Hey Lefties: Define "Clean Energy"

[Tom Sweetnam]

Put up or shut up. Without petroleum, our transportation and industrial base shuts down, and without petrochemicals almost nothing you own can be manufactured any longer, including synthetic-based medicines. You bitch and moan (especially the global warmies) about petroleum, but you have nothing to replace it with. Where is this miracle substitute? Tell me about it. Now I'll sit back and await the deafening silence.

 

[Saigon]

I have no idea what you mean by 'lefties' in this context - I judge forms of energy production by its cost efficiency and productivity, not by its politics. So should you.

But to answer your question, clean energy for me is: nuclear, hydro, solar thermal and solar, tidal and wind.

Most countries can generate more than enough electricity from these forms of energy to not need fossil fuels of any kind. A few do already, and another dozen will within ten years or so.

 

[S.J.]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

 

[Nosmo King]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

I'm pretty sure we've already found clean energy sources. Saigon made a list and I agree.

Why is energy policy framed with the same, unreasonable political scaffold as every other issue?

Tell ya what. Let's discuss one facet of energy at a time. Which sector would benefit the most while costing us the least by using renewable, clean fuel? Transportation or electric generation?

 

[Saigon]

I'd also add in that I don't hear many voices suggesting that all nature gas-fired plants should be closed down. They have their place.

It's really more of a question of creating a mix between the dozen or so best forms of clean energy that best suits each country. For those who need to import fossil fuels, it probably makes more sense to look at becoming independent of unreliable trading partners like Russia.

 

[Saigon]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

It is a frightening thought that we stop polluting the planet, isn't it?

Really, SJ, maybe it's time to switch off your political views for a few minutes and actually think about what makes logical sense?

If you do, I'm fairly sure you'll come to agree that polluting the planet endlessly probably isn't the smartest idea.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

I'm pretty sure we've already found clean energy sources. Saigon made a list and I agree.

Why is energy policy framed with the same, unreasonable political scaffold as every other issue?

Tell ya what. Let's discuss one facet of energy at a time. Which sector would benefit the most while costing us the least by using renewable, clean fuel? Transportation or electric generation?

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

 

[S.J.]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

It is a frightening thought that we stop polluting the planet, isn't it?

Really, SJ, maybe it's time to switch off your political views for a few minutes and actually think about what makes logical sense?

If you do, I'm fairly sure you'll come to agree that polluting the planet endlessly probably isn't the smartest idea.

Cut the sarcasm and maybe we can have an adult discussion.

 

[Saigon]

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

You do seem to be incredibly confused....are you talking about energy production as in producing electricity, or you mean oil and fossil fuels used in transportation?

Your thread titlle is "clean energy", which I think most people would take to mean the former, no?

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

You do seem to be incredibly confused....are you talking about energy production as in producing electricity, or you mean oil and fossil fuels used in transportation?

Your thread titlle is "clean energy", which I think most people would take to mean the former, no?

Only incredibly confused? You're a sweetheart. I think I'm far more befuddled than that...and so do 300 mental health specialists here at USMB who are always so ready to pass on their therapeutic conclusions as to my state of mental health. They're such nice people.

I've already got solar and I'm building a much bigger grid. The area of the SanLuisValley where I live is called "Windy Point". Guess why? I've experimented with wind generators but they're too impractical unless they're enormous, and then you pay $2 for $1 worth of energy. A democrats dream child in other words.

Nobody around here uses wind-powered generators. Many of us use solar however. Nuclear? Absolutely, but the geriatric hippies with zero understanding of nuclear energy say no, so there you have it.

What I want to hear about is this, and I’ll whittle it down to as few words as possible so that even a mental health specialist/renewable energy expert like you can understand it. Quit stalling:


WHAT IS THIS MAGIC RENEWABLE CLEAN ENERGY MIRACLE THAT WILL REPLACE PETROLEUM???

 

[Saigon]

Tom -

Is your thread about energy production for electricity, or about the use of fossil fuels in transport?

Those are two very different questions, with very different answers.

I am more than happy to answer either, but you do need to decide what your question is first.

 

[Politico]

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

You do seem to be incredibly confused....are you talking about energy production as in producing electricity, or you mean oil and fossil fuels used in transportation?

Your thread titlle is "clean energy", which I think most people would take to mean the former, no?

He's not confused. He's saying you can run a jetliner on electric fans and rainbows.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Listen to all these poor deluded left-wing saps tripping over themselves trying to avoid the question I've asked twice. Well they can't answer it, can they? Ignoramuses.

 

[ChrisL]

[QUOTE="Tom Sweetnam, post: 10045367, member: 50742"]Put up or shut up. Without petroleum, our transportation and industrial base shuts down, and without petrochemicals almost nothing you own can be manufactured any longer, including synthetic-based medicines. You bitch and moan (especially the global warmies) about petroleum, but you have nothing to replace it with. Where is this miracle substitute? Tell me about it. Now I'll sit back and await the deafening silence.[/QUOTE]

There is no such thing as "clean energy," at least nothing that could "power" our nation. The leftists want to take us back into the Middle Ages. I wonder if that's why they like Muslims so much? Oops . . . did I say that out loud?

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

So the anti-petroleum crowd can't conjure a thing from their magic hat that in any way can replace petroleum. They'd rather bitch, moan, and set the world in retrograde.

