out the other, the agency planned to “remove the blockage and reconstruct the portal at the Gold King Mine in order to best observe possible changes in discharge caused by the installation of Red and Bonita Mine bulkhead.”

That project began July 2015. The Gold King Mine released its toxic load at 10:30 a.m. August 4, 2015.

Peter Butler, who serves as a co-coordinater of the Animas River Stakeholders Group, a roundtable, said the EPA knew there was water sitting at the mine.

“It was known that there was a pool of water back in the mine, and EPA had a plan to remove that water and treat it, you know, slowly. But things didn’t go quite the way they planned and there was a lot more water in there then they thought, and it just kind of burst out of the mine.”

Butler offered cautious support for the EPA’s work at the mine, in light of the spill.

“I think that they were doing a reasonable job, maybe there were some other steps that could have been taken, that could have prevented it. But I think it was a big surprise for almost everybody,” said Butler.

Even without agency mistakes, mines do experience blowouts from time to time -- although generally not on so large a scale, said Butler.

I did, they were there for one reason and one reason only. Did you read that part? Had nothing to do with leaky water. Go back and reread why they were there. It is in what I posted earlier in the excerpt.

And what were they there for Einstein?

 

[Bfgrn]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

Again it is not punishment to hold people accountable for what they do. It is not punishment when we expect those responsible to accept the consequences for the bad choices they make and to make it right as much as possible.

What's the alternative? Don't sue the uninsured drunk driver that totaled your car? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He didn't mean to do it. So instead of holding him accountable we should just suck up the cost ourselves and forget it?

What's the alternative? Don't require the contractor who drops the tree on your house to pay for the damages? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He sure didn't intend for that to happen. So if the mistake costs you a bundle or hurts you, we shouldn't require the person who did it to accept responsibility and be accountable for that?

What makes those in government such a protected class that they should not be held to the same standard? Anybody can make a mistake, right? Because it is government that made a huge expensive mess that hurt hundreds/thousands of people, nobody in government should be held accountable and all the rest of us should pony up extra taxes or except more and more debt to clean it up?

What kind of logic is that?

Your post prescribed punishment...and now you are trying to redefine it...it is what it is no matter how you try to spin it.

Go back and READ what you wrote...my GOD!

I don't have to go back to re-read it. I know exactly what I said. And I see that as holding the people responsible and accountable for a mess they caused rather than forcing the taxpayer to be held responsible and accountable for it. Nothing I have posted since changes that in any way. If you think that is 'punishment' I'm sorry. I sure don't have any clue what you would consider holding somebody responsible and accountable would be then.

Do you believe people in government should not be held responsible and accountable when they make a mistake that hurts people?

Responsible...they clean it up

Punishment...
Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

 

[Foxfyre]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

Again it is not punishment to hold people accountable for what they do. It is not punishment when we expect those responsible to accept the consequences for the bad choices they make and to make it right as much as possible.

What's the alternative? Don't sue the uninsured drunk driver that totaled your car? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He didn't mean to do it. So instead of holding him accountable we should just suck up the cost ourselves and forget it?

What's the alternative? Don't require the contractor who drops the tree on your house to pay for the damages? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He sure didn't intend for that to happen. So if the mistake costs you a bundle or hurts you, we shouldn't require the person who did it to accept responsibility and be accountable for that?

What makes those in government such a protected class that they should not be held to the same standard? Anybody can make a mistake, right? Because it is government that made a huge expensive mess that hurt hundreds/thousands of people, nobody in government should be held accountable and all the rest of us should pony up extra taxes or except more and more debt to clean it up?

What kind of logic is that?

Your post prescribed punishment...and now you are trying to redefine it...it is what it is no matter how you try to spin it.

Go back and READ what you wrote...my GOD!

I don't have to go back to re-read it. I know exactly what I said. And I see that as holding the people responsible and accountable for a mess they caused rather than forcing the taxpayer to be held responsible and accountable for it. Nothing I have posted since changes that in any way. If you think that is 'punishment' I'm sorry. I sure don't have any clue what you would consider holding somebody responsible and accountable would be then.

