How bad could climate become?

[westwall]

Earth Could Become Too Hot for Humans

Earth's current warming trend could bring deadly heat for humans.

A new study that looked at reasonable worst-case scenarios for global warming found that if greenhouse gases continue to be emitted at their current rate, temperatures could become deadly in coming centuries.


"We found that a warming of 12 degrees Fahrenheit (roughly 7 degrees Celsius) would cause some areas of the world to surpass the wet-bulb temperature limit, and a 21-degree warming would put half of the world's population in an uninhabitable environment," Huber said.

"Whole countries would intermittently be subject to severe heat stress requiring large-scale adaptation efforts," Huber added. "One can imagine that such efforts, for example the wider adoption of air conditioning, would cause the power requirements to soar, and the affordability of such approaches is in question for much of the Third World that would bear the brunt of these impacts. In addition, the livestock on which we rely would still be exposed, and it would make any form of outside work hazardous."

The results of the study are detailed in the May 6 issue of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Earth Could Become Too Hot for Humans | LiveScience

This is how bad it could get. THIS IS 8C!

Give it a rest. That is such ridiculous hyperbole it isn't even worth addressing.

 

[Whereisup]

I'll speak to a few points in the very good debate.

The United States is no longer the major contributor of carbon dioxide. A couple of years ago, carbon dioxide emissions by China went surging past the United States. Nations like India, which is developing rapidly, are also putting increasing amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

I don't think it is going to happen, and hope that isn't wishful thinking on my part. However, methane hydrates are thought by many people to amount to tens or hundreds of times all the fossil fuels that have ever been discovered. So if we burn all the fossl fuels, and the methane hydrate amounts are on a high side, then we could enter a runaway greenhouse process and end up like Venus. Remember that water vapor is a greenhouse gas also, so if carbon dioxide raises the temperature a lot, evaporating oceans will raise the temperature even more.

What I think is more likely is that we will have many more major floods per year, many more strong hurricanes per year, and many more strong tornados per year. Crops will be directly destroyed in increasing amounts, and much cropland will be washed away.

There is a theory that this has been a natural process over early part of the last five billion years. The sun was weaker long ago, so there were times when the entire earth froze. Then, since there was nothing to soak up carbon dioxide, carbon dioxide from volcanoes slowly built up until it became sufficient to melt the ice. At that point, some of the carbon dioxide began to be soaked up by chemicals from the rocks which broke down into soil. However, there were more volcanoes long ago, so the carbon dioxide kept rising. Eventually that produced so much flooding and storms that all the soil was washed away exposing bare rocks, which still had chemicals to absorb carbon dioxide. The storms also increased the breakdown of the rock. As this happened, the chemicals which absorbed carbon dioxide keep increasing until they absorbed most of the carbon dioxide. When most of the carbon dioxide was absorbed, the earth cooled and became covered by ice again, until again, very little carbon dioxide was absorbed. Then the entire cycle began again.

Jim

 

[westwall]

I'll speak to a few points in the very good debate.

The United States is no longer the major contributor of carbon dioxide. A couple of years ago, carbon dioxide emissions by China went surging past the United States. Nations like India, which is developing rapidly, are also putting increasing amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

I don't think it is going to happen, and hope that isn't wishful thinking on my part. However, methane hydrates are thought by many people to amount to tens or hundreds of times all the fossil fuels that have ever been discovered. So if we burn all the fossl fuels, and the methane hydrate amounts are on a high side, then we could enter a runaway greenhouse process and end up like Venus. Remember that water vapor is a greenhouse gas also, so if carbon dioxide raises the temperature a lot, evaporating oceans will raise the temperature even more.

What I think is more likely is that we will have many more major floods per year, many more strong hurricanes per year, and many more strong tornados per year. Crops will be directly destroyed in increasing amounts, and much cropland will be washed away.

