How Much Should We Fine Them per day ???

[jc456]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

 

[Agit8r]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

 

[jc456]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

nope, that's a fact. you should use the internet and check it out.

 

[Foxfyre]

As nearly as I could figure out, he said something to the effect that costs and taxes are the same thing, and if one private business has to pay to clean up a mess it made, that everybody else has to pay too. And because I didn't agree with that, I am stupid.

nope not you either, it was intended for bfgrn. follow the thread.

I have and if you intended your comments for another member, why did you quote my posts to make insulting personal comments to me? Not that I really care. I generally figure those who can't make a point without personally insulting somebody probably don't know much about what they are talking about anyway. And in this case the point was that when the government has to clean up a mess it made, we ALL pay for that. That is not the case so much when a private business has to clean up a mess it made.

But then again, according to you I don't know or understand anything so oh well. . . .

so what part of, it wasn't at you, didn't you understand? again, follow the thread. My reply was to ernie who backed my post. I was merely commenting that the person he replied to had no brain. That ended up being bfgrn. NOT YOU. What the hell, you have no post from me at you, nor any reference therein. Where show me where I posted anything at you insulting?

So if your Posts 252, 254, and 258 were not directed at me, who were they directed to? If your intent was not to insult me, you really should quote those you intend to insult to avoid that kind of confusion.

looked at those posts and yep, they were in response to you. Exactly how did I insult you?

Well if you don't know, nothing I will say will likely educate you. Do have a nice day.

 

[jc456]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.

 

[jc456]

nope not you either, it was intended for bfgrn. follow the thread.

I have and if you intended your comments for another member, why did you quote my posts to make insulting personal comments to me? Not that I really care. I generally figure those who can't make a point without personally insulting somebody probably don't know much about what they are talking about anyway. And in this case the point was that when the government has to clean up a mess it made, we ALL pay for that. That is not the case so much when a private business has to clean up a mess it made.

But then again, according to you I don't know or understand anything so oh well. . . .

so what part of, it wasn't at you, didn't you understand? again, follow the thread. My reply was to ernie who backed my post. I was merely commenting that the person he replied to had no brain. That ended up being bfgrn. NOT YOU. What the hell, you have no post from me at you, nor any reference therein. Where show me where I posted anything at you insulting?

So if your Posts 252, 254, and 258 were not directed at me, who were they directed to? If your intent was not to insult me, you really should quote those you intend to insult to avoid that kind of confusion.

looked at those posts and yep, they were in response to you. Exactly how did I insult you?

Well if you don't know, nothing I will say will likely educate you. Do have a nice day.

Well I'm sorry that you are uneducated on how the flow of money happens in the country. Now, if that is insulting not sure what to say, it is a fact based off your posts. Why not learn where a dollar comes from in private business, perhaps that would help with these sort of analogies.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have and if you intended your comments for another member, why did you quote my posts to make insulting personal comments to me? Not that I really care. I generally figure those who can't make a point without personally insulting somebody probably don't know much about what they are talking about anyway. And in this case the point was that when the government has to clean up a mess it made, we ALL pay for that. That is not the case so much when a private business has to clean up a mess it made.

But then again, according to you I don't know or understand anything so oh well. . . .

so what part of, it wasn't at you, didn't you understand? again, follow the thread. My reply was to ernie who backed my post. I was merely commenting that the person he replied to had no brain. That ended up being bfgrn. NOT YOU. What the hell, you have no post from me at you, nor any reference therein. Where show me where I posted anything at you insulting?

So if your Posts 252, 254, and 258 were not directed at me, who were they directed to? If your intent was not to insult me, you really should quote those you intend to insult to avoid that kind of confusion.

looked at those posts and yep, they were in response to you. Exactly how did I insult you?

Well if you don't know, nothing I will say will likely educate you. Do have a nice day.

Well I'm sorry that you are uneducated on how the flow of money happens in the country. Now, if that is insulting not sure what to say, it is a fact based off your posts. Why not learn where a dollar comes from in private business, perhaps that would help with these sort of analogies.

Yes, my college equivalent of a minor in economics and years as a business owner obviously makes me less qualified and much more poorly educated than you to understand these things. Thanks for pointing that out. Again, have a nice day.

 

[Agit8r]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.

If it was "all cleaned up" as you claim, there would be nothing to release.

