Here's your 3rd-party platform

[bripat9643]

.

The partisans in our crowd won't like this, but I sure as hell do.

Esquire magazine has come out with a poll of American centrists that is very telling. I don't agree with everything on this list, but taken as a whole I would definitely vote for someone who ran on this platform, based on the poll's results:

1. End affirmative action in hiring decisions and college applications.

2. No path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

3. End Constitutional originalism.

4. End two-party rule.

5. Require background checks for all gun purchases.

6. End race and gender wage discrimination.

7. Raise the minimum wage to $10/hour.

8. Keep food stamps, Medicaid, and welfare.

9. Allow abortions, but not after three months.

10. Legalize marijuana.

11. Legalize gay marriage.

12. Stop trying to be the world’s policeman.

13. Reduce foreign aid.

14. Spend less, period.

15. Tax carbon-polluters.

16. Expand oil and gas drilling.

17. Keep the death penalty.


These are the wishes of those who are not paralyzed by their political ideology.

Center of American Politics - Statistics and Numbers on American Politics - Esquire

if that is true its a nice showing of how uninformed people in this country are.

In which direction?

These are the people who aren't running around like petulant seven-year-olds who have to have things their way or they'll hold their breath until they turn blue.

Whatever the level of "informed" they are, at least they are above that kind of behavior.

.

Yeah, they are "above" having a rational coherent position on the issues. They just pick positions entirely at random. Why would they ever get upset about taking any particular stand on an issue since they have no principles?

You're doing a good job of demonstrating that the middle is populated entirely by morons.

 

[JoeB131]

.

The partisans in our crowd won't like this, but I sure as hell do.

Esquire magazine has come out with a poll of American centrists that is very telling. I don't agree with everything on this list, but taken as a whole I would definitely vote for someone who ran on this platform, based on the poll's results:

1. End affirmative action in hiring decisions and college applications.

2. No path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

3. End Constitutional originalism.

4. End two-party rule.

5. Require background checks for all gun purchases.

6. End race and gender wage discrimination.

7. Raise the minimum wage to $10/hour.

8. Keep food stamps, Medicaid, and welfare.

9. Allow abortions, but not after three months.

10. Legalize marijuana.

11. Legalize gay marriage.

12. Stop trying to be the world’s policeman.

13. Reduce foreign aid.

14. Spend less, period.

15. Tax carbon-polluters.

16. Expand oil and gas drilling.

17. Keep the death penalty.


These are the wishes of those who are not paralyzed by their political ideology.

Center of American Politics - Statistics and Numbers on American Politics - Esquire

I think the problem with this list is that it found ways to phrase issues that sound nice, and get a majority to agree with them.

For instance, 1 and 6 both sound nice. We want to end race/gender discrimination, but we don't want government telling folks who they HAVE to hire. The problem is, they contradict each other.

 

[Mac1958]

I think the problem with this list is that it found ways to phrase issues that sound nice, and get a majority to agree with them.

For instance, 1 and 6 both sound nice. We want to end race/gender discrimination, but we don't want government telling folks who they HAVE to hire. The problem is, they contradict each other.

I think they go together perfectly. It's not the government's place to mandate who a company hires, especially over something as trivial as skin pigmentation. That's forced discrimination. It's the government making a business look at the color of a person's skin in its hiring decisions.

I'm against race discrimination, in any direction, and I've always thought that most of us are. Looks like I may have been right on that one.

.

 

[Mac1958]

Yeah, they are "above" having a rational coherent position on the issues. They just pick positions entirely at random. Why would they ever get upset about taking any particular stand on an issue since they have no principles?

You're doing a good job of demonstrating that the middle is populated entirely by morons.

Wow, I can really see how you just don't get it. You're completely flummoxed by the mere thought that most people can consider every individual issue on its own merits. It's like we're from Mars, I'll bet.

This is an example of how commitment to a partisan ideology ultimately traps people in an intellectual vacuum. No light gets in. And perhaps most interestingly, the guys on the radio have convinced you that unless you adhere to a simplistic partisan ideology, you have no "principles".

Admittedly, considering an issue does take a little more effort than just "choosing a side", which is what we used to do in grammar school. As I predicted, the partisans don't like this idea. Both ends of the spectrum (what, maybe a total of 20%, max?) will have to do what they can to discredit this, before they lose their place in the sandbox.

.

 

[JoeB131]

I think the problem with this list is that it found ways to phrase issues that sound nice, and get a majority to agree with them.

