CDZ Honest Question, does providing help to drug addicts make them worse?

[iamwhatiseem]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Help makes them worse.

 

[Syriusly]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Considering the huge opiate addiction we have in the United States- what do you think is the right thing to do?
a) Encourage them to overdoes and die?
b) Encourage them to get into treatment and try to manage to cope without drugs?
c) Jail them and treat them as criminals

 

[Syriusly]

I have never been addicted to any drug. But we have all known people addicted to cigarettes- and how hard it is for most people to kick them. As bad as cigarettes are, they don't have the consequences of addiction to alcohol and opiates, and coke and meth.

Addicts rarely manage to kick drugs the first time. Usually it takes several. But treatment is cheaper and at least as effective as jailing them.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I honestly wonder that.
This medic they were highliting - she has been a medic for 20 years. When she started there was a drug overdoes maybe once a month or less...today they treat 7-8 EVERYDAY.
Despite numerous programs, shelters, "war on drugs" more treatment centers...etc. etc. - the problem isn't getting better, it is getting exponentially worse.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Considering the huge opiate addiction we have in the United States- what do you think is the right thing to do?
a) Encourage them to overdoes and die?
b) Encourage them to get into treatment and try to manage to cope without drugs?
c) Jail them and treat them as criminals

This isn't about what I think. I am not proposing I have an answer.

 

[OldLady]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Pretty much the only times I've seen drug addicts be successful is when it was THEIR choice to quit. Even then it doesn't always work. It's really really hard, ya know.
Drug addicts who have been arrested and are being forced to seek rehab or go to jail, or are about to lose their kids because of neglect, don't usually make it because ultimately it is not their choice. It can, though, and if you have ever had a close friend or relative that you knew well and watched deteriorate due to drug addiction, you would understand why some people will try and try again to support an addict in recovery.
It is physically painful. It is impossible to feel even every day cheer, let alone happiness. There is such a craving for the high that it blocks out everything else in the mind. Day by day, an addict has to battle that and then find a reason to live again. There is usually a great big fucking mess behind them that needs to be cleaned up.
It's not easy.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Pretty much the only times I've seen drug addicts be successful is when it was THEIR choice to quit. Even then it doesn't always work. It's really really hard, ya know.
Drug addicts who have been arrested and are being forced to seek rehab or go to jail, or are about to lose their kids because of neglect, don't usually make it because ultimately it is not their choice. It can, though, and if you have ever had a close friend or relative that you knew well and watched deteriorate due to drug addiction, you would understand why some people will try and try again to support an addict in recovery.
It is physically painful. It is impossible to feel even every day cheer, let alone happiness. There is such a craving for the high that it blocks out everything else in the mind. Day by day, an addict has to battle that and then find a reason to live again. There is usually a great big fucking mess behind them that needs to be cleaned up.
It's not easy.

But why is the problem getting so much worse?
Is it because of the lack of opportunity of gainful employment for so many? Do they give up? It is impossible to ignore that the opium epidemic closely lines up with the level of unemployment in that area.
Again, I don't proclaim to have a solution...but I do honestly question the success of any system that treats them like little children.
One thing you said is dead on...they have to want to get better THEMSELVES. That any other attempts made by anyone else is highly unlikely to work...kind of makes my point.

 

[Asclepias]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Depends on what go round they are on. You fuck up in rehab then you are pretty much untrustworthy until you make the decision to stop and stick to it.

 

[OldLady]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Considering the huge opiate addiction we have in the United States- what do you think is the right thing to do?
a) Encourage them to overdoes and die?
b) Encourage them to get into treatment and try to manage to cope without drugs?
c) Jail them and treat them as criminals

We are forgetting one of the biggest steps -- early education to kids that actually shows them what is up. Addiction can run in families and a lot of kids have parents abusing alcohol or drugs, so you'd think they'd know better, but they get into it, too. Kids think they're immune to bad outcomes. They snort oxys for "fun" and try heroin when the dealer offers it and pretty soon they're hooked. I know a lot of addicts. I know a few who've gotten clean. I wish they'd share their stories with youngsters.
We need a huge propaganda campaign. Other things for kids to do. It's so endemic in rural areas because kids don't have the options to be involved in more positive things. That and the poverty thing. Self-medicating is always a factor.

