How many of you think socialism simply rewards the lazy?

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Vanquish, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Vanquish
    Offline

    Vanquish Vanquisher of shills

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,659
    Thanks Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +358
    Like it or not we're already in a "mixed economy" - meaning part capitalism, part socialism. We have a government that redistributes wealth through taxes and entitlement programs. It's a fact.

    Here's my question:

    How many of you are against Obama's healthcare reform, at least in part, because you think you'll be paying for lazy, dont want to work, taking advantage, good for nothings?


    Really think about it...and I'd like to hear your honest answer.

    I ask this because my wife basically said as much when we were discussing healthcare today. She said she didn't want to pay for people who were (insert standard comment about welfare laze-abouts).

    Is this part of the argument that Obama needs to address to get his message across?
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  2. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    Nope, I think most of us want everyone to be able to get health care. We don't want the government involved with our own care or relationship with our doctors. If the 'reforms' were to fix portability, tort reform, closing pre-existing conditions, providing for 'high risk' policies, it would not be controversial.

    However, it's a 1k+ monstrosity that simply cannot be read with all the add ons. It addresses taxes and gives information from physicians to IRS. Something real 'fishy' about it and that's what has people really angry.
     
  3. Zoom-boing
    Offline

    Zoom-boing Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    25,062
    Thanks Received:
    7,260
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    East Japip
    Ratings:
    +10,122
    There are lazy, don't want to work, taking advantage, good for nothings, as well as illegals, who will get a free ride from a government-run program. While I'm fine with providing affordable health care for people who need it, I'm not a fan of doing this for anyone who is taking advantage of the system in any way.

    Having said that, I'm against government-run health care because it's not the government's job to provide this. Is the health care system in need of repair? Yes. Is the government opening up it's own branch of health insurance the answer? No. Fix the problems that exist in the current system we have - as Annie noted, pre-existing conditions, affordable health care for individuals outside of employers providing it, portability, etc. But to create another government-run program as a solution? Nope.

    If they really wanted to fix the problems they could and they wouldn't have people reacting the way they are. But as I've stated numerous times, the health care reform that's being presented has little to do with reform and everything to do with growing the government.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. Vanquish
    Offline

    Vanquish Vanquisher of shills

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,659
    Thanks Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +358
    Interesting that you say portability...a lot of people are screaming over this information card that has your insurance and medical information on it. I can see how that might be Orwellian to some, but it addresses the issue of portability of healthcare information quite well I think.

    And when you say you want "everyone" to get healthcare...watch out...that's socialism, if the everyone you're talking about includes people who can't pay for it themselves.

    Tort reform is a crock and I've addressed that in the other thread.

    A bill being 1000 pages is nothing new and it doesn't make it unable to be read. In law school I often had to read over 200 pages a night, in addition to clerking, and other work, and doing my chores for my wife, and going over to my dad's to help him out (he had a stroke and needs help)...etc etc. you get the picture. It's a lot to read in one sitting...but it's not a lot to read over the span of a week.

    But my wife really shocked me when she pulled out the old "urban welfare types are just going to take advantage" argument. I'm betting there are more people who believe that way out there.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
    Offline

    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    17,416
    Thanks Received:
    2,855
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    America's Home Town
    Ratings:
    +2,863
    I wasn't too worried about having to pay for people who dont WANT to work but can. I'm more worried about the actual govt failing to handle it properly once it is made law.

    Our government has shown time and again that whenever it runs some kind of "entilement" "socialistic" style program that it will do 3 things:
    1. Underfunding/costing way more than they estimated (medicare has cost 10x what they initially estimated, adjusted for inflation)
    2. General Failure to provide the service they promised (Social Security going bankrupt)
    3. Corruption (The very thing your wife is worried about, people who dont need/deserve it taking advantage of the system)

     
  6. Maple
    Offline

    Maple Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,674
    Thanks Received:
    568
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +568
    Right on Zoom, the liberals in the democratic party are already fighting to keep in the public option, this is all about total control of health care, total control of the American people and THEIR MONEY.

    They could easily fix the HEALTH INSURANCE problems we all face with tort reform, opening up competition in the states, health insurance savings accounts. They won't do it.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  7. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,782
    Thanks Received:
    2,364
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,292
    Access to healthcare is essential in a free society, it is similar to other services provided by the society to its members. That only the rich have this access in America is discriminatory.

    I feel all American citizens should have the same rights and privileges. It is a constitutional and moral argument position. I'm sure there are lots of lazy freeloaders with excellent healthcare, the argument the lazy will somehow benefit is bizarre to me. Most people have a bit of laziness in them. And if the sick get well maybe they won't be lazy. lol
     
  8. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    You asked if we were dolts as you seem to assume your wife is. It's not the ability or inability to read 1000 pages, I've no problem reading long texts. The problem if you bothered to read it, is the 'additions' thrown throughout, sections and subsections that are related to other titles within. Even lawyers are having trouble reading the bill, imagine what implementation would be like, if it were to pass. :eusa_hand:
     
  9. Big Black Dog
    Offline

    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    22,906
    Thanks Received:
    5,107
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Ratings:
    +5,702
    I completely agree with your wife. I think she is right on the money with her thoughts. If I understand it correctly, passing this health care reform will cause us to be paying for the health care of about a third of the population. My guess is that third will be all lower income individuals, illegal aliens, and most specifically people who generally live off of the public dole anyway. I don't think the Constitution makes a provision for the government handing out this kind of freebies. Health care/insurance is not a "right" that is to be provided by the government. The government has no business in this pot of stew and neither do they in the auto industry, banking and mortgage industry either. It would be nice if they paid more attention to the Consititution and the actual real will of the working people of this country. Simply put, why would I want to pay more taxes just so a "no load freeloader" could get free health care?
     
  10. Zoom-boing
    Offline

    Zoom-boing Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    25,062
    Thanks Received:
    7,260
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    East Japip
    Ratings:
    +10,122
    Who has access to excellent health care -- the rich or the lazy freeloaders?
     

Share This Page