Here's How Arabs INTEROGATE People....

[PubliusInfinitum]

After reading all the comments I have come up with a couple of conclusions:

A. If you feel that it is torture which alot of people feel it is then you should push your reps. to start some kind of investigation into the matter.

B. For those who think it was not, you really should experience it I promise you that is a feeling you would never want to experience in your life. But if after that you still feel that way then any issues you have with other countries in the world and human rights violations should be thrown out the window. The if they do it we can do it is really childish in that regard because if everything was like that this world would be alot worse.

But my final thought is it really is torture, that feeling of drowning its hard to explain it. But I think it is torture plain and simple. I promise most people (there are some who would be into it) would feel that way after experiencing waterboarding.

I've experienced it... both being to subjected to it and the implementation of it... and that it hurts, doesn't make it torture... that's it horrifying doesn't make it torture and that it's critical and necessary in the fight aganst secret organizations whose sole tactic is mass murder... is incontestable.

Let me ask you this... Human rights... any responsibility there or are they just freebies, like say government cheese?

Meaning, when you use the word torture... you use it without any real meaning... its just a word that can mean anything to anyone... One of your allies in this issue has described torture as being subjected to the writing of her opposition... She also uses the same word to describe the breaking of bones; disembowelment... severing of digits, hands arms and feet... which she equates to US ceorcive interrogation, while admitting the US just isn't that bad. But that admission doesn't persuade her to use a different word... just because it's different... from the stuff the other word represents.

So that gives me cause for pause when I see you use the phrase 'human rights'.... what does that mean to you?

What are these rights and where do they come from?

As you understand "human rights"... are there any responsibilities which come with these rights; or do ya just have them without regard to your behavior?

What authority do these rights possess? Whose responsible for defending them? Do they need defending at all?

Get back to me on that when you respond to this...

 

[Bullypulpit]

Just more of the same addle-minded Ad hoc crap from the same addle-minded promoters of terrorism...

Speeding is a crime too... yet we authorize certain elements of our culture to exceed the speed limit... Which means, that EXCEEDING THE POSTED LEGAL LIMIT IS NOT ALWAYS A CRIME...

Which is precisely the same principle on this issue...

Torture is a CRIME, when TORTURE does not serve a moral imperative... just as the exception we provide to law enforcement, they are allowed to exceed the legal limit to serve a moral imperative...

I realize that this is well beyond your intellectual means... the purpose of this statement is simply to demonstrate your limitations and belittle and berate you for being such a FOOL...

Any questions Sis?

Oh... Ok... I thought you were making the argument that Torture is illegal... and that there are no exceptions... and speeding is illegal, yet there are exceptions... and the exception is founded in the moral imperative... Just EXATCLY like the exception for the US Military for inducing limited forms of stress on those who are associated with secret organizations who overtly seek the wholesale slaughter of innocent human beings, wherein culling from them, critical, time sensitive information, which is necessary to prevent the slaughter of innocent people...






You mean they can pursue the fleeing criminal... that they are given the exception to pursue such at well over the posted legal limit hardly guarantees that they will apprehend such... but, it does INCREASE THE CHANCES... doesn't it?



Yeah... no kidding... Now what purpose is served by asking someone for information which is NOT what ya want to hear? Meaning that IF what I want to hear is the name of the person who provided you with the money that was found in your possessions... That is what I want to hear... if you're an Arab Muslim living Shitholistan and "John Elway" is who you cite... that isn't going to serve your desire to be relieved of the stress you're enduring...

The idea that these techniques are tantamount to torture is absurd and the notion that these techniques cull false confessions is absurd... The people advancing these interrogations are not living in a closet, where they torture the innocent for giggles... they're professionals who understand every facet of their job and excorcise information through many layers of information which tests veracity...

It is a 100% certainty that those subjected to these techniques will tell their interrogator everything they know about whatever it is they're being asked... and they'll do it in a timely manner; and this without exception.



John McCain was subjected to torture, which is a whole different issue than US Stress inducing coercive interrogation...

But John McCain eventually told his interrogators everything he knew about whatever it was they asked... He fed them a ton of crap, at first... but he's freely admitted that he folded like a $2.00 TENT...

Don't even TRY to compare what McCain went through to what the US is subjecting these Mass Murdering terrorists to...



You're either a liar or an idiot... I frankly don't care which as one is a unenviable as the next...




The US isn't torturing anyone... but we have culled critical time sensitive information which has STOPPED ONGOING OPERATIONS BY THE TERRORISTS ENEMY WHICH WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE RESULTED IN THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT US CITIZENS BEING SLAUGHTERED... thus your position is absurd...