There is a theory that this has been a natural process over early part of the last five billion years. The sun was weaker long ago, so there were times when the entire earth froze. Then, since there was nothing to soak up carbon dioxide, carbon dioxide from volcanoes slowly built up until it became sufficient to melt the ice. At that point, some of the carbon dioxide began to be soaked up by chemicals from the rocks which broke down into soil. However, there were more volcanoes long ago, so the carbon dioxide kept rising. Eventually that produced so much flooding and storms that all the soil was washed away exposing bare rocks, which still had chemicals to absorb carbon dioxide. The storms also increased the breakdown of the rock. As this happened, the chemicals which absorbed carbon dioxide keep increasing until they absorbed most of the carbon dioxide. When most of the carbon dioxide was absorbed, the earth cooled and became covered by ice again, until again, very little carbon dioxide was absorbed. Then the entire cycle began again.

Jim

Jim,

Have you ever noticed how after the end of the world didn't occur these guys trot out some new "terrible" thing to try and frighten the savages? In the 1970's it was a combination of a new impending ice age and the famous "population bomb" that was going to witness BILLIONS of people killed by the late 1980's.

Whoops....didn't happen.

Then, starting in the early to mid 1980's (after it was pretty obvious that the world was warming up again) the threat of global warming became a concern. Ever more urgent calls were made to control mans emissions and control the population (which is the REAL goal of all of this nonsense), and of course there were a few forward thinkers like Ken Lay who figured out how to make a buck on the hysteria.

ENRON was a major player in the Kyoto protocols. You remember who they were don't you? After the revelations of how that company was run I would question ANYTHING they were involved in. And of course they tapped good old Gore and told him how he too could make a whooooole bunch of money at the same time.

Now we come to the present day....global warming....well it isn't anymore so they have to come up with some new "thing" to frighten the savages into giving up their rights and of course their money. That new thing is ocean acidification (which through empirical testing has been shown to be a non threat) and of course the terrifying methane clathrates. Ohh, they sound nasty don't they?

Of course we know that they actually began outgassing in the Arctic during the Holocene Thermal Maximum of 8,000 years ago........and they've been venting ever since. Just imagine...8,000 years of all that methane! It makes the blood curdle doesn't it?

Be that as it may...after 8,000 YEARS, the temps still do what they have always done...rise and fall in multi century, and multi millennial cycles interspersed by volcanic induced rapid cooling pulses.

We have a pretty good handle on the recent past (9,000 years give or take) because the paleoclimate record is fresher and, man began writing down his his history and all the nasty things that have happened to him. Because of those records we know of the following major warming and cooling periods......The Younger Dryas period of cooling (12,800-11,500 bp) the first Holocene Warming (11,600-8,500bp). The Egyptian Cooling (8,500-8,000bp). The Holocene Warming b (8,000-5,600bp). The Akkadian Cooling (5,600-3,500AD). The Minoan Warming (3,500-3,200bp). The Bronze Age Cooling (3,200-2,500bp). The Roman Warming (500BC-535AD). The Dark Ages, also called the 6th Century Climate Catastrophe (535-900AD). The Medieval Warming (900AD-1300 AD). The Little Ice Age (1300AD-1850AD).

I hope you noticed how that all came and went no matter what the CO2 or methane levels were.....The one thing that HAS correlated to near 100% is solar output with the global temps. As any good scientist knows "correlation does not equal causation" but the AGW supporters don't even have correlation on their side anymore. The last 15 years has seen a prodigious rise in atmospheric CO2 all while global temperatures have remained flat.

Of course with all of the record cold winters some might be tempted to say that the world is cooling...but we will have to wait for further research to confirm that.

 

[percysunshine]

I keep tellin y'all....we're all gonna die.....and it isn't going to be my lawn mowers fault.


Massive solar flare narrowly misses Earth, EMP disaster barely avoided | WashingtonExaminer.com

"Basically this is a Russian roulette thing," added Pry. "We narrowly escape from a Carrington-class disaster."