For instance, 1 and 6 both sound nice. We want to end race/gender discrimination, but we don't want government telling folks who they HAVE to hire. The problem is, they contradict each other.

I think they go together perfectly. It's not the government's place to mandate who a company hires, especially over something as trivial as skin pigmentation. That's forced discrimination. It's the government making a business look at the color of a person's skin in its hiring decisions.

I'm against race discrimination, in any direction, and I've always thought that most of us are. Looks like I may have been right on that one.

.

But how do you end wage discrimination based on race/gender without making government actually watch who is being hired?

See my point.

 

[Mac1958]

I think the problem with this list is that it found ways to phrase issues that sound nice, and get a majority to agree with them.

For instance, 1 and 6 both sound nice. We want to end race/gender discrimination, but we don't want government telling folks who they HAVE to hire. The problem is, they contradict each other.

I think they go together perfectly. It's not the government's place to mandate who a company hires, especially over something as trivial as skin pigmentation. That's forced discrimination. It's the government making a business look at the color of a person's skin in its hiring decisions.

I'm against race discrimination, in any direction, and I've always thought that most of us are. Looks like I may have been right on that one.

.

But how do you end wage discrimination based on race/gender without making government actually watch who is being hired?

See my point.

You do it the hard way. You do it through the heavy lifting, not with bureaucratic band aids that arbitrarily pick the winners and losers.

You do it through the culture.

It's already happening.

.

 

[JoeB131]

[


You do it the hard way. You do it through the heavy lifting, not with bureaucratic band aids that arbitrarily pick the winners and losers.

You do it through the culture.

It's already happening.

.

Not really...

'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

The other, however, suggests a black-sounding name remains an impediment to getting a job. After responding to 1,300 classified ads with dummy resumes, the authors found black-sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get a callback than white-sounding names with comparable resumes.

If nothing else, the first paper, by the NBER's Roland Fryer and the University of Chicago's Steven Levitt, based on California birth data, provides probably the most detailed snapshot yet of distinctive naming practices. It shows, for instance, that in recent years, more than 40 percent of black girls were given names that weren't given to even one of the more than 100,000 white girls born in the state the same year.

 

[Mac1958]

[


You do it the hard way. You do it through the heavy lifting, not with bureaucratic band aids that arbitrarily pick the winners and losers.

You do it through the culture.

It's already happening.

.

Not really...

'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

The other, however, suggests a black-sounding name remains an impediment to getting a job. After responding to 1,300 classified ads with dummy resumes, the authors found black-sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get a callback than white-sounding names with comparable resumes.

If nothing else, the first paper, by the NBER's Roland Fryer and the University of Chicago's Steven Levitt, based on California birth data, provides probably the most detailed snapshot yet of distinctive naming practices. It shows, for instance, that in recent years, more than 40 percent of black girls were given names that weren't given to even one of the more than 100,000 white girls born in the state the same year.

Dang it Joe, come on, no one is saying we're reached 100%. And as I clearly said, this would still take some heavy lifting. Time. Effort. Not simplistic band-aids.

Here's a great example for ya. I'll (try to) keep it brief (no promises):

A good buddy of mine is a VP for a Fortune 100 company. He's also a solid conservative - not a crazy, just a solid conservative. A few years ago, his company brought in a firm that teaches the value of diversity within corporations. I remember him saying, "oh great, diversity, here we go, worthless touchy feely stuff". You probably know where his head was at going into it.

Shock of shocks, they opened his eyes. Using clear demographic data and marketing examples, they demonstrated how hiring women and minorities was a clear economic advantage to this company. The thrust of it essentially was, "diversity within your organization helps you much more effectively communicate with a shitload of people". He loved it. Blew my freakin' mind, and I still give him shit about it.

This presentation was not forced on my friend by the government. It was a private company that opened his eyes. While the government would force him to act in a certain way -- and can you admit that this would add to any animosity he may have? -- a private business appealed to his business side and got him right.

It needs to be done through the culture, not forced on us by the government. And back to the "centrist" survey, it appears most independents agree with that.

.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sorry, having worked for so many Corporate Douchebags, any plan that involves expecting them to act like decent human beings is a non-starter for me.

Just don't buy it.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm sorry, having worked for so many Corporate Douchebags, any plan that involves expecting them to act like decent human beings is a non-starter for me.

Just don't buy it.

Well, you asked. But I forgot about your thing for businesses. I'd put it another way then, and that is that they appealed to his "corporate greed" and showed him how to make "more money". But I realize that's a non-starter with you.