There is no valid justification for terrorism or the irrational notion of Islamic jihad as practiced by the terrorist.... and there is no end to invalid justifications; they're a dime a dozen and can be found anywhere... one of the first order, is the projection advanced by YOU and your TERRORIST PROMOTING COMRADES that the US is torturing the innocent... TERRORISTS. Your position establishes the absurdity that the TERRORISTS ARE THE VICTIMS...

Which is a position (Leftists inevitably running to defend the would-be "Rights" of Terrorists, that the Left would turn that mayhem around to revise history to reflect that it was the TERRORISTS who are the victims of the war which was certain to come as a result of the attack which had just occurred...) that I stated publically would soon come to pass, ON THE AFTERNOON OF 9-11-01... As Mahatten and the Pentagon smoldered... and I was roundly chastized for such, by the Leftist and their Moderate comrades on that board... "How could you SAY such a thing? These people deserve everything that they get and we'll NEVER defend them..." "Bullshit... We won't turn around twice and you'll be crying about how we're mistreating them and how I reaction to this attack is over the top and how they have rights too... You people are why this happened... The Terrorists know that we will soon go to work pummeling them across the world for this and that all they have to do is to survive to win... that YOU IDIOTS will win the war for them..." And they went NUTS!

Look around kids... What you're seeing on any of the DOZEN "Torture" threads in progress right now across this very board, is little more than the Ideological left desperately trying to make the MASS MURDERING TERRORISTS... to be the VICTIMS... That is ALL this is....

But... In the end, we (meaning Americans and specifically excluding the terrorist promoting, ANTI-American left...) don't give a flying FUCK if the terrorists find a 'justification' to recruit new jihadists... as we're going to kill every single one; and where we find one, we're going to squeeze that mass murdering POS for everyhting he's ever known and hunt his buddies down and kill them, except for the ones we think will serve as the best coffessor and we're gonna squeeze that individual for every THEY know and hunt their buddies down and kill them... and so on into perpetuity, until such time that one of two things happen... there comes a time when there are no more to hunt down and kill or they find a justification to stop...

Any questions Sis?

As for America's "moral imperative", that imperative is the rule of law.

ROFLMNAO.... Leftists...

So the law is the moral imperative? The Law serves the interests of the law? Law for the sake of law?

STFU!

The law serves justice and justice serves the moral imperative and the moral imperative is the equal defense of valid and sustainable human rights... where a law fails to serve justice, that law is invalid and where one declares that any form of stress is ILLEGAL and thus precludes culling timesensitive information to prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocent human beings... that law does not serve the moral imperative of defending inncoent human life; thus does not serve justice; thus is not valid; thus it is the duty of the free sovereign to diregard that law where they are duty-bound to defend that moral imperative...

So now that you've been educated... Stop trolling and find something LESS SUBVERSIVE TO DO WITH YOUR TIME.

Well, I suppose I could help you pull your head out of your ass. But we'd need a full haz-mat team on hand to clean up the resulting torrent of shit that would come gushing forth.It would be rather like the flood from a breached waste holding pond at a factory pig farm.

 

[007]

Gosh Pale, you're still as chock full o' crap as you ever were. It doesn't matter what you, or any other right wing nut-case thinks...Your opinion is irrelevant. Torture is a crime, no matter who does it, regardless of the reason. What was shown in your little video clip is not interrogation...It is sadism disguised as interrogation, also known as torture, and likely produced nothing more than a false confession, if that. And as there is no context for the clip, we really don't know what it was.

The actions sanctioned by the Bush administration under the auspices of the Bybee and Yoo memos ARE torture as defined by US law, US treaty obligation, and international law. This POST lays it all out for you.

Sorry if it doesn't satisfy your jingoistic, knee-jerk response to any attack on the late, unlamented Bush administration, but as I stated earlier, your opinion is irrelevant. It is settled case law...Water-boarding IS torture.

Well BULL... nice to see you hear chiming in.... me->

<-you... but really, you're as predictable as ever bull. You missed the point as well as all your liberal brethren. The whole point is, if you liberals want to get all pissed off about "TORTURE," then why don't you get all pissed off at the people that DO IT, FOR REAL?! Of course I ask knowing I won't get a straight answer, because I know you liberals. You're not happy unless you have something to BASH America about. And if you don't have a good reason to bash America, you bat shit crazy, zealots will FABRIC one.

So thanks for your two cents bull, because that's all it was worth.... practically nothing.

Pale, you must first HAVE a point to be missed. See my response to "Publius Immodicus".