 

[Wroberson]

I prefer the cooling end of the spectrum. I can always put on another layer of clothing.

How bad can the climate become?

Have you ever been in county lock up on a warrant for someone else and face to face with 7 dudes in the bathroom where the biggest toughest guy takes the group side because you didn't give him your chocolate cream puff on Thanksgiving after spending 3 weeks giving away all your food because it's prison food?

And while you're in the detention center the guards have to move you because you walked out of the bathroom alive and it was suddenly your cell block and someone's going to put a price on your head sooner rather than later. Then they move you to a workers block where everyone seems to have a better disposition because they're getting paid a few dollars a day for work done around the jailhouse. Yet, for some reason you've been chosen to change the diaper of a detainee who only has 40% of his skull left due to a baton to the head and by the looks of it, you could pretty much use the guy's noggin to eat a bowl of prison cereal.

The climate can become worse than that...

 

[Whereisup]

Global temperature hasn't been flat during the last 15 years. It fluctuates, but on an upward trend, and every couple of years we have the hottest average temperature ever recorded.

Outgasing isn't the same as it was before. Scientists are now detecting an increase in methane in the air in the arctic. In addition, methane releases are being seen. In Siberia, lakes are fizzing like soda pop, which wasn't the case even a couple of decades ago. There are reported plumes of methane bubbles rising from the sea bottom in some areas of the arctic, which is something new.

It doesn't mean that for Enron to have been at the Kyoto negotiations. Any major company and group which wanted to could be there. What is documented is that the energy companies have consistently tried to block anything that would decrease fossil fuel burning.

The energy companies are opponents of Gore, not in league with him.

Jim

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Global temperature hasn't been flat during the last 15 years. It fluctuates, but on an upward trend, and every couple of years we have the hottest average temperature ever recorded.

Outgasing isn't the same as it was before. Scientists are now detecting an increase in methane in the air in the arctic. In addition, methane releases are being seen. In Siberia, lakes are fizzing like soda pop, which wasn't the case even a couple of decades ago. There are reported plumes of methane bubbles rising from the sea bottom in some areas of the arctic, which is something new.

It doesn't mean that for Enron to have been at the Kyoto negotiations. Any major company and group which wanted to could be there. What is documented is that the energy companies have consistently tried to block anything that would decrease fossil fuel burning.

The energy companies are opponents of Gore, not in league with him.

Jim

Let 100 nuke plants bloom.

 

[Defiant1]

Global temperature hasn't been flat during the last 15 years. It fluctuates, but on an upward trend, and every couple of years we have the hottest average temperature ever recorded.

Outgasing isn't the same as it was before. Scientists are now detecting an increase in methane in the air in the arctic. In addition, methane releases are being seen. In Siberia, lakes are fizzing like soda pop, which wasn't the case even a couple of decades ago. There are reported plumes of methane bubbles rising from the sea bottom in some areas of the arctic, which is something new.

It doesn't mean that for Enron to have been at the Kyoto negotiations. Any major company and group which wanted to could be there. What is documented is that the energy companies have consistently tried to block anything that would decrease fossil fuel burning.

The energy companies are opponents of Gore, not in league with him.

Jim

Are you afraid of dying?

Even if the projections were to happen, it wouldn't be in your lifetime.

 

[PredFan]

Imagine temperature like death valley with 60f dew points over a large part of the southern United states and southern Europe for weeks during the summer.

That's 8c of global warming. Entire parts of the world would become unlivable.

Been pretty pleasant here in Florida most of the summer so far.

Dumbass.

 

[PredFan]

What i get from Obama and his ilk is that the US is the cause of all this and we need to
fix it.

And this is how you know that AGW is a scam:

What's the cure for Global Warming?

Socialism.

It's a scam folks, always has been always will be.

