CDZ Help me form an idea, it is time to tax internet sales

Toronado3800

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2009
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I work for a company with an online presence and a real brick and mortar stores. Maybe its my long commute past the empty malls but every day I'm amazed at the break given to our online arm by the lack of sales tax in most states.

Also in my opinion, the internet is here to stay. Commercial websites are cheap. Amazon and E-bay don't need tax break assistance to compete with your local stores.

So I think it is time online sales are taxed the same as in store sales.

The overall aspects of how to implement it escape me.

What tax rate to charge?
Letting companies pay taxes based on the states and counties they are registered in is a fight to the bottom. I propose charging a national average sales tax rate for the states the companies ship to. Ship to the lower 48, here is the percentage you charge. Ship to all 50, fine. I imagine a number around 8.5%?

Who to give the tax to?
I'm unsure on this one. As much as I frown upon virtual companies being able to venue shop, the tax collected can be given to the state the business is registered in. Making businesses register in 48 states is redundant. This would just be easy.

What about foreign businesses?

If Hong Kong fashion wants to sell purses in the U.S. via E-bay great. Just have them pay that same 8.5%. E-bay can collect it. How to collect if they are selling via their own website? I imagine Visa and Paypal are your easiest points of enforcement but I am not sure.

What other problems am I not seeing?
What to do about people selling streaming videos or live streaming?

This would end the unfair advantage our on-line arm (which I run) has vs brick and mortar stores. If people want to order Nightstands on Amazon then ship them back as they are too brown or whatever so be it. Helping subsidize the internet by having different rules for it is no longer needed though.
 
It would be virtually impossible to tax internet sales since sales tax is a statewide decision, the states decide what the sales tax is, and many states have no sales tax. so i can simply use TOR or some other software to disguise my IP address and make it look like im buying the item from whatever state or country I want. How would you also enforce a foreign company from selling something in the USA without sales tax?

However taxing all business' equally no matter where their sales are made (which is how its currently done) allows the sate to charge sales tax if the business maintains a physical presence in that state.

I should also add this not the first time a problem like this has occurred, when sears first started it maintained its business by sending mail order catalog's to rural areas.It would then mail them whatever they wanted form the catalog, this is basically the same thing.

you also have to factor in services like streaming videos why would someone start such a business in a state that charges sales tax? how would you decide which sales tax they paid? and again how would you enforce it?
 
I work for a company with an online presence and a real brick and mortar stores. Maybe its my long commute past the empty malls but every day I'm amazed at the break given to our online arm by the lack of sales tax in most states.

Also in my opinion, the internet is here to stay. Commercial websites are cheap. Amazon and E-bay don't need tax break assistance to compete with your local stores.

So I think it is time online sales are taxed the same as in store sales.

The overall aspects of how to implement it escape me.

What tax rate to charge?
Letting companies pay taxes based on the states and counties they are registered in is a fight to the bottom. I propose charging a national average sales tax rate for the states the companies ship to. Ship to the lower 48, here is the percentage you charge. Ship to all 50, fine. I imagine a number around 8.5%?

Who to give the tax to?
I'm unsure on this one. As much as I frown upon virtual companies being able to venue shop, the tax collected can be given to the state the business is registered in. Making businesses register in 48 states is redundant. This would just be easy.

What about foreign businesses?

If Hong Kong fashion wants to sell purses in the U.S. via E-bay great. Just have them pay that same 8.5%. E-bay can collect it. How to collect if they are selling via their own website? I imagine Visa and Paypal are your easiest points of enforcement but I am not sure.

What other problems am I not seeing?
What to do about people selling streaming videos or live streaming?

This would end the unfair advantage our on-line arm (which I run) has vs brick and mortar stores. If people want to order Nightstands on Amazon then ship them back as they are too brown or whatever so be it. Helping subsidize the internet by having different rules for it is no longer needed though.
I doubt you will gain much support for any form of tax but eventually all states will impose taxes on just about everything that is marketable except for possible food stuffs. It would be more advantageous to have a flat rate throughout the states with food excepted out. Most things are not absolutely required except for food. If you have more or make more you spend more so flat taxing makes more sense. Allowing visa or paypal type vendors to collect taxes would need to have a strict % fee applied as they like to suck off anything possible from what belongs to the peoples coffers.
 
