Hiding “Avian Mortality”: Where ‘Green’ is Red (Part I: Altamont Pass)

[daveman]

more animals die by planes, trains, semi-trucks and auto's and hunters, does that bother you also? Or is this just a, I hate green energy rant,,,again?

"planes, trains, semi-trucks and auto's and hunters" don't claim to be saving the planet, do they?

Not saving the planet, just producing energy with a much lower cost to the environment.

So all the dead wildlife is just ...collateral damage?

 

[mamooth]

70 Golden eagles killed over a period of about 12 years at one wind farm.. And you believe my statement is false and just fantasy...

I believe your statement is a flagrant cherrypick, crossing the line into deliberate dishonesty. You and Dave are pretending Altamonte represents all wind farms, which is either extremely stupid or extremely dishonest. So you two should explain whether it's stupidity or dishonesty driving your actions there. I'd guess it's a combination of both.

Look, if you can't address what we actually say, just admit it. Constantly creating those strawmen to attack just make you look worse.

Especially when you project these psychotic guilt episodes like that post above...

Stuff it, ya whiny little hypocrite. You feel free to fling out your fuktard conspiracies about us, then blubber like a little bitch when I toss a bit back. They only thing wrong with my crazy conspiracy about you sucking bird blood was that it didn't go far enough. I'd need to amp the crazy up way, way more in order to match your whackaloon conspiracies.

 

[mamooth]

So all the dead wildlife is just ...collateral damage?

Why are you even pretending to care? You have to know that charade isn't fooling anyone. After all, you'd sacrifice the whole planet for the glory of your political cult. A few birds is nothing compared to that. You just lie about caring in these selective cases so that you have an excuse to hate liberals.

 

[Abraham3]

So all the dead wildlife is just ...collateral damage?

Are you worried that you won't get a chance to kill it first?

 

[daveman]

So all the dead wildlife is just ...collateral damage?

Why are you even pretending to care? You have to know that charade isn't fooling anyone. After all, you'd sacrifice the whole planet for the glory of your political cult. A few birds is nothing compared to that. You just lie about caring in these selective cases so that you have an excuse to hate liberals.

Remember when I told you to shut up so you'd look less foolish?

You really should have taken that advice.

So, we can chalk another progressive up as not giving a damn about the wildlife their proposed energy solutions kill.

 

[daveman]

So all the dead wildlife is just ...collateral damage?

Are you worried that you won't get a chance to kill it first?

No, I don't hunt. And even if I did, I wouldn't hunt eagles.

So, thread summary:

Not one single progressive so far gives a damn that wind farms are killing animals.

 

[mamooth]

So, thread summary:

You couldn't address what any liberals actually said, so you used some cherrypicks and phony data to make up a deranged story about what liberals supposedly believe. And then declared victory. And then everyone laughed at you. It's the circle of life.

 

[flacaltenn]

So all the dead wildlife is just ...collateral damage?

Are you worried that you won't get a chance to kill it first?

That's the kind of childish snipe that's driving me to work more and post less.

 

[daveman]

So, thread summary:

You couldn't address what any liberals actually said, so you used some cherrypicks and phony data to make up a deranged story about what liberals supposedly believe. And then declared victory. And then everyone laughed at you. It's the circle of life.

You couldn't address the OP, so you screeched "Nuh-UH!!" and insisted you're the smartest guy in the room. And then declared victory.

And then I laughed at you.

How frustrated do you get when everyone doesn't kiss your butt in the manner to which you believe you're entitled?

Lots, looks like.

 

[flacaltenn]

So, thread summary:

You couldn't address what any liberals actually said, so you used some cherrypicks and phony data to make up a deranged story about what liberals supposedly believe. And then declared victory. And then everyone laughed at you. It's the circle of life.

Don't need statements from anyone else.. Yours are absurd enough..

The more you ignore the carnage and the wildly corrupt inconsistencies of enforcement of existing laws --- the more you and your misguided agenda fails..

Selective?? I don't think so.. When the problem is defined correctly as I have done --- it's pretty systemic to the whole industry..

Anyone with marginal environmental principles can see the loss of habitat created by these wind farms and pressure on PARTICULAR species that will not survive the location of these wind farms.

The law would not tolerate this slaughter if the lawmen weren't corrupted by corporate and political interests. It's a perfect example of how all that leftist ranting about govt/corporate collusion doesn't apply to their particular favorites..