 

[PredFan]

Imagine 115f with 65f dewpoints in New York?
Imagine 130f+ in Dallas with 55f dewpoints
Imagine Italy, Spain and a larger part of the globe NOT just death valley being a living hell. That's 8-12c of warming.

That's pretty bad.

Good thing it won't happen.

 

[PredFan]

Imagine a Chicago 1995 heat wave occurring every year? But with temperatures of 110f!

2-3 thousand people dying.

That's 8+ more of warming by 2100.

Yeah that would suck. Glad it isn't going to happen.

 

[PredFan]

Fact:

A rise in CO2 follows a rise in temperature, not the other way around.

When a gas increases it's temperature it can hold more elements in it such as oxygen, CO2 water vapor etc.

 

[mamooth]

Fact:
A rise in CO2 follows a rise in temperature, not the other way around.

Fact: You fail hard at logic, making the stupid assumption that the present must act like the past, even if conditions are wildly different now.

But then, we've learned not to expect common sense from any denialist, as they can only parrot the dogma of their fringe political cult. Once you see someone ranting about the socialist menace, you know 100% that you're dealing with a cultist.

When a gas increases it's temperature it can hold more elements in it such as oxygen, CO2 water vapor etc.

Um ... you think oxygen and CO2 levels go up with temp? Wow.

 

[waltky]

Yea, Uncle Ferd gets hot under the collar when temps go up...

Climate Change Linked to Human Violence
August 2nd, 2013 > As global temperatures rise, so do our levels of hostility and violence, according to a new study.

Scientists from the University of California, Berkeley and Princeton University discovered a strong link between shifts in climate to human violence around the world. The study found that even minor climate deviations, such as slight changes in normal temperature and rainfall, can greatly increase the risk of conflict. The link between climate variations and violent behavior was noted on a small scale—in one-on-one crimes like assault, murder or domestic abuse—as well as on a much grander scale involving riots or civil war.

Unlike previous similar studies, this project combined data and evidence from a wider number of fields such as economics, political science, geography, psychology and archeology, according to Professor Edward Miguel from the University of California Berkeley. Climate shifts researchers explored included temperature as well as rainfall—from very low rainfall and drought conditions to extreme amounts of rainfall. The scientists say their findings could have critical implications for understanding the impact of future climate change on human societies. Many global climate models project temperature increases of at least 2 degrees Celsius over the next half century.

The researchers compared extensive data, spanning from ancient times until today. Collecting more material than any prior study, the researchers were able to show that the Earth’s climate plays a more influential role in human affairs than previously thought. Among the historical correlations researchers found was the case of the advanced Mayan civilization which was established around 2000 BC in what is now Mexico and Central America. Some scholars say this Mesoamerican civilization peaked between the years 250 to 900 AD, when it mysteriously collapsed.

Scientists and historians, including those involved in this study, theorize that climate may have had a lot to do with the Mayan decline and failure. “The Mayan civilization, the Mayan empire…during the 9th century AD, experienced an unprecedented century of warm, dry weather,” said Miguel. “In fact, they had three mega-droughts during that century and at the end of the third mega-drought, that’s the time at which that civilization collapsed into civil war never to recover its previous grandeur.”

MORE

See also:

Researchers say hot weather triggers more violence
Sat, Aug 03, 2013 - If the heat makes you cranky, take heart: you’re not alone, according to a study out on Thursday in the US journal Science that links rising tempers to hot temperatures.

The link could have worrying implications as the Earth’s climate warms, researchers at the University of California at Berkeley and Princeton University said. While making predictions about the future is always iffy, lead author Solomon Hsiang said the current trend is clear: Hotter weather makes people more violent. Hsiang and his fellow researchers conducted a meta-analysis of 60 studies across a range of disciplines, including archeology, climatology, political science and economics. One study, for instance, showed that, during the hotter and drier periods of the El Nino southern oscillation, “the probability of any country in the tropics starting a new civil war doubles.”

