Hope for the Western USA

[_dmp_]

wow...yes, I HATE Oil companies...

SEATTLE - Ten Democratic Governors, including Washington State's Gary Locke, are asking President Bush to launch an immediate investigation into rising gasoline prices, particularly on the West Coast.

Also Wednesday, Oregon Senator Ron Wyden called for a probe by the Federal trade Commission.

Gas prices in the Puget Sound area start at about $1.80 a gallon, but in many cases are pushing $2.00 for unleaded.

Tim Hamilton, an industry watchdog for independent gasoline dealers, told KOMO 4 News: "It's not the Sierra Club, it's not our taxes, it's not OPEC. It's simply the marketing schemes and shorting the energy needs of the West that's causing them (the gas companies) to be able to get this money."

Oil companies tend to dismiss Tim Hamilton and his watchdog group, but there's a twist. Someone at Shell disobeyed company orders and e-mailed Hamilton copies of confidential financial records.

They detail the profit margins for refineries. In Texas, the profit is about $7.50 a barrel. In our state, the profit is twice as high. Hamilton says that amounts to about thirty cents a gallon increase profit for every 42-gallon barrel.

Shell records show even higher profits in California. The comment of one Shell official written on the leaked document was: "Wow."

Truckers like Jim Smith of Massachusetts had a different reaction: "You can go from one state to the next and it's 40-to-50 cents more. How can that be? It's just unacceptable. It's crazy."

Hamilton says bad news is we in the West are the ones being clobbered. He says the two candidates for president can't ignore what's happening: "Pick up the phone and call these guys and say stop doing this. They are doing what Enron and the rest of them did to create an artificial shortage."

Shell confirms Hamilton did get company records. They admit profits are good now. But they point out profits rise and fall and this is just a one-time snapshot not a pattern. The company insists the oil shortage and gas shortfall on the West Coast is real and prices reflect supply and demand.

But Hamilton says without federal intervention prices, by this summer, in Washington and Oregon are likely to parallel California about $2.25 a gallon for unleaded.

 

[NewGuy]

Well, lets face it, they are entitled to make a profit based on supply and demand. The more fuel efficient cars come out, guess what happens to prices?

Having a 35% tax, though, doesn't help. At $2.00 a gallon, the price SHOULD be $1.30

THAT I can live with.

-I have 3 vehicles that get LESS than 12 mpg each.

-But they have POWER

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Well, lets face it, they are entitled to make a profit based on supply and demand. The more fuel efficient cars come out, guess what happens to prices?

Having a 35% tax, though, doesn't help. At $2.00 a gallon, the price SHOULD be $1.30

THAT I can live with.

-I have 3 vehicles that get LESS than 12 mpg each.

-But they have POWER

uh - did you read the article?

that's not simple 'supply and demand'.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dmp
uh - did you read the article?

that's not simple 'supply and demand'.

Well, I just RE-READ it and it still seemed ok to me.

Remember, I don't like paying more than I have to either, but when you own a business, you have a right to charge what you want to.

Then again, when you have a monopoly going, -oh wait, THAT is illegal.

They never DO address the issues.

I guess we need to get the govt. out of there and let the competition take over. If prices and quality are equal across the board, get 'em for price setting. Otherwise, what can they do when regulated by govt.?

 

[_dmp_]

okay -

is it right for a business to charge WHITE people one price, and black people another?

That's akin to what the oil companies are doing. For NO reason, other than they have motorists by the balls, they are OVER-CHARGING people in the west.


see?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dmp
okay -

is it right for a business to charge WHITE people one price, and black people another?

That's akin to what the oil companies are doing. For NO reason, other than they have motorists by the balls, they are OVER-CHARGING people in the west.


see?

Drive a steam engine then.
It is called "whatever the market will bear". I am victim to the system as well.

-Until I take myself OUT of the system.

Given, most of us need cars to survive, but that is a learned dependency. If we used horses, steam cars, or some other such thing, gas would not be a necessity.

The point is that just because we see someone else pays less based on economy, that doesn't mean that we should scream that all should pay one price. Last I checked, that was akin to socialism. California has more money floating around which justifies the higher price. As I said, the cars make the consumption less as well therefore driving the price up. It is all really simple.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy

-Until I take myself OUT of the system.

Are you gonna shack up in the woods "unibomber style"?

