How Christianity saved civilization

[Shogun]

you have problems with abstract concepts in general, dont you?


I was making an allusion to two relevant divides between science and religion. I guess I should have taped the edges before you liked the page and gave your tongue a papercut.

 

[jillian]

The Church was a memtic institution to which a barbarian people could direct their respect, and in this capacity it saved the skillset cultivated by the preceeding people until the barbarians had become settled enough to utilize such.

Scriptorium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If one believes in memetics.

Bribiesca, a critic to memetics, calls it "a pseudoscientific dogma" and "a dangerous idea that poses a threat to the serious study of conciousness and cultural evolution" among other things. As factual criticism, he refers to the lack of a code script for memes, as the DNA is for genes, and to the fact that the meme mutation mechanism (i.e., an idea going from one brain to another) is too unstable (low replication accuracy and high mutation rate), which would render the evolutionary process chaotic.[2]

Another scientific critique comes from semiotics, (e.g., Deacon[3], Kull[4]) stating that the concept of meme is a primitivized concept of sign. Meme is thus described in memetics as a sign without its triadic nature. In other words, meme is a degenerate sign, which includes only its ability of being copied. Accordingly, the objects of copying are memes, whereas the objects of translation (sensu lato) and interpretation are signs.

Memetics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

btw, I think you might have linked scriptorum by mistake.

*Edit* Even if I were a believer in memetics, I'd still say christianity was duplicative since the purposes for which you believe christianity existed already existed in judaism which predated it by, what... 3,000 years?

 

[manifold]

you have problems with abstract concepts in general, dont you?


I was making an allusion to two relevant divides between science and religion. I guess I should have taped the edges before you liked the page and gave your tongue a papercut.

hehehe!

Thanks for not letting me down.

 

[Shogun]

hehehe!

Thanks for not letting me down.

clearly, it was your history teacher, and probably your HS counselor, that seems to have let you down, homey.

 

[manifold]

Good boy. Here, have some scooby snacks.

 

[Gungnir]

Are you talking to yourself after re-reading your phenomenally retarded post about christians saving barbarians from themselves? Thank god (HA!) there were no other cultures void of jebus to have come long with their OWN skillsets, eh? I mean, I'd hate to make a funny that both reminded you of Asian culture AND it's lack of jewish ghosts.

Use your brain.

Why would I care about a fictional scenario? If you want that discussion, create a thread on What Ifs; this thread is on What Happened. Why would I care about a different civilization when the thread topic is on Western Europe?

dont be sad. I'd forgive you for that heliocentrism mishap if you can forgive me for evolution.

Why would I not celebrate the Italian Renaissance and Enlightenment thereafter? That is the event which propelled Western European Civilization to the appex and allowed it to conquer the world.

The Renaissance is a point of pride for me.

I guess I should have taped the edges before you liked the page and gave your tongue a papercut.

How does one actually get a paper cut on their tongue by liking a page?

If one believes in memetics.

Culture as passed from person to person, usually hereditarily; with the ability to be selected by societal pressures, natural pressures, and competition. Meme is the closest word to describe such.

I linked to Scriptorium on purpose.

 

[jillian]

Culture as passed from person to person, usually hereditarily; with the ability to be selected by societal pressures, natural pressures, and competition. Meme is the closest word to describe such.

I linked to Scriptorium on purpose.

I know what it is. I also saw the criticism of it as pseudoscience. Again, it appears even if one believes in memes, that christianity would have been redundant.

 

[Shogun]

Why would I care about a fictional scenario? If you want that discussion, create a thread on What Ifs; this thread is on What Happened. Why would I care about a different civilization when the thread topic is on Western Europe?

well, ACTUALLY, the thread is on CIVILIZATION..

How Christianity saved civilization

not, uh, western europe. And, as a matter of fact, christianity has NO bearing on the CIVILIZATION in Asia or S. America. What would you care, indeed.



Why would I not celebrate the Italian Renaissance and Enlightenment thereafter? That is the event which propelled Western European Civilization to the appex and allowed it to conquer the world.
The Renaissance is a point of pride for me.