What was it I just said about what you'd say Bull? Oh yeah...

...I won't get a straight answer, because I know you liberals.

You're as predictable as ever Bub.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Oh... Ok... I thought you were making the argument that Torture is illegal... and that there are no exceptions... and speeding is illegal, yet there are exceptions... and the exception is founded in the moral imperative... Just EXATCLY like the exception for the US Military for inducing limited forms of stress on those who are associated with secret organizations who overtly seek the wholesale slaughter of innocent human beings, wherein culling from them, critical, time sensitive information, which is necessary to prevent the slaughter of innocent people...






You mean they can pursue the fleeing criminal... that they are given the exception to pursue such at well over the posted legal limit hardly guarantees that they will apprehend such... but, it does INCREASE THE CHANCES... doesn't it?



Yeah... no kidding... Now what purpose is served by asking someone for information which is NOT what ya want to hear? Meaning that IF what I want to hear is the name of the person who provided you with the money that was found in your possessions... That is what I want to hear... if you're an Arab Muslim living Shitholistan and "John Elway" is who you cite... that isn't going to serve your desire to be relieved of the stress you're enduring...

The idea that these techniques are tantamount to torture is absurd and the notion that these techniques cull false confessions is absurd... The people advancing these interrogations are not living in a closet, where they torture the innocent for giggles... they're professionals who understand every facet of their job and excorcise information through many layers of information which tests veracity...

It is a 100% certainty that those subjected to these techniques will tell their interrogator everything they know about whatever it is they're being asked... and they'll do it in a timely manner; and this without exception.



John McCain was subjected to torture, which is a whole different issue than US Stress inducing coercive interrogation...

But John McCain eventually told his interrogators everything he knew about whatever it was they asked... He fed them a ton of crap, at first... but he's freely admitted that he folded like a $2.00 TENT...

Don't even TRY to compare what McCain went through to what the US is subjecting these Mass Murdering terrorists to...



You're either a liar or an idiot... I frankly don't care which as one is a unenviable as the next...




The US isn't torturing anyone... but we have culled critical time sensitive information which has STOPPED ONGOING OPERATIONS BY THE TERRORISTS ENEMY WHICH WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE RESULTED IN THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT US CITIZENS BEING SLAUGHTERED... thus your position is absurd...




There is no valid justification for terrorism or the irrational notion of Islamic jihad as practiced by the terrorist.... and there is no end to invalid justifications; they're a dime a dozen and can be found anywhere... one of the first order, is the projection advanced by YOU and your TERRORIST PROMOTING COMRADES that the US is torturing the innocent... TERRORISTS. Your position establishes the absurdity that the TERRORISTS ARE THE VICTIMS...

Which is a position (Leftists inevitably running to defend the would-be "Rights" of Terrorists, that the Left would turn that mayhem around to revise history to reflect that it was the TERRORISTS who are the victims of the war which was certain to come as a result of the attack which had just occurred...) that I stated publically would soon come to pass, ON THE AFTERNOON OF 9-11-01... As Mahatten and the Pentagon smoldered... and I was roundly chastized for such, by the Leftist and their Moderate comrades on that board... "How could you SAY such a thing? These people deserve everything that they get and we'll NEVER defend them..." "Bullshit... We won't turn around twice and you'll be crying about how we're mistreating them and how I reaction to this attack is over the top and how they have rights too... You people are why this happened... The Terrorists know that we will soon go to work pummeling them across the world for this and that all they have to do is to survive to win... that YOU IDIOTS will win the war for them..." And they went NUTS!

Look around kids... What you're seeing on any of the DOZEN "Torture" threads in progress right now across this very board, is little more than the Ideological left desperately trying to make the MASS MURDERING TERRORISTS... to be the VICTIMS... That is ALL this is....

But... In the end, we (meaning Americans and specifically excluding the terrorist promoting, ANTI-American left...) don't give a flying FUCK if the terrorists find a 'justification' to recruit new jihadists... as we're going to kill every single one; and where we find one, we're going to squeeze that mass murdering POS for everyhting he's ever known and hunt his buddies down and kill them, except for the ones we think will serve as the best coffessor and we're gonna squeeze that individual for every THEY know and hunt their buddies down and kill them... and so on into perpetuity, until such time that one of two things happen... there comes a time when there are no more to hunt down and kill or they find a justification to stop...

Any questions Sis?




ROFLMNAO.... Leftists...

So the law is the moral imperative? The Law serves the interests of the law? Law for the sake of law?

STFU!