Next time some lizard with an extra dimple on its snout stands in the way of progress, I'm sure you'll volunteer to drive the first bulldozer over the construction site..

 

[percysunshine]

 

[Abraham3]

So, thread summary:

You couldn't address what any liberals actually said, so you used some cherrypicks and phony data to make up a deranged story about what liberals supposedly believe. And then declared victory. And then everyone laughed at you. It's the circle of life.

Don't need statements from anyone else.. Yours are absurd enough..

The more you ignore the carnage and the wildly corrupt inconsistencies of enforcement of existing laws --- the more you and your misguided agenda fails..

Selective?? I don't think so.. When the problem is defined correctly as I have done --- it's pretty systemic to the whole industry..

Anyone with marginal environmental principles can see the loss of habitat created by these wind farms and pressure on PARTICULAR species that will not survive the location of these wind farms.

The law would not tolerate this slaughter if the lawmen weren't corrupted by corporate and political interests. It's a perfect example of how all that leftist ranting about govt/corporate collusion doesn't apply to their particular favorites..

Next time some lizard with an extra dimple on its snout stands in the way of progress, I'm sure you'll volunteer to drive the first bulldozer over the construction site..

What's been the death toll among wildlife at the world's strip mines? Any loss of habitat in that process? How many birds did the Exxon Valdez kill? How about the Deepwater Horizon? How about the Lakeview Gusher, the Atlantic Empress, the Aegean Captain, the Fergana Valley, the Nowruz Field Platform, the ABT Summer, the Castillo de Bellver, the Saldanha Bay or the Amoco Cadiz? How about the biggest spill of all: the oil fires and spills of the Iraq-Kuwait war?

All told, the petroleum industry has spilled over 216 MILLION F-ING TONS of crude oil on the land, in our lakes and in our oceans. Do you think that might have had some impact on wildlife?

And all this ignores the impacts of the combustion products in the air and water on wildlife (and even us domestic humans).

The government and manufacturers and users of wind generation equipment need to find techniques to reduce bird strikes. Noise makers, flashing lights, bright colors, magnetic fields... something. But don't dare come to us as if your hands were clean. We'd have to build wind farms for a thousand years before they caught up with the carnage that fossil fuel use has already created.

 

[daveman]

You couldn't address what any liberals actually said, so you used some cherrypicks and phony data to make up a deranged story about what liberals supposedly believe. And then declared victory. And then everyone laughed at you. It's the circle of life.

Don't need statements from anyone else.. Yours are absurd enough..

The more you ignore the carnage and the wildly corrupt inconsistencies of enforcement of existing laws --- the more you and your misguided agenda fails..

Selective?? I don't think so.. When the problem is defined correctly as I have done --- it's pretty systemic to the whole industry..

Anyone with marginal environmental principles can see the loss of habitat created by these wind farms and pressure on PARTICULAR species that will not survive the location of these wind farms.

The law would not tolerate this slaughter if the lawmen weren't corrupted by corporate and political interests. It's a perfect example of how all that leftist ranting about govt/corporate collusion doesn't apply to their particular favorites..

Next time some lizard with an extra dimple on its snout stands in the way of progress, I'm sure you'll volunteer to drive the first bulldozer over the construction site..

What's been the death toll among wildlife at the world's strip mines? Any loss of habitat in that process? How many birds did the Exxon Valdez kill? How about the Deepwater Horizon? How about the Lakeview Gusher, the Atlantic Empress, the Aegean Captain, the Fergana Valley, the Nowruz Field Platform, the ABT Summer, the Castillo de Bellver, the Saldanha Bay or the Amoco Cadiz? How about the biggest spill of all: the oil fires and spills of the Iraq-Kuwait war?

All told, the petroleum industry has spilled over 216 MILLION F-ING TONS of crude oil on the land, in our lakes and in our oceans. Do you think that might have had some impact on wildlife?

And all this ignores the impacts of the combustion products in the air and water on wildlife (and even us domestic humans).

The government and manufacturers and users of wind generation equipment need to find techniques to reduce bird strikes. Noise makers, flashing lights, bright colors, magnetic fields... something. But don't dare come to us as if your hands were clean. We'd have to build wind farms for a thousand years before they caught up with the carnage that fossil fuel use has already created.