 

[jc456]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.

If it was "all cleaned up" as you claim, there would be nothing to release.

how do you figure? Did you even read it? Do you even know what the issue is in the mines? Been sitting there for many a year not hurting no one.

 

[jc456]

so what part of, it wasn't at you, didn't you understand? again, follow the thread. My reply was to ernie who backed my post. I was merely commenting that the person he replied to had no brain. That ended up being bfgrn. NOT YOU. What the hell, you have no post from me at you, nor any reference therein. Where show me where I posted anything at you insulting?

So if your Posts 252, 254, and 258 were not directed at me, who were they directed to? If your intent was not to insult me, you really should quote those you intend to insult to avoid that kind of confusion.

looked at those posts and yep, they were in response to you. Exactly how did I insult you?

Well if you don't know, nothing I will say will likely educate you. Do have a nice day.

Well I'm sorry that you are uneducated on how the flow of money happens in the country. Now, if that is insulting not sure what to say, it is a fact based off your posts. Why not learn where a dollar comes from in private business, perhaps that would help with these sort of analogies.

Yes, my college equivalent of a minor in economics and years as a business owner obviously makes me less qualified and much more poorly educated than you to understand these things. Thanks for pointing that out. Again, have a nice day.

I guess so, not sure you knew where the money to buy goods came from. Aliens?

 

[jon_berzerk]

i am not the only one to be saying that

put nothing past this admin

I don't either. I don't trust them as far as I can spit

seems info came out before the "accident" that this might happen

 

[Stephanie]

i am not the only one to be saying that

put nothing past this admin

I don't either. I don't trust them as far as I can spit

seems info came out before the "accident" that this might happen

yep, just how Weird is that. I've lost all faith in the Government especially after being LIED to so much by this administration and Obama won LIE of the year for OscamCare. Gruber coming out saying the American citizens are stupid. which I'm beginning to believe watching some of these take the Governments side over their own fellow country men and women. The Epa and a lot of other worthless agencies should be abolished. think of all the money WE would save. We have STATE Governments that should be in charge of these things.

 

[Bfgrn]

Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Such typical right wing authoritarian thinking...you folks have one solution for everything...punishment and more punishment...

Every time I read what you folks write it elicits Robert Frost hired man... nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope

 

[jc456]

i am not the only one to be saying that

put nothing past this admin

I don't either. I don't trust them as far as I can spit

seems info came out before the "accident" that this might happen

yep, just how Weird is that. I've lost all faith in the Government especially after being LIED to so much by this administration and Obama won LIE of the year for OscamCare. Gruber coming out saying the American citizens are stupid. which I'm beginning to believe watching some of these take the Governments side over their own fellow country men and women. The Epa and a lot of other worthless agencies should be abolished. think of all the money WE would save. We have STATE Governments that should be in charge of these things.

they don't care about humans, it's quite obvious daily in here. They like people to be dumbed down to suppress them and keep them needy. That is the liberal way of life. And, they're proud of it!! Saw a stat earlier today Obama care hurt 26% and helped 16% and no one gives two hoots about the 26%. Nope only the 16%. True voter obedience in that bunch.

 

[Foxfyre]

Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Such typical right wing authoritarian thinking...you folks have one solution for everything...punishment and more punishment...

Every time I read what you folks write it elicits Robert Frost hired man... nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

 

[jc456]

Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Such typical right wing authoritarian thinking...you folks have one solution for everything...punishment and more punishment...

Every time I read what you folks write it elicits Robert Frost hired man... nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope

_Pride_ did you say _Pride_ so you're proud the EPA went in and devasted human and eco life? Wow, anything to cover up for the goofs of this country. Hell, why not just go in and take everyone down you're so bold and full of Pride.

Amazing losing left with dignity for all!!!!!

 

[Bfgrn]

The company that operated the mine should have cleaned up the site completely. There should have been no tailing pond to tap. The estate of the mining company owners should be the ones paying.

they did clean it up. Had it under control, told the EPA to leave it alone. And...........

Is that the Fox News version of the story? Well, I can't argue with political faith.

here a link for ya to read:

Why Was The Environmental Protection Agency Messing With A Mine Above Silverton KUNC

Thanks to By Stephanie Paige Ogburn and KUNC Music;

excerpt:

"Enter The Environmental Protection Agency

For years, the EPA has wanted to name areas around Silverton as a Superfund site. This brings funding for cleanups. The town, in turn, has resisted, fearing the label would be toxic to tourism. (pun intended.)