The law serves justice and justice serves the moral imperative and the moral imperative is the equal defense of valid and sustainable human rights... where a law fails to serve justice, that law is invalid and where one declares that any form of stress is ILLEGAL and thus precludes culling timesensitive information to prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocent human beings... that law does not serve the moral imperative of defending inncoent human life; thus does not serve justice; thus is not valid; thus it is the duty of the free sovereign to diregard that law where they are duty-bound to defend that moral imperative...

So now that you've been educated... Stop trolling and find something LESS SUBVERSIVE TO DO WITH YOUR TIME.

Well, I suppose I could help you pull your head out of your ass. But we'd need a full haz-mat team on hand to clean up the resulting torrent of shit that would come gushing forth.It would be rather like the flood from a breached waste holding pond at a factory pig farm.

SWEET! So you felt that completely fleeing the argument would somehow advance your position...

ROFL... HOW IN THE HELL DID YA FIGURE THAT ONE?

Oh well... not to worry; your CONCESSION is duly noted and summarily accepted...

 

[Iriemon]

Well, I suppose I could help you pull your head out of your ass. But we'd need a full haz-mat team on hand to clean up the resulting torrent of shit that would come gushing forth.It would be rather like the flood from a breached waste holding pond at a factory pig farm.

SWEET! So you felt that completely fleeing the argument would somehow advance your position...

ROFL... HOW IN THE HELL DID YA FIGURE THAT ONE?

Oh well... not to worry; your CONCESSION is duly noted and summarily accepted...

I didn't see any concession, even with the big red letters.

 

[wihosa]

The first American to ban torture was General George Washington. Following are two of his quotes in regards to torture;

&#8220;Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause&#8230; for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country.&#8221; - George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775

&#8216;Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,&#8217; he wrote. In all respects the prisoners were to be treated no worse than American soldiers; and in some respects, better. Through this approach, Washington sought to shame his British adversaries, and to demonstrate the moral superiority of the American cause.&#8221;

Those who think we should torture people for any reason are not patriots.

 

[Newby]

The first American to ban torture was General George Washington. Following are two of his quotes in regards to torture;

“Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause… for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country.” - George Washington, charge to the Northern Expeditionary Force, Sept. 14, 1775

‘Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,’ he wrote. In all respects the prisoners were to be treated no worse than American soldiers; and in some respects, better. Through this approach, Washington sought to shame his British adversaries, and to demonstrate the moral superiority of the American cause.”

Those who think we should torture people for any reason are not patriots.

Perhaps the British adversaries were capable of shame?

 

[wihosa]

"Perhaps the British adversaries were capable of shame? "

Your point?

 

[rayboyusmc]

there will be no active aggression in capturing the bad guys, thus no interrogations, thus no torture.

Yep, dickwad, that's why he had the pirates shot.

The right talks a good game, but it's mostly talk.

 

[Newby]

"Perhaps the British adversaries were capable of shame? "

Your point?

I think I made it.

 

[DiveCon]

there will be no active aggression in capturing the bad guys, thus no interrogations, thus no torture.

Yep, dickwad, that's why he had the pirates shot.

The right talks a good game, but it's mostly talk.

except he didnt actually "order" them shot
he ALLOWED it as a last resort, and the commander on the ship made the final call

 

[wihosa]

there will be no active aggression in capturing the bad guys, thus no interrogations, thus no torture.

Yep, dickwad, that's why he had the pirates shot.

The right talks a good game, but it's mostly talk.

except he didnt actually "order" them shot
he ALLOWED it as a last resort, and the commander on the ship made the final call

A distinction without a difference

 

[DiveCon]

Yep, dickwad, that's why he had the pirates shot.

The right talks a good game, but it's mostly talk.

except he didnt actually "order" them shot
he ALLOWED it as a last resort, and the commander on the ship made the final call

A distinction without a difference

there is a huge difference
but of course, your partisanship wont allow you to see it

 

[wihosa]

except he didnt actually "order" them shot
he ALLOWED it as a last resort, and the commander on the ship made the final call

A distinction without a difference

there is a huge difference
but of course, your partisanship wont allow you to see it

You are the one wearing ideological blinders.

 

[DiveCon]

A distinction without a difference

there is a huge difference
but of course, your partisanship wont allow you to see it

You are the one wearing ideological blinders.

you're the one that cant see what should be seen easily


the responsibility for the shooting was with the commander that gave the order
not POTUS
because POTUS said "only as a last resort if YOU believe the mans life was in danger"
that means if it had turned out bad, the commander would have been the one taking the responsibility

 

[Bullypulpit]

Well, I suppose I could help you pull your head out of your ass. But we'd need a full haz-mat team on hand to clean up the resulting torrent of shit that would come gushing forth.It would be rather like the flood from a breached waste holding pond at a factory pig farm.