Once more, for the cultist:

The fossil fuel industry doesn't claim to be saving the planet. The green energy industry does.

It's like PETA euthanizing animals to support their goal of protecting animals.

 

[Abraham3]

Don't need statements from anyone else.. Yours are absurd enough..

The more you ignore the carnage and the wildly corrupt inconsistencies of enforcement of existing laws --- the more you and your misguided agenda fails..

Selective?? I don't think so.. When the problem is defined correctly as I have done --- it's pretty systemic to the whole industry..

Anyone with marginal environmental principles can see the loss of habitat created by these wind farms and pressure on PARTICULAR species that will not survive the location of these wind farms.

The law would not tolerate this slaughter if the lawmen weren't corrupted by corporate and political interests. It's a perfect example of how all that leftist ranting about govt/corporate collusion doesn't apply to their particular favorites..

Next time some lizard with an extra dimple on its snout stands in the way of progress, I'm sure you'll volunteer to drive the first bulldozer over the construction site..

What's been the death toll among wildlife at the world's strip mines? Any loss of habitat in that process? How many birds did the Exxon Valdez kill? How about the Deepwater Horizon? How about the Lakeview Gusher, the Atlantic Empress, the Aegean Captain, the Fergana Valley, the Nowruz Field Platform, the ABT Summer, the Castillo de Bellver, the Saldanha Bay or the Amoco Cadiz? How about the biggest spill of all: the oil fires and spills of the Iraq-Kuwait war?

All told, the petroleum industry has spilled over 216 MILLION F-ING TONS of crude oil on the land, in our lakes and in our oceans. Do you think that might have had some impact on wildlife?

And all this ignores the impacts of the combustion products in the air and water on wildlife (and even us domestic humans).

The government and manufacturers and users of wind generation equipment need to find techniques to reduce bird strikes. Noise makers, flashing lights, bright colors, magnetic fields... something. But don't dare come to us as if your hands were clean. We'd have to build wind farms for a thousand years before they caught up with the carnage that fossil fuel use has already created.

Once more, for the cultist:

The fossil fuel industry doesn't claim to be saving the planet. The green energy industry does.

It's like PETA euthanizing animals to support their goal of protecting animals.

You missed the connection. Green energy is saving the world from the fossil fuel industry. We adopt one and get rid of the other, we get less total wildlife impact. Neat the way that works out.

 

[Mr. H.]

more animals die by planes, trains, semi-trucks and auto's and hunters, does that bother you also? Or is this just a, I hate green energy rant,,,again?

"planes, trains, semi-trucks and auto's and hunters" don't claim to be saving the planet, do they?

Not saving the planet, just producing energy with a much lower cost to the environment.

This is rich. And exactly who set this threshold of acceptable "cost" to the environment?

If a single dead bird is found at any of my installations it's an automatic $1,000 fine. Per incident.

 

[Abraham3]

"planes, trains, semi-trucks and auto's and hunters" don't claim to be saving the planet, do they?

Not saving the planet, just producing energy with a much lower cost to the environment.

This is rich. And exactly who set this threshold of acceptable "cost" to the environment?

If a single dead bird is found at any of my installations it's an automatic $1,000 fine. Per incident.

What sort of installations might those be?

 

[flacaltenn]

You couldn't address what any liberals actually said, so you used some cherrypicks and phony data to make up a deranged story about what liberals supposedly believe. And then declared victory. And then everyone laughed at you. It's the circle of life.

Don't need statements from anyone else.. Yours are absurd enough..

The more you ignore the carnage and the wildly corrupt inconsistencies of enforcement of existing laws --- the more you and your misguided agenda fails..

Selective?? I don't think so.. When the problem is defined correctly as I have done --- it's pretty systemic to the whole industry..

Anyone with marginal environmental principles can see the loss of habitat created by these wind farms and pressure on PARTICULAR species that will not survive the location of these wind farms.

The law would not tolerate this slaughter if the lawmen weren't corrupted by corporate and political interests. It's a perfect example of how all that leftist ranting about govt/corporate collusion doesn't apply to their particular favorites..

Next time some lizard with an extra dimple on its snout stands in the way of progress, I'm sure you'll volunteer to drive the first bulldozer over the construction site..