Valid points.

Also I should add I do not want to raise taxes by taxing these previously tax free internet sales. I would like to lower the 8.5% average sales tax by .5% or whatever internet sales account for to keep people's effective sales tax the same.
 
Valid points.

Also I should add I do not want to raise taxes by taxing these previously tax free internet sales. I would like to lower the 8.5% average sales tax by .5% or whatever internet sales account for to keep people's effective sales tax the same.
theres alot of arguments i could make but it sounds like your saying we should tax new technology extra, just so you can keep our outdated business model afloat for, at best a few more years
 
I work for a company with an online presence and a real brick and mortar stores. Maybe its my long commute past the empty malls but every day I'm amazed at the break given to our online arm by the lack of sales tax in most states.

Also in my opinion, the internet is here to stay. Commercial websites are cheap. Amazon and E-bay don't need tax break assistance to compete with your local stores.

So I think it is time online sales are taxed the same as in store sales.

The overall aspects of how to implement it escape me.

What tax rate to charge?
Letting companies pay taxes based on the states and counties they are registered in is a fight to the bottom. I propose charging a national average sales tax rate for the states the companies ship to. Ship to the lower 48, here is the percentage you charge. Ship to all 50, fine. I imagine a number around 8.5%?

Who to give the tax to?
I'm unsure on this one. As much as I frown upon virtual companies being able to venue shop, the tax collected can be given to the state the business is registered in. Making businesses register in 48 states is redundant. This would just be easy.

What about foreign businesses?

If Hong Kong fashion wants to sell purses in the U.S. via E-bay great. Just have them pay that same 8.5%. E-bay can collect it. How to collect if they are selling via their own website? I imagine Visa and Paypal are your easiest points of enforcement but I am not sure.

What other problems am I not seeing?
What to do about people selling streaming videos or live streaming?

This would end the unfair advantage our on-line arm (which I run) has vs brick and mortar stores. If people want to order Nightstands on Amazon then ship them back as they are too brown or whatever so be it. Helping subsidize the internet by having different rules for it is no longer needed though.
You are quite unsophisticated when it comes to talking about sales taxes.

Many states are finally starting to tax internet sales.

The tax is always at the rate of your company's fulfillment center IF one is located in their state. If not then it is at the rate in effect for the ship-to address.

The rates are very easy to look up on the internet. Google is your friend.

The tax gets paid to the state tax authority, minus a small percentage that they let you keep for administrative purposes usually 1/2 of 1%.

Fairly cut and dried if you know what you are doing.
 
Valid points.

Also I should add I do not want to raise taxes by taxing these previously tax free internet sales. I would like to lower the 8.5% average sales tax by .5% or whatever internet sales account for to keep people's effective sales tax the same.
5 states do NOT have sales taxes --

- Oregon

- Delaware

- Alaska

- Montana

- New Hampshire

It spells "odamn" if you want a mnemonic to remember it by.
 
Valid points.

Also I should add I do not want to raise taxes by taxing these previously tax free internet sales. I would like to lower the 8.5% average sales tax by .5% or whatever internet sales account for to keep people's effective sales tax the same.
theres alot of arguments i could make but it sounds like your saying we should tax new technology extra, just so you can keep our outdated business model afloat for, at best a few more years

No, let me be more clear.

We should tax sales on the internet equally to sales on main street.

Currently we tax sales on main street more than sales on the internet.

Physical stores where you can go see product, which pay rent, which can serve you, are at a disadvantage to a guy in his grandmother's basement with an Amazon store. I signed up on E-Bay in Y2k. It is not new technology.
 
...let me be more clear.

We should tax sales on the internet equally to sales on main street.

Currently we tax sales on main street more than sales on the internet.

Physical stores where you can go see product, which pay rent, which can serve you, are at a disadvantage to a guy in his grandmother's basement with an Amazon store. I signed up on E-Bay in Y2k. It is not new technology.
Who is "we"?