Other studies showed the incidence of interpersonal conflicts — from murder to rape to domestic violence and other types of assault — goes up when it gets hot. “We were surprised by both the consistency and the strength” of the link, Hsiang said, explaining it was evident no matter what timeframe was being examined, whether a short heat wave, a years-long drought or a cycle over centuries. “We do think the overall size of the effects is sufficiently large that we want to take them seriously and seriously consider whether or not our actions today are going to influence the level of violence in our children’s world tomorrow,” Hsiang added. To rule out other factors for the rise in violence, the authors used a statistical analysis that compared single geographic locations to themselves over time — so that the political, cultural and geographic histories were internally consistent.

They also tried to compare levels of violence where the climatic factors were very localized, to see how violence levels compared nearby where the weather stayed cooler. In all cases, “the collected evidence shows that humans across the globe have proven poorly equipped to deal with exposure to hotter temperatures,” co-lead author Marshall Burke said in a statement. What was less clear was why, with researchers citing several theories and noting that more than one could play a role. In times of drought or when harvests fail, economic factors might push groups to take up arms.

High unemployment tends to leave a large pool of frustrated, bored young people in cities — fertile recruiting ground for an army. And the heat also seems to have a physiological effect that drives people to violent impulses, one that can be observed after just a few hours of exposure. Hsiang compared the trend to the increase of car accidents on a rainy day — it does not mean any one accident happened solely because it rained. Nor does it mean accidents only happen when it rains. “Driver error ultimately causes accidents, but rain can make it much more likely,” he said in the statement. “Similarly, violent conflicts might occur for a variety of reasons that simply become more likely when climatic conditions deteriorate.”

Researchers say hot weather triggers more violence - Taipei Times

 

[Politico]

Not bad for you at all. You will be long since be dead.

 

[Old Rocks]

How bad?

Let's see. The Sahara Desert used to be a wooded savannah. The Ice Age killed most of life on earth. The Medieval Warm Period got pretty warm, it enabled exploration to expand. Agriculture started on previously ice bound areas.

None of that had anything to do with polluting the atmosphere and activities of mankind. So, whatever the climate does, it has nothing to do with us.

No, the ice age did not kill most of the life on earth. In fact, the last period of extinction, not counting the ongoing extinction event, took place when there was a very rapid climate change, the Younger Dryas, warm to cold, 12.9 thousand years ago, and cold to warm, 11.6 thousand years ago.

What Caused the Younger Dryas Cold Event?

This was especially true on the North American continent. We lost all of the mammoths and mastodons, in North America, horses, camels, and a couple of specie of bison.

As for your other rather idiotic arguement, since nobody was killed by a gun prior to 500 AD, guns cannot kill you.

 

[Old Rocks]

Fact:

A rise in CO2 follows a rise in temperature, not the other way around.

When a gas increases it's temperature it can hold more elements in it such as oxygen, CO2 water vapor etc.

That is what happens when the levels of CO2 are driven by the Milankovic Cycles. That is not what is happening now. It is the temperature that is lagging the levels of CO2 at present.

As for your second statement, it is true only for water. CO2 and O2 levels are dependent on factors other than temperature.

 

[editec]

There is no way to predict for sure, but consider the analogy of heating a pot of water.

At first, there is only a small gentle movement of the water in the pot. However, as the water is heated, the water moves faster and faster.

Similarly, as the atmosphere heats up, air masses will on average move faster. That will produce greater shifts between cold and hot, wet and dry. There will be more flooding, more tornadoes, more hurricanes.

The expense of all that damage caused by the weather will be much greater than the cost would be if we quickly shifted to mostly wind and solar power.

Jim

Jim I do not think even the experts have a clue what might happen over time.

EVen minor changes in something like an ocean current have caused this plant to become TOTALLY icebound for thousands of years.

Climate is where the CHAOS effect makes any kind of long range prediction completely impossible.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

AGW Cult is still Cult