 

[irosie91]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Considering the huge opiate addiction we have in the United States- what do you think is the right thing to do?
a) Encourage them to overdoes and die?
b) Encourage them to get into treatment and try to manage to cope without drugs?
c) Jail them and treat them as criminals

This isn't about what I think. I am not proposing I have an answer.

I am completely stumped-----not matter how it is done ----IT IS A MONEY PIT-----considering
the fact that we have SON OF SCOTTISH LADY in the White House-----I predict that somehow
the budget will get a deep cut

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There is a documentary series on Netflix called "Herion (e)"...I watched a good part of the first episode and watched an entire system of people and programs dedicated solely for drug addicts. And every single person treated them like they were helpless little children. I watched a judge give extraordinary light sentences to repeat offenders, one guy had overdosed twice in the same week...and several times before - but, like before, he was treated and released and they were actually congratulating him for saying he was going to rehab. (which he previously flunked).
People bringing them free food, and providing shelter...
Honest question...is this helping or supporting their habit??

Considering the huge opiate addiction we have in the United States- what do you think is the right thing to do?
a) Encourage them to overdoes and die?
b) Encourage them to get into treatment and try to manage to cope without drugs?
c) Jail them and treat them as criminals

We are forgetting one of the biggest steps -- early education to kids that actually shows them what is up. Addiction can run in families and a lot of kids have parents abusing alcohol or drugs, so you'd think they'd know better, but they get into it, too. Kids think they're immune to bad outcomes. They snort oxys for "fun" and try heroin when the dealer offers it and pretty soon they're hooked. I know a lot of addicts. I know a few who've gotten clean. I wish they'd share their stories with youngsters.
We need a huge propaganda campaign. Other things for kids to do. It's so endemic in rural areas because kids don't have the options to be involved in more positive things. That and the poverty thing. Self-medicating is always a factor.

That makes sense to me.

 

[MarathonMike]

I don't think helping them makes them worse. The addiction is a symptom of a bigger problem with the addict. Treatment helps them beat the physical side of the addiction but unless the mind changes, they are almost sure to relapse. It's a lot harder to get into someone's noodle and turn that around.

 

[Syriusly]

I honestly wonder that.
This medic they were highliting - she has been a medic for 20 years. When she started there was a drug overdoes maybe once a month or less...today they treat 7-8 EVERYDAY.
Despite numerous programs, shelters, "war on drugs" more treatment centers...etc. etc. - the problem isn't getting better, it is getting exponentially worse.

Inside a Killer Drug Epidemic: A Look at America’s Opioid Crisis

The problem is not with ineffective programs- it is with the issue of addiction. Read up on the Opioid crisis- on why it is happening in America.

Speaking to your various issues- and not being an expert- but from what i have read:
a) Numerous programs- drug treatment programs are always in demand- there are just more new addicts than programs.
b) shelters- shelters generally are not designed to help addicts- most shelters are just for warehousing people.
c) 'war on drugs' has been a failure- just like Prohibition. Prohibition actually created more addicts because it was easier to get illegal hard alcohol than illegal beer and wine- and people binged and became addicted.
d) 'getting exponentially worse'- this is specifically the opioid crisis- not exponentially more alcohol addicts, not exponentially more coke addicts, not exponentially more meth addicts(that was yesterday's crisis).

Look into the factors regarding the current drug crisis- it is destroying families and is very tragic.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The main reason that we are having such a problem with heroin addicts is because the doctors over prescribe opiates, which leads to people getting addicted and when they are cut off from their prescription drugs, they turn to heroin because it's basically the same thing.

Interesting thing happened when CO legalized marijuana for recreational use, their opiate overdose rate dropped 25 percent the first year, and has continued to decline since. I've talked with many veterans who live up there, and they said when they came back from the war in the ME, they had things wrong with them and the VA had them on anywhere from 5 to 15 pills PER DAY. When marijuana was made legal, many of them started smoking or using THC products, and they managed to get down to only one or two pills a day. They got healthier too, because they didn't have to take as many drugs.