You got a mouse in your pocket?

The states do as they please.

Some tax it.

Some do not.

You and your mouse have got nothing to do with it.
 
I work for a company with an online presence and a real brick and mortar stores. Maybe its my long commute past the empty malls but every day I'm amazed at the break given to our online arm by the lack of sales tax in most states.

Also in my opinion, the internet is here to stay. Commercial websites are cheap. Amazon and E-bay don't need tax break assistance to compete with your local stores.

So I think it is time online sales are taxed the same as in store sales.

The overall aspects of how to implement it escape me.

What tax rate to charge?
Letting companies pay taxes based on the states and counties they are registered in is a fight to the bottom. I propose charging a national average sales tax rate for the states the companies ship to. Ship to the lower 48, here is the percentage you charge. Ship to all 50, fine. I imagine a number around 8.5%?

Who to give the tax to?
I'm unsure on this one. As much as I frown upon virtual companies being able to venue shop, the tax collected can be given to the state the business is registered in. Making businesses register in 48 states is redundant. This would just be easy.

What about foreign businesses?

If Hong Kong fashion wants to sell purses in the U.S. via E-bay great. Just have them pay that same 8.5%. E-bay can collect it. How to collect if they are selling via their own website? I imagine Visa and Paypal are your easiest points of enforcement but I am not sure.

What other problems am I not seeing?
What to do about people selling streaming videos or live streaming?

This would end the unfair advantage our on-line arm (which I run) has vs brick and mortar stores. If people want to order Nightstands on Amazon then ship them back as they are too brown or whatever so be it. Helping subsidize the internet by having different rules for it is no longer needed though.
Tax is already being collected for online sales. The sale must be to a person that resides in the state of record for the business. You are responsible for collecting taxes when that occurs and paying them each quarter (or however your state does sales tax)

Sales made to individuals outside your state of record you do not collect taxes on, but the citizen is responsible for paying the sales tax of their home state. If you don't, there really isn't much way they can find out, but if they do, they can then come after you.

Regardless, the Government can keep its hands off of the Internet. They don't have a right to an income.
 
...let me be more clear.

We should tax sales on the internet equally to sales on main street.

Currently we tax sales on main street more than sales on the internet.

Physical stores where you can go see product, which pay rent, which can serve you, are at a disadvantage to a guy in his grandmother's basement with an Amazon store. I signed up on E-Bay in Y2k. It is not new technology.
Who is "we"?

You got a mouse in your pocket?

The states do as they please.

Some tax it.

Some do not.

You and your mouse have got nothing to do with it.
We as in Americans.

In other words, do you support welfare (lower taxes) for online businesses from out of state in competition with Autozone, Pop's Auto Parts or whoever opened up a store in your town?
 
[
Tax is already being collected for online sales. The sale must be to a person that resides in the state of record for the business. You are responsible for collecting taxes when that occurs and paying them each quarter (or however your state does sales tax)

Sales made to individuals outside your state of record you do not collect taxes on, but the citizen is responsible for paying the sales tax of their home state. If you don't, there really isn't much way they can find out, but if they do, they can then come after you.

Regardless, the Government can keep its hands off of the Internet. They don't have a right to an income.

It is a little more complicated that "your state of record" with some states. If you have any physical presence in their state whether or not that presence is related to the transaction or if a person who own or controls the business lives in your state or if you are part of a network (i.e. ebay and amazon and the like) that meet the other requirements can also be pathways into mandatory sales tax collection to persons in that state.
 
If sales tax is to be charged then it should be charged at the point of purchase not the point of delivery.
 
[
Tax is already being collected for online sales. The sale must be to a person that resides in the state of record for the business. You are responsible for collecting taxes when that occurs and paying them each quarter (or however your state does sales tax)

Sales made to individuals outside your state of record you do not collect taxes on, but the citizen is responsible for paying the sales tax of their home state. If you don't, there really isn't much way they can find out, but if they do, they can then come after you.

Regardless, the Government can keep its hands off of the Internet. They don't have a right to an income.