Recently, the town and the agency came to a sort of detente. The EPA wouldn’t list the site as Superfund, also called the National Priority List, as long as efforts were made to improve water quality near the mines. The EPA agreed to pay for those efforts, which recently got underway."

Wish you environ wackos would do your homework before making yourselves look foolish. Then I wouldn't have to go and pull links to prove you were in error.

Did you continue reading?

Somewhat ironically, the Gold King mine was not the object of the cleanup. The agency had planned to plug a mine [.pdf] just below it, the Red and Bonita Mine, with the goal of reducing acid runoff from that mine.

Since mines are interconnected, however, and a plug in one can lead to more water flowing out the other, the agency planned to “remove the blockage and reconstruct the portal at the Gold King Mine in order to best observe possible changes in discharge caused by the installation of Red and Bonita Mine bulkhead.”

That project began July 2015. The Gold King Mine released its toxic load at 10:30 a.m. August 4, 2015.

Peter Butler, who serves as a co-coordinater of the Animas River Stakeholders Group, a roundtable, said the EPA knew there was water sitting at the mine.

“It was known that there was a pool of water back in the mine, and EPA had a plan to remove that water and treat it, you know, slowly. But things didn’t go quite the way they planned and there was a lot more water in there then they thought, and it just kind of burst out of the mine.”

Butler offered cautious support for the EPA’s work at the mine, in light of the spill.

“I think that they were doing a reasonable job, maybe there were some other steps that could have been taken, that could have prevented it. But I think it was a big surprise for almost everybody,” said Butler.

Even without agency mistakes, mines do experience blowouts from time to time -- although generally not on so large a scale, said Butler.

 

[Bfgrn]

It has nothing to do whatsoever with punishment. It has everything to do with being held accountable and taking responsibility for your own mistakes.

Do you think just because people are in government they should not have to be held accountable for their mistakes or that there be no consequences for the harm that they do?

And your prescription for someone making a mistake...PUNISHMENT

 

[Ernie S.]

Exactly. Instead of using their existing budget to fund this study or that research project, they should be told they'll have to forego all that non essential stuff as well as bonuses or the agency Christmas parties, etc. etc. etc. and redirect the funds to the clean up. Simple.

Such typical right wing authoritarian thinking...you folks have one solution for everything...punishment and more punishment...

Every time I read what you folks write it elicits Robert Frost hired man... nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope

Right! Bankrupt coal companies, force oil companies to pony up billions to people unaffected by, but close in proximity to an oil spill, but don't punish EPA for a world class fuck up.
Had it been the mining company that spilled 3 million gallons of toxic waste into a river, they'd be on the hook for billions, but you think the assholes behind this should get bonuses and a Christmas holiday party.
You're fucked up, pal.

 

[Stephanie]

this is what I'm talking about folks. Agencies on top of Agencies we taxpayers are getting HOSED. AND THEY are suppose to be OUR KEEPERS?

snip;
A family in public housing makes $498,000. HUD wants them to stay.

The Washington Post
Lisa Rein16 hrs ago
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A family of four in New York City makes $497,911 a year but pays $1,574 a month to live in public housing in a three-bedroom apartment subsidized by taxpayers.

In Los Angeles, a family of five that’s lived in public housing since 1974 made $204,784 last year but paid $1,091 for a four-bedroom apartment. And a tenant with assets worth $1.6 million — including stocks, real estate and retirement accounts — last year paid $300 for a one-bedroom apartment in public housing in Oxford, Neb.

In a new report, the watchdog for the Department of Housing and Urban Development describes these and more than 25,000 other “over income” families earning more than the maximum income for government-subsidized housing as an “egregious” abuse of the system. While the family in New York with an annual income of almost $500,000 raked in $790,500 in rental income on its real estate holdings in recent years, more than 300,000 families that really qualify for public housing lingered on waiting lists, auditors found.

But HUD has no plans to kick these families out, because its policy doesn’t require over-income tenants to leave, the agency’s inspector general found. In fact, it encourages them to stay in public housing.

all of it here:
A family in public housing makes 498 000. HUD wants them to stay.