Do you believe people in government should not be held responsible and accountable when they make a mistake that hurts people?

Responsible...they clean it up

Punishment...
Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Oh, so if they have to use their existing budget that is punishment. But if they can force the rest of us to pay for it however much THEY decide that will be, they are taking responsibility. Got it. Do have a nice day.

 

[Bfgrn]

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

Again it is not punishment to hold people accountable for what they do. It is not punishment when we expect those responsible to accept the consequences for the bad choices they make and to make it right as much as possible.

What's the alternative? Don't sue the uninsured drunk driver that totaled your car? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He didn't mean to do it. So instead of holding him accountable we should just suck up the cost ourselves and forget it?

What's the alternative? Don't require the contractor who drops the tree on your house to pay for the damages? Anybody can make a mistake, right? He sure didn't intend for that to happen. So if the mistake costs you a bundle or hurts you, we shouldn't require the person who did it to accept responsibility and be accountable for that?

What makes those in government such a protected class that they should not be held to the same standard? Anybody can make a mistake, right? Because it is government that made a huge expensive mess that hurt hundreds/thousands of people, nobody in government should be held accountable and all the rest of us should pony up extra taxes or except more and more debt to clean it up?

What kind of logic is that?

Your post prescribed punishment...and now you are trying to redefine it...it is what it is no matter how you try to spin it.

Go back and READ what you wrote...my GOD!

I don't have to go back to re-read it. I know exactly what I said. And I see that as holding the people responsible and accountable for a mess they caused rather than forcing the taxpayer to be held responsible and accountable for it. Nothing I have posted since changes that in any way. If you think that is 'punishment' I'm sorry. I sure don't have any clue what you would consider holding somebody responsible and accountable would be then.

Do you believe people in government should not be held responsible and accountable when they make a mistake that hurts people?

Responsible...they clean it up

Punishment...
Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Oh, so if they have to use their existing budget that is punishment. But if they can force the rest of us to pay for it however much THEY decide that will be, they are taking responsibility. Got it. Do have a nice day.

No, you don't "Got it"...

You want to prescribe 'punishment' for everyone..."this study or that research project" has to be taken away...studies or research that could save humans fish or fowl from harm...

You just can't help yourself...punish, punish, punish...etc. etc. etc.

 

[Bfgrn]

WHY the EPA was there in the first place...

Exactly NONE of this was caused by the EPA...

A series of abandoned mines in the Upper Animas Basin has been spewing toxic metals into the local water system for more than 20 years. Scientists say it’s the largest untreated mine drainage in the state, and problematic concentrations of zinc, copper, cadmium, iron, lead, manganese and aluminum are choking off the Upper Animas River’s ecosystem.

Between 2005 and 2010, three out of four of the fish species that lived in the Upper Animas beneath Silverton died. According to studies by the U.S. Geological Survey, the volume of insects and the number of bug species have plummeted. And since 2006, USGS scientists have found that the water flowing under Bakers Bridge – then downstream, into Durango – carries concentrations of zinc that are toxic to animal life.

The Durango Herald 04 22 2014 Silverton flirting with Superfund

 

[jc456]

WHY the EPA was there in the first place...

Exactly NONE of this was caused by the EPA...

A series of abandoned mines in the Upper Animas Basin has been spewing toxic metals into the local water system for more than 20 years. Scientists say it’s the largest untreated mine drainage in the state, and problematic concentrations of zinc, copper, cadmium, iron, lead, manganese and aluminum are choking off the Upper Animas River’s ecosystem.

Between 2005 and 2010, three out of four of the fish species that lived in the Upper Animas beneath Silverton died. According to studies by the U.S. Geological Survey, the volume of insects and the number of bug species have plummeted. And since 2006, USGS scientists have found that the water flowing under Bakers Bridge – then downstream, into Durango – carries concentrations of zinc that are toxic to animal life.

The Durango Herald 04 22 2014 Silverton flirting with Superfund

Here is why they were there.

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.