 

[5stringJeff]

Well, I am no fan of oil companies per se, but gasoline taxes in WA are insanely high. How about lowering the gas tax for some price relief?
How about relaxing environmental restrictions to make the cost of refining gasoline cheaper, thereby reducing gasoline prices?
How about driving more fuel efficient cars? Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I will never advocate the use of government regulation to force people to drive cars they don't want to drive. But, from a purely economical standpoint, it is cheaper to drive a Kia (which I drive) than a Ford Excursion.
How about ensuring that you go to the gas station with the cheapest prices, instead of habitually hitting the same station, whose prices may be higher than others in the area?
Or, if all else fails, go buy a bunch of stock in ChevronTexaco, MobilExxon, Shell, etc., and profit off of high gas prices in the way of dividends! ChevronTexaco yiels 3.22%, and Royal Dutch yields 4%.

 

[_dmp_]

But, from a purely economical standpoint, it is cheaper to drive a Kia (which I drive) than a Ford Excursion.

Not always...because you drive alone it is. If you had 20 people to haul, I bet it'd be more effiecient in an Excursion.

This is about price gouging...not taxes nor supply and demand. It's about Oil companies banding together to drive up prices for NO OTHER REASON than 'they can'. Should Power companies, Utilities charge those people EAST of Meridian Avenue/street/whatever, 20% more simply because the people have no choice but to pay it?

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Drive a steam engine then.
It is called "whatever the market will bear". I am victim to the system as well.

-Until I take myself OUT of the system.

Given, most of us need cars to survive, but that is a learned dependency. If we used horses, steam cars, or some other such thing, gas would not be a necessity.

The point is that just because we see someone else pays less based on economy, that doesn't mean that we should scream that all should pay one price. Last I checked, that was akin to socialism. California has more money floating around which justifies the higher price. As I said, the cars make the consumption less as well therefore driving the price up. It is all really simple.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Are you gonna shack up in the woods "unibomber style"?

1. Do you think that there is only THAT way of living outside of a fuel based lifestyle?

2. Since people all over the US live in cabins and such WITHOUT much modern convenience, what makes you think it is "unibomber" style?

Most people who live in the country live in small hunter shacks or small houses. The rare ones live in large "log cabins" or thousand acre ranches.

That being said, I have lived outside of MOST systems most of my life. Fuel is next on my list to wipe out a dependency on. Considering I live in Sacramento, I think that sums up that it isn't a way of LIVING that does it so much as a way of thinking and being independent.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by dmp
Not always...because you drive alone it is. If you had 20 people to haul, I bet it'd be more effiecient in an Excursion.

This is about price gouging...not taxes nor supply and demand. It's about Oil companies banding together to drive up prices for NO OTHER REASON than 'they can'. Should Power companies, Utilities charge those people EAST of Meridian Avenue/street/whatever, 20% more simply because the people have no choice but to pay it?

I'm not saying that oil companies are acting altruistically. If they are price gouging, as you say, then I suggest finding ways to use fewer oil products, as much as is feasible. Or take my suggestions and look into buying some stock. In fact, if you bought $30K worth of ChevronTexaco, the dividends would pay for aobut $1,000 in gas each year - which is about my gasoline bill.

 

[NewGuy]

If you wanted to get technical, starting a home based business and writing off vehicle expenses even if you didn't make a profit, you would make an average of 3k a year difference on your taxes which would be HIGHER than you generally pay for gas.

Pick your path, there are PLENTY of ways to beat that game.

 

[_dmp_]

We need Government regulations protecting us. I think I'll be a democrat - the market cannot police itself. If you honestly believe there is nothing shady going on - not talking about honest free-market principles; but underhanded price controling.

 

[5stringJeff]

I don't agree with oligrachial price controls either. IMO, that is one of the necessary functions of government - to keep the free market on a free, level playing field. If they are really sticking it to the West Coast and breaking the law, then hammer them, I say.

 

[_dmp_]

That's what I want to hear - prior to your latest reply, it seemed as though you were giving the Oil companies the 'benefit of the doubt' - a luxury I'd ill-afford to 'Big Business'.

 

[Said1]

Have you ever noticed the price goes up before a long week end - mainly in the sumnmer? Whats with that?

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by Said1
Have you ever noticed the price goes up before a long week end - mainly in the sumnmer? Whats with that?

Oil companies do that because they know more ppl will want gas.

It's immoral, imo.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by dmp
Oil companies do that because they know more ppl will want gas.

It's immoral, imo.

I don't drive, but I still agree 100%.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by dmp
Oil companies do that because they know more ppl will want gas.

It's immoral, imo.

Your starting to talk like a commie.