This is, however, how people who are not on wing think.

.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sorry, having worked for so many Corporate Douchebags, any plan that involves expecting them to act like decent human beings is a non-starter for me.

Just don't buy it.

Well, you asked. But I forgot about your thing for businesses. I'd put it another way then, and that is that they appealed to his "corporate greed" and showed him how to make "more money". But I realize that's a non-starter with you.

This is, however, how people who are not on wing think.

.

Yup, I could care less if the douchebags make more money, either.

Because frankly, I've seen too much bad behavior.

I don't count on my job safety being reliant on his greed or his decency. I know that the reason I work in a safe work environment is because OSHA will come down on them like a ton of bricks if they don't.

 

[deltex1]

.

The partisans in our crowd won't like this, but I sure as hell do.

Esquire magazine has come out with a poll of American centrists that is very telling. I don't agree with everything on this list, but taken as a whole I would definitely vote for someone who ran on this platform, based on the poll's results:

1. End affirmative action in hiring decisions and college applications.

2. No path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

3. End Constitutional originalism.

4. End two-party rule.

5. Require background checks for all gun purchases.

6. End race and gender wage discrimination.

7. Raise the minimum wage to $10/hour.

8. Keep food stamps, Medicaid, and welfare.

9. Allow abortions, but not after three months.

10. Legalize marijuana.

11. Legalize gay marriage.

12. Stop trying to be the world’s policeman.

13. Reduce foreign aid.

14. Spend less, period.

15. Tax carbon-polluters.

16. Expand oil and gas drilling.

17. Keep the death penalty.


These are the wishes of those who are not paralyzed by their political ideology.

Center of American Politics - Statistics and Numbers on American Politics - Esquire

wow was that ever helpful.

 

[zeke]

[


You do it the hard way. You do it through the heavy lifting, not with bureaucratic band aids that arbitrarily pick the winners and losers.

You do it through the culture.

It's already happening.

.

Not really...

'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

The other, however, suggests a black-sounding name remains an impediment to getting a job. After responding to 1,300 classified ads with dummy resumes, the authors found black-sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get a callback than white-sounding names with comparable resumes.

If nothing else, the first paper, by the NBER's Roland Fryer and the University of Chicago's Steven Levitt, based on California birth data, provides probably the most detailed snapshot yet of distinctive naming practices. It shows, for instance, that in recent years, more than 40 percent of black girls were given names that weren't given to even one of the more than 100,000 white girls born in the state the same year.

A good friend of mine that happens to be black has three kids with names like Fred and Penny. I asked him why his kids didn't have Africanized names with 14 consonants and a vowel.

He told me that it was hard enough for a young black person to find work and that he was not going to cause name prejudice so that when a hiring manager looked at one of his kids resume, they wouldn't know what color they were based on a name.

He's a pretty smart guy but his kids have still struggled to find work.

 

[rightwinger]

The problem historically with third parties is that they draw votes from one party or the other and tilt the election to the other side.

A far right third party would ensure victory for the Democrats
A far left third party would ensure victory for the Republicans

The only third party that is capable of winning is a moderate third party. Draw from the center

In this case, neither the Democrats nor Republicans would have the majority and it would be the moderate third party would decide the issues

 

[editec]

In the world of MODERATES, many self proclaiming moderates agree with what the outcome ought to be.

Its HOW TO ACG?IEVE that outcome where even moderate disagree.

In fact, to some extent that often even describes many partisans.

What we mostly ALL want is an economically viable, socially healthy nation where there are just enough laws, and just enough freedom and plenty of real opportunity for all.

But how to make that happen?

That's where partisans (and even moderates) usually disagree

 

[JoeB131]

[


You do it the hard way. You do it through the heavy lifting, not with bureaucratic band aids that arbitrarily pick the winners and losers.

You do it through the culture.

It's already happening.

.

Not really...

'Black' Names A Resume Burden? - CBS News

The other, however, suggests a black-sounding name remains an impediment to getting a job. After responding to 1,300 classified ads with dummy resumes, the authors found black-sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get a callback than white-sounding names with comparable resumes.

If nothing else, the first paper, by the NBER's Roland Fryer and the University of Chicago's Steven Levitt, based on California birth data, provides probably the most detailed snapshot yet of distinctive naming practices. It shows, for instance, that in recent years, more than 40 percent of black girls were given names that weren't given to even one of the more than 100,000 white girls born in the state the same year.