Me and the ghost of Copernicus is glad to hear that. However, your christian ancestors are probably damning you to hell this very moment. Just think, someday your progeny will make the same statement about Evolution.


How does one actually get a paper cut on their tongue by liking a page?


my bad.. I left out the letter C.. you know, C and is helioCentrism??


(forgive me, that could have been finnier but there are no C's in Blasphemy)

 

[Gungnir]

well, ACTUALLY, the thread is on CIVILIZATION..

How Christianity saved civilization

not, uh, western europe.

Link to which the OP refers thus, since there is no one civilization this thread refers to Western European Civilization.

And, as a matter of fact, christianity has NO bearing on the CIVILIZATION in Asia or S. America. What would you care, indeed.

Especially since those civilizations are not at all related to the Western European Civilization.

Me and the ghost of Copernicus is glad to hear that. However, your christian ancestors are probably damning you to hell this very moment. Just think, someday your progeny will make the same statement about Evolution.

I do not fully understand your implications on Evolution. First, are you refering to Macro Evolution (an Ape suddenly gives birth to a Man) or Micro Evolution (the descendants of an Ape gradually become a Man)? Are you saying that I do not believe in Evolution? Are you saying that my progeny (I am a thanking you for the compliment and well-wish) will not believe in Evolution?

I know what it is. I also saw the criticism of it as pseudoscience. Again, it appears even if one believes in memes, that christianity would have been redundant.

From the Scriptorium link:
By the start of the 13th century, monastic manuscript production declined because secular copyshops had developed to write for the laity. These were closely followed by urban bookshops circa 1250 that before the introduction of printing in the last quarter of the fifteenth century had already virtually replaced the monastery as a source for books.~Wikipedia referencing Christopher De Hamel, Scribes and Illuminators, (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1992), 5.

A pagan Byzantine Emperor could not have offered the Imperator Romanorum.
Which led to this which made these people turn into these people who prospered off of this. By the time this was over they were ready for the Enlightenment.

Or in other words (pay attention Shogun, this is commedy) these people became these people who profitted off of this thing so they could become these people.

 

[AllieBaba]

indeed, if euro thumpers were not arund to make injuns wear shoes then who KNOWS how they would have turned out? I mean, it's not as if the germanic people and natives were around for thousands of years prior to the infestation of a certain dogmatic cult that can justify every dead body in it's wake.

Er, the injuns had their own shoes, shogun.

 

[BrianH]

I don't believe that Christianity saved civilization in a sense. It certainly changed it...but saved it? I doubt it. Unless you're looking at "saved" in the manner of the lifestyle and society that we enjoy today. If Christianity had not taken hold, we'd be living different lifestyles and have different society, and wouldn't even notice if we could have it better or not.

Shog, you think you could ease up on the Christian hating?? This thread isn't whether or not you like or believe Christianity, it's an analyzation of historical events and whether or not the instituion (not the belief) saved Civilization. Just because these prominent holy men were "holy" and Christian doesn't mean they can't achieve anything or have a profound impact.

 

[Shogun]

Link to which the OP refers thus, since there is no one civilization this thread refers to Western European Civilization.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!




oooook, buddy.. whatever you say.

Especially since those civilizations are not at all related to the Western European Civilization.


again, read the thread. The posted article is just as fucking stupid as you are for making such a pompous, ignorant fucking statement.



I do not fully understand your implications on Evolution. First, are you refering to Macro Evolution (an Ape suddenly gives birth to a Man) or Micro Evolution (the descendants of an Ape gradually become a Man)? Are you saying that I do not believe in Evolution? Are you saying that my progeny (I am a thanking you for the compliment and well-wish) will not believe in Evolution?


Im pointing out the clear historic pattern of YOUR side having to swallow its pride and start rationalizing MY side very few hundred years after the growing pains of reason coming to dominate myths. YOU find yourself having to accept evolution deapite your dogmatic ancestors refusing to do so. MUCH LIKE how YOUR kids' kids will do the same for principals that you don't agree with. And, Im not dividing the nomenclature according to how you want to frame the issue; I said Evolution and thats the word your progeny will comprehend beyond YOUR faith based initiative.