And, in VT, there is an addiction treatment center that treats heroin addicts. Now, when people are getting off of heroin, they go through withdrawl, and the symptoms are nausea, jittery nerves, joint pain, and loss of appetite. They decided to use marijuana to help with the withdrawl symptoms (cannabis is not physically addictive), because a good Indica will help with all those problems.

Then, when they finally get through kicking heroin, if they choose, they can keep smoking or quit. It's not physically addictive. And, I don't know if you guys have any idea of recovery rates for heroin addicts (it's single digits normally), but they have had a SIXTY PERCENT SUCCESS RATE for people who had been with the program for a year.

Wanna help cut down on the heroin use? Legalize marijuana.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The main reason that we are having such a problem with heroin addicts is because the doctors over prescribe opiates, which leads to people getting addicted and when they are cut off from their prescription drugs, they turn to heroin because it's basically the same thing.

Interesting thing happened when CO legalized marijuana for recreational use, their opiate overdose rate dropped 25 percent the first year, and has continued to decline since. I've talked with many veterans who live up there, and they said when they came back from the war in the ME, they had things wrong with them and the VA had them on anywhere from 5 to 15 pills PER DAY. When marijuana was made legal, many of them started smoking or using THC products, and they managed to get down to only one or two pills a day. They got healthier too, because they didn't have to take as many drugs.

And, in VT, there is an addiction treatment center that treats heroin addicts. Now, when people are getting off of heroin, they go through withdrawl, and the symptoms are nausea, jittery nerves, joint pain, and loss of appetite. They decided to use marijuana to help with the withdrawl symptoms (cannabis is not physically addictive), because a good Indica will help with all those problems.

Then, when they finally get through kicking heroin, if they choose, they can keep smoking or quit. It's not physically addictive. And, I don't know if you guys have any idea of recovery rates for heroin addicts (it's single digits normally), but they have had a SIXTY PERCENT SUCCESS RATE for people who had been with the program for a year.

Wanna help cut down on the heroin use? Legalize marijuana.

I don't have an issue with regulated/legalized marijuana. It has always seemed rather ridiculous to me that alcohol is legal but a much less damaging/potent drug is not.
I haven't smoked it in many years, and probably never will, legal or not. I love my craft beer. (I make my own also)
But, to your point, if marijuana has provably shown verifiable benefit in treating addiction to much more serious drugs - then all the more reason to legalize it.
And I am quite conservative.

 

[Rambunctious]

Honest Question, does providing help to drug addicts make them worse?

I would say there is a 50 - 50 shot that providing help to them will actually help them with their addiction. Family's are said to have the most positive effect with their addicted siblings, and children but those odds are not all that good either.

People have to help themselves, they have hit rock bottom, and if the bottom does not kill them they may decide to make a change for good.

My good friend was a two pack a day smoker. I could smell his cigarette smoke from three doors down. We never went to their home for dinner because of his smoking. But we love him. We tried everything to convince him to stop.

Then one night we saw an Ambulance pull in front of his home. He had a heart attack, age 46, not over weight at all.

He decided that was it and he quit cold turkey. It's now been 5 years and he is still smoke free but it took a near death experience to wake him up.

 

[Toronado3800]

Good topic.

If we are anything like a good christian nation we have to have the help there ready for them.

We CAN jail them to break the physical addiction. It is expensive and it puts them around people with worse problems. Perhaps drug abuser only prisons or half way houses?

Far as pot goes, it is less bad than most other drugs and I firmly believe if alcohol is legal pot should be legal. Like alcohol it is an addictive crutch. I know too many lifers for each. Pot addiction affects their job choices and sometimes drives soccer moms to go meet underworld figures. Legalizing pot fixes some of those problems. Doesn't make it less addictive though and personally I don't want to legalize it until the punishments for driving drunk or stoned are worse.

 

[Picaro]

Read some stories a few weeks ago about drug dealers racing to set up shop near rehab centers, because they're a market magnet for them. The stories were about Florida but it probably applies everywhere else, too.

 

[Picaro]

Legalizing drugs of any kind only creates a bigger problem, and exposes more and more kids to them. Forget the idiot hippie 'solutions', they've gone nowhere but backwards.