What's been the death toll among wildlife at the world's strip mines? Any loss of habitat in that process? How many birds did the Exxon Valdez kill? How about the Deepwater Horizon? How about the Lakeview Gusher, the Atlantic Empress, the Aegean Captain, the Fergana Valley, the Nowruz Field Platform, the ABT Summer, the Castillo de Bellver, the Saldanha Bay or the Amoco Cadiz? How about the biggest spill of all: the oil fires and spills of the Iraq-Kuwait war?

All told, the petroleum industry has spilled over 216 MILLION F-ING TONS of crude oil on the land, in our lakes and in our oceans. Do you think that might have had some impact on wildlife?

And all this ignores the impacts of the combustion products in the air and water on wildlife (and even us domestic humans).

The government and manufacturers and users of wind generation equipment need to find techniques to reduce bird strikes. Noise makers, flashing lights, bright colors, magnetic fields... something. But don't dare come to us as if your hands were clean. We'd have to build wind farms for a thousand years before they caught up with the carnage that fossil fuel use has already created.

That's why the siting and operation of oil operations has to pass rigid standards. They don't have a Federal army of agents picking up dead bodies and hiding them from the public. THOSE dead bodies make front page.. To compare an industry that produces a WHISPER of energy to one that CARRIES THIS ECONOMY --- is kinda a non-starter.

NOISE-MAKERS??? Ever STAND in proximity to a Multi-megawatt wind turbine?? It sounds like a turbo prop airplane.

YEAH -- go create SOMETHING --- and after you do that ---

YOU WILL STILL HAVE REMOVED PRIME HABITAT for those species who also locate there BECAUSE of the wind...

An oil spill is a transient event. A wind farm is not..

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't need statements from anyone else.. Yours are absurd enough..

The more you ignore the carnage and the wildly corrupt inconsistencies of enforcement of existing laws --- the more you and your misguided agenda fails..

Selective?? I don't think so.. When the problem is defined correctly as I have done --- it's pretty systemic to the whole industry..

Anyone with marginal environmental principles can see the loss of habitat created by these wind farms and pressure on PARTICULAR species that will not survive the location of these wind farms.

The law would not tolerate this slaughter if the lawmen weren't corrupted by corporate and political interests. It's a perfect example of how all that leftist ranting about govt/corporate collusion doesn't apply to their particular favorites..

Next time some lizard with an extra dimple on its snout stands in the way of progress, I'm sure you'll volunteer to drive the first bulldozer over the construction site..

What's been the death toll among wildlife at the world's strip mines? Any loss of habitat in that process? How many birds did the Exxon Valdez kill? How about the Deepwater Horizon? How about the Lakeview Gusher, the Atlantic Empress, the Aegean Captain, the Fergana Valley, the Nowruz Field Platform, the ABT Summer, the Castillo de Bellver, the Saldanha Bay or the Amoco Cadiz? How about the biggest spill of all: the oil fires and spills of the Iraq-Kuwait war?

All told, the petroleum industry has spilled over 216 MILLION F-ING TONS of crude oil on the land, in our lakes and in our oceans. Do you think that might have had some impact on wildlife?

And all this ignores the impacts of the combustion products in the air and water on wildlife (and even us domestic humans).

The government and manufacturers and users of wind generation equipment need to find techniques to reduce bird strikes. Noise makers, flashing lights, bright colors, magnetic fields... something. But don't dare come to us as if your hands were clean. We'd have to build wind farms for a thousand years before they caught up with the carnage that fossil fuel use has already created.

Once more, for the cultist:

The fossil fuel industry doesn't claim to be saving the planet. The green energy industry does.

It's like PETA euthanizing animals to support their goal of protecting animals.

Actually animal activists have essentially done that multiple times. When they've "freed" animals from facilities to meet their fate in an environment that can't naturally support them. Might as well have euthanized them.. Would have been more humane..

 

[Abraham3]

The oil spilled between 1900 and today would cover an area of over 3,000 square miles an inch deep in crude.

Compared to what the fossil fuel industry is doing to life on this planet, they WILL be saving us.

 

[Mr. H.]

Not saving the planet, just producing energy with a much lower cost to the environment.

This is rich. And exactly who set this threshold of acceptable "cost" to the environment?

If a single dead bird is found at any of my installations it's an automatic $1,000 fine. Per incident.

What sort of installations might those be?

Well they sure as fuck ain't wind farms now are they?