From the Scriptorium link:
By the start of the 13th century, monastic manuscript production declined because secular copyshops had developed to write for the laity. These were closely followed by urban bookshops circa 1250 that before the introduction of printing in the last quarter of the fifteenth century had already virtually replaced the monastery as a source for books.~Wikipedia referencing Christopher De Hamel, Scribes and Illuminators, (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1992), 5.


I KNOW. and just THINK what might have been implied had those pesky fucking Asians hadn't developed their own written language!


A pagan Byzantine Emperor could not have offered the Imperator Romanorum.
Which led to this which made these people turn into these people who prospered off of this. By the time this was over they were ready for the Enlightenment.

COULD NOT HAVE, eh?



well, now I know who to run to if I have any questions about an alternate universe...




Or in other words (pay attention Shogun, this is commedy) these people became these people who profitted off of this thing so they could become these people.


Your theory is noted. I suggest you refrain of ever watching the film "birth of a nation".

 

[Shogun]

I don't believe that Christianity saved civilization in a sense. It certainly changed it...but saved it? I doubt it. Unless you're looking at "saved" in the manner of the lifestyle and society that we enjoy today. If Christianity had not taken hold, we'd be living different lifestyles and have different society, and wouldn't even notice if we could have it better or not.

Shog, you think you could ease up on the Christian hating?? This thread isn't whether or not you like or believe Christianity, it's an analyzation of historical events and whether or not the instituion (not the belief) saved Civilization. Just because these prominent holy men were "holy" and Christian doesn't mean they can't achieve anything or have a profound impact.

Perhaps you can parse your first paragraph with your second paragraph, dude. Sure, chriatians have achieved quite a bit.. but, saving civilization is NOT one of them. Entire civilizations on seperate continents belay that fact. Not to mention, if you wanna be technical, the OPPOSITE is true if one were to give south American societies the benefit of the term "civilization".


Hell, how impressed was marco polo with non-western society?

 

[Anguille]

I don't believe that Christianity saved civilization in a sense. It certainly changed it...but saved it? I doubt it. Unless you're looking at "saved" in the manner of the lifestyle and society that we enjoy today. If Christianity had not taken hold, we'd be living different lifestyles and have different society, and wouldn't even notice if we could have it better or not.

Shog, you think you could ease up on the Christian hating?? This thread isn't whether or not you like or believe Christianity, it's an analyzation of historical events and whether or not the instituion (not the belief) saved Civilization. Just because these prominent holy men were "holy" and Christian doesn't mean they can't achieve anything or have a profound impact.

I don't know if the Christians saved civilization but they certainly neglected to save indoor plumbing when the Roman Empire fell.

 

[BrianH]

Perhaps you can parse your first paragraph with your second paragraph, dude. Sure, chriatians have achieved quite a bit.. but, saving civilization is NOT one of them. Entire civilizations on seperate continents belay that fact. Not to mention, if you wanna be technical, the OPPOSITE is true if one were to give south American societies the benefit of the term "civilization".


Hell, how impressed was marco polo with non-western society?

LOL.....I agree. I don't believe they saved civilization--depending on your definition of "saved" and what exact civilization is being talked about. I agree 100%...

 

[BrianH]

I don't know if the Christians saved civilization but they certainly neglected to save indoor plumbing when the Roman Empire fell.

I'm glad I wasn't around for that one....

 

[Shogun]

LOL.....I agree. I don't believe they saved civilization--depending on your definition of "saved" and what exact civilization is being talked about. I agree 100%...

in fact, i've always wondered what the west would have become if the Romans had applied a tad bit more lionfood pressure on their pesky cults...

 

[jillian]

in fact, i've always wondered what the west would have become if the Romans had applied a tad bit more lionfood pressure on their pesky cults...

they'd have been....

jewish

 

[BrianH]

in fact, i've always wondered what the west would have become if the Romans had applied a tad bit more lionfood pressure on their pesky cults...

Yeah I know...Could you imagine if the Byzantine Empire had been "less off" than the Western Empire?

 

[editec]

Civilization was

SAVED?!

Great news!

Did they store it in tupperware or something for the last century?

When, pray tell, do they plan on bringing it back out so that we can see what Western Civilization would actually look like?