SWEET! So you felt that completely fleeing the argument would somehow advance your position.

ROFL... HOW IN THE HELL DID YA FIGURE THAT ONE?

Oh well... not to worry; your CONCESSION is duly noted and summarily accepted...

And just what CONCESSION might that be? All I did was take you up on your suggestion that I engage in a "...LESS SUBVERSIVE..." activity. Although it is worthwhile to note that the promotion of torture does more to subvert the Constitution and the rule of law than anything I have discussed of late.

 

[eots]

this kids got the right stuff for a career as a military interrogator and they kids don't learn job skills in school...pfft

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RJimTHd9Z4[/ame]

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Yep, dickwad, that's why he had the pirates shot.

The right talks a good game, but it's mostly talk.

except he didnt actually "order" them shot
he ALLOWED it as a last resort, and the commander on the ship made the final call

A distinction without a difference

ROFLMNAO... Oh that is a snappy comeback.. and if there was no difference in that distinction you'd be in GREAT SHAPE.

Sadly, the difference is that an American would have ordered the Pirates to be destroyed... as a show of force, to offset any notions that hijacking US ships should be considered a 'decent business model'... proving that the liability of losing one's life, outwieghs ANY potential profit.

That's not what The Lord of the Idiots did... He ordered negotiations and a peaceful resolution, which would have only encoruaged more piracy. The Seals were the ones who provided the bottom line resolution: Fuck with us and we'll destroy your ass TODAY!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

SWEET! So you felt that completely fleeing the argument would somehow advance your position.

ROFL... HOW IN THE HELL DID YA FIGURE THAT ONE?

Oh well... not to worry; your CONCESSION is duly noted and summarily accepted...

And just what CONCESSION might that be? All I did was take you up on your suggestion that I engage in a "...LESS SUBVERSIVE..." activity. Although it is worthwhile to note that the promotion of torture does more to subvert the Constitution and the rule of law than anything I have discussed of late.

Damn sis... I've got to debate you AND EDUCATE your narrow ass?

When you ignore the argument... you concede the argument; just pretending it didn't happen doesn't actually make it go away... assuming it's my argument.

And FTR: where you just opt to continue to equate sound, measured interrogation techniques utilized to serve an immutable moral imperative against a viscious, determined secrative enemy... with sadistic torture used against innocent and helpless men and women... despite that thesis having been soundly refuted, through the use of incontestable, well reasoned, intellectually sound, logically valid argument and graphic demonstrations... is also a function of conceding the argument; where such is conclusively proven to be inappropriate and you continue to to operate on the old paradigm, you simply demonstrate an obtuse nature; which neither serves nor respects reason, thus does not meet the threshold required for reason discourse; thus you're position is worthy of being dismissed...

Golly... I hope that helps...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

this kids got the right stuff for a career as a military interrogator and they kids don't learn job skills in school...pfft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RJimTHd9Z4

ROFL... what ya have there is a punk... and one who, if he IS alive today, is alive because the women he attacked was not related to the right people...

To wit: my wife drives a school bus; which is her way of making 'a difference'... its how we ended up adopting our new daughter... and while it's unlikely; IF one of her kids did that to my wife... his last days breathing on this earth would be those he spent behind bars for that crime.

And his last hours on this earth would be spent begging for deaf mercy to spare him from the incomperhensible, nightmarish, hellish pain that I would be visting on his ass, in ways that you couldn't imagine if you took the rest of the night to consider; and "torture" would not BEGIN to describe the pain that I would be bringing down that piece of shit.

And that is based PURELY on me getting to him before one of my sons... which is frankly unlikely... in which case he'd just be beaten to a pulp and likely eviscerated right on the exact spot where he exited whatever vehicle picked him up from the lock-up.

And while there are many who believe that US Interrogation techniques are of a similar nature... they are first: WRONG and second; they set aside the distinction of context... This video shows an innocent senior woman, doing her job... who is brutally beaten by an diot who for whatever psychological manifestation, be it drug induced, hormonal, mommy didn't change his shitty diapers... or what have you; he should be charged, tried and executed for that assault...

In a perfect world, that Bus Driver would have drawn a side arm and shot the little prick, killing him, on the spot; and the fact that the people the US Military are interrogating are of the same insanity level as that asswipe... and don't get that kind of treatment, only reinforces the absurdity that their measured response is well below the threshold of what is reasonable, given they're directly involved in the slaughter of innocent people.. not unlike that bus driver...