A good friend of mine that happens to be black has three kids with names like Fred and Penny. I asked him why his kids didn't have Africanized names with 14 consonants and a vowel.

He told me that it was hard enough for a young black person to find work and that he was not going to cause name prejudice so that when a hiring manager looked at one of his kids resume, they wouldn't know what color they were based on a name.

He's a pretty smart guy but his kids have still struggled to find work.

True enough.

And the point i was bringing up with the resume issue was not that names are the problem, it is that racism is still out there. All a name on a resume does is allow the racist employer the luxury of aborting the job search at the point of conception.

 

[Mac1958]

A good friend of mine that happens to be black has three kids with names like Fred and Penny. I asked him why his kids didn't have Africanized names with 14 consonants and a vowel.

He told me that it was hard enough for a young black person to find work and that he was not going to cause name prejudice so that when a hiring manager looked at one of his kids resume, they wouldn't know what color they were based on a name.

He's a pretty smart guy but his kids have still struggled to find work.

So if a person voluntarily names their kid a name that might make it difficult for that kid to find a job, that's my fault and responsibility? It's then the role of government to step in and mitigate the damage by picking the winner and loser when that poor kid is looking for a job?

Ya got me, I don't even know how to respond to that.

.

 

[hazlnut]

.

The partisans in our crowd won't like this, but I sure as hell do.

Esquire magazine has come out with a poll of American centrists that is very telling. I don't agree with everything on this list, but taken as a whole I would definitely vote for someone who ran on this platform, based on the poll's results:

1. End affirmative action in hiring decisions and college applications.

2. No path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

3. End Constitutional originalism.

4. End two-party rule.

5. Require background checks for all gun purchases.

6. End race and gender wage discrimination.

7. Raise the minimum wage to $10/hour.

8. Keep food stamps, Medicaid, and welfare.

9. Allow abortions, but not after three months.

10. Legalize marijuana.

11. Legalize gay marriage.

12. Stop trying to be the world’s policeman.

13. Reduce foreign aid.

14. Spend less, period.

15. Tax carbon-polluters.

16. Expand oil and gas drilling.

17. Keep the death penalty.


These are the wishes of those who are not paralyzed by their political ideology.

Center of American Politics - Statistics and Numbers on American Politics - Esquire

I like it.

**Keep in mind, some severe birth defects can not be detected until the second trimester -- quality of life decisions are a private matter -- late term = 20 weeks.


**Colleges / Universities can define the ethnic make up of Freshman classes as they see fit. An underprivileged applicant from Watts with 1200 SATs may have more to offer the University than a student from Beverly Hills with SAT tutors who helped him get 1800. Let the interviews and essays and life stories decide who gets in. A multi-ethinic class with students from various economic situations benefits the entire University. NO QUOTAS -- but let Admissions directors pick and choose a dynamic class from ALL the qualified applicants. White kids with perfect SATs are a dime a dozen, those kids and their parents need to realize that they are not that special. It's more impressive to have good grades, SATs, great interview, essay and life story when coming from urban housing projects.


**$10.00/hr = $1600/month working 1 f/t job. = $19,000/yr = tax-payer supported entitlements, safety nets, health care, food stamps, welfare. We can get cheap goods at Walmart, but we pay later with our Taxes.

Henry Ford paid 5x the factory worker wage for the time -- and he did all right. The Walton Family can afford to pay higher wagers, provide health care for ALL their employees and still be billionaires.

 

[Old Rocks]

I have no problem with that list. There are matters of degree on each element that would be argued on, but the basics are reasonable.

 

[JoeB131]

A good friend of mine that happens to be black has three kids with names like Fred and Penny. I asked him why his kids didn't have Africanized names with 14 consonants and a vowel.

He told me that it was hard enough for a young black person to find work and that he was not going to cause name prejudice so that when a hiring manager looked at one of his kids resume, they wouldn't know what color they were based on a name.

He's a pretty smart guy but his kids have still struggled to find work.

So if a person voluntarily names their kid a name that might make it difficult for that kid to find a job, that's my fault and responsibility? It's then the role of government to step in and mitigate the damage by picking the winner and loser when that poor kid is looking for a job?

Ya got me, I don't even know how to respond to that.

.

I think you miss the point.


The point is, not the name being the problem. The Attitude.

If a guy isn't going to hire Jamal because he's black. He isn't going to hire "John" when he's black, and shows up for an interview.

Unless you have a rule that states that you are an equal oppurtunity employer and are hiring fairly and can prove you are doing so.