 

[Nosmo King]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

I'm pretty sure we've already found clean energy sources. Saigon made a list and I agree.

Why is energy policy framed with the same, unreasonable political scaffold as every other issue?

Tell ya what. Let's discuss one facet of energy at a time. Which sector would benefit the most while costing us the least by using renewable, clean fuel? Transportation or electric generation?

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

So you have chosen transportation as the topic. There are several technologies to consider. My money is on the hydrogen fuel cell. Mainly because hydrogen is the most abundant element on the planet. But the fuel cell can be used to generate electric power in residential and commercial applications.certainly the advances in battery technology shows that long range, reliable batteries are here and being used effectively.

Advances in biofuelss show that this alternative is viable.

In 1850 you would be complaining that the whale oil in your lamps is irreplaceable. But less than a generation later, you would not have whale oil on your shopping list. If you were to invent the automobile in 2014 instead of 1894, you would not consider a gasoline engine, a heavy transmission and transfer case, or a crank case with a gallon of liquid lubricant. Our next generation of transportation could be powered by any number of clean fuels.

 

[S.J.]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

I'm pretty sure we've already found clean energy sources. Saigon made a list and I agree.

Why is energy policy framed with the same, unreasonable political scaffold as every other issue?

Tell ya what. Let's discuss one facet of energy at a time. Which sector would benefit the most while costing us the least by using renewable, clean fuel? Transportation or electric generation?

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

So you have chosen transportation as the topic. There are several technologies to consider. My money is on the hydrogen fuel cell. Mainly because hydrogen is the most abundant element on the planet. But the fuel cell can be used to generate electric power in residential and commercial applications.certainly the advances in battery technology shows that long range, reliable batteries are here and being used effectively.

Advances in biofuelss show that this alternative is viable.

In 1850 you would be complaining that the whale oil in your lamps is irreplaceable. But less than a generation later, you would not have whale oil on your shopping list. If you were to invent the automobile in 2014 instead of 1894, you would not consider a gasoline engine, a heavy transmission and transfer case, or a crank case with a gallon of liquid lubricant. Our next generation of transportation could be powered by any number of clean fuels.

Fine, when it is developed we can start using it instead of fossil fuel but it's not developed yet. Until it is, we have to stick with what we have.

 

[Nosmo King]

Liberals come up with a dream that we stop polluting the planet with fossil fuels, then push that dream to make it a reality. Problem is, they start enacting legislation to move to alternative energy sources before these energy sources are even found.

I'm pretty sure we've already found clean energy sources. Saigon made a list and I agree.

Why is energy policy framed with the same, unreasonable political scaffold as every other issue?

Tell ya what. Let's discuss one facet of energy at a time. Which sector would benefit the most while costing us the least by using renewable, clean fuel? Transportation or electric generation?

Let me be more specific. Tell me what I can use to run my truck and my tractor? What can airliners use for fuel? Locomotives? Semi's? Humongous container ships? What is this "renewable clean fuel" of which you speak? I think it's a figment from the LSD trashed minds of geriatric marxist hippies, but you an set me straight on that.

So you have chosen transportation as the topic. There are several technologies to consider. My money is on the hydrogen fuel cell. Mainly because hydrogen is the most abundant element on the planet. But the fuel cell can be used to generate electric power in residential and commercial applications.certainly the advances in battery technology shows that long range, reliable batteries are here and being used effectively.

Advances in biofuelss show that this alternative is viable.

In 1850 you would be complaining that the whale oil in your lamps is irreplaceable. But less than a generation later, you would not have whale oil on your shopping list. If you were to invent the automobile in 2014 instead of 1894, you would not consider a gasoline engine, a heavy transmission and transfer case, or a crank case with a gallon of liquid lubricant. Our next generation of transportation could be powered by any number of clean fuels.

Fine, when it is developed we can start using it instead of fossil fuel but it's not developed yet. Until it is, we have to stick with what we have.

Absolutely. The distribution infrastructure has to be developed, Manufacturers have to retool and run through a numbers of prototypes and many bugs have to be solved. But clean, renewable fuels for transportation uses are here and growing.

I wonder why so many Conservatives are so skeptical? Why push politics up against clean fuel unless you're beholding to the oil companies?

 

[rightwinger]

Put up or shut up. Without petroleum, our transportation and industrial base shuts down, and without petrochemicals almost nothing you own can be manufactured any longer, including synthetic-based medicines. You bitch and moan (especially the global warmies) about petroleum, but you have nothing to replace it with. Where is this miracle substitute? Tell me about it. Now I'll sit back and await the deafening silence.

Why are you in love with petroleum?
It dominates the energy market now. Why does it upset you so much if it doesn't dominate in 50 years?

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

Errr...excuse me all you energy alternative nabobs. Hydrogen for cell applications doesn't occur naturally on our planet. It has to be manufactured...from methane and fossil fuels. That isn't to say I'm not a fan of hydrogen's potential. I am. But let's don't walk a mile around the block just to cross the street.

Furthermore, all modern automobiles and pickup trucks made since the late 80's, at least in Japan and the West, with their electronic fuel injection systems, their sophisticated onboard computers, their lamda sensors, their tuned exhausts and their efficient catalytic converters, mean that pretty much the only thing coming out of the exhaust pipe...is water.