It is a little more complicated that "your state of record" with some states. If you have any physical presence in their state whether or not that presence is related to the transaction or if a person who own or controls the business lives in your state or if you are part of a network (i.e. ebay and amazon and the like) that meet the other requirements can also be pathways into mandatory sales tax collection to persons in that state.
This would apply to incorporation (as in LLC) as a foreign business registered in another state. If you are a sales associate with someone like Amazon, you are not registered or required to pay tax in a state in which Amazon has a presence.

In reality, States require their citizens to pay sales tax on items they purchase over the internet, regardless of the location of the business. But that is an honor system kind of thing and unless your doing thousands of dollars in purchases, they don't really care.
 
[
Tax is already being collected for online sales. The sale must be to a person that resides in the state of record for the business. You are responsible for collecting taxes when that occurs and paying them each quarter (or however your state does sales tax)

Sales made to individuals outside your state of record you do not collect taxes on, but the citizen is responsible for paying the sales tax of their home state. If you don't, there really isn't much way they can find out, but if they do, they can then come after you.

Regardless, the Government can keep its hands off of the Internet. They don't have a right to an income.

It is a little more complicated that "your state of record" with some states. If you have any physical presence in their state whether or not that presence is related to the transaction or if a person who own or controls the business lives in your state or if you are part of a network (i.e. ebay and amazon and the like) that meet the other requirements can also be pathways into mandatory sales tax collection to persons in that state.
This would apply to incorporation (as in LLC) as a foreign business registered in another state. If you are a sales associate with someone like Amazon, you are not registered or required to pay tax in a state in which Amazon has a presence.

In reality, States require their citizens to pay sales tax on items they purchase over the internet, regardless of the location of the business. But that is an honor system kind of thing and unless your doing thousands of dollars in purchases, they don't really care.
States do not have citizens. They have residents.

And the states can come after anyone in another state for selling to residents even if the person (individual, partnership, corporation, LLC (a type of corporation), LLP (a type of partnership), or nonprofit (a type of corporation)) has no presence in that state.

Washington State started this trend and now almost all of the states are also following it.
 
...let me be more clear.

We should tax sales on the internet equally to sales on main street.

Currently we tax sales on main street more than sales on the internet.

Physical stores where you can go see product, which pay rent, which can serve you, are at a disadvantage to a guy in his grandmother's basement with an Amazon store. I signed up on E-Bay in Y2k. It is not new technology.
Who is "we"?

You got a mouse in your pocket?

The states do as they please.

Some tax it.

Some do not.

You and your mouse have got nothing to do with it.
We as in Americans.

In other words, do you support welfare (lower taxes) for online businesses from out of state in competition with Autozone, Pop's Auto Parts or whoever opened up a store in your town?
Americans (your "we") don't tax sales.

The States tax sales.
 
[
Tax is already being collected for online sales. The sale must be to a person that resides in the state of record for the business. You are responsible for collecting taxes when that occurs and paying them each quarter (or however your state does sales tax)

Sales made to individuals outside your state of record you do not collect taxes on, but the citizen is responsible for paying the sales tax of their home state. If you don't, there really isn't much way they can find out, but if they do, they can then come after you.

Regardless, the Government can keep its hands off of the Internet. They don't have a right to an income.

It is a little more complicated that "your state of record" with some states. If you have any physical presence in their state whether or not that presence is related to the transaction or if a person who own or controls the business lives in your state or if you are part of a network (i.e. ebay and amazon and the like) that meet the other requirements can also be pathways into mandatory sales tax collection to persons in that state.
This would apply to incorporation (as in LLC) as a foreign business registered in another state. If you are a sales associate with someone like Amazon, you are not registered or required to pay tax in a state in which Amazon has a presence.

In reality, States require their citizens to pay sales tax on items they purchase over the internet, regardless of the location of the business. But that is an honor system kind of thing and unless your doing thousands of dollars in purchases, they don't really care.
States do not have citizens. They have residents.

And the states can come after anyone in another state for selling to residents even if the person (individual, partnership, corporation, LLC (a type of corporation), LLP (a type of partnership), or nonprofit (a type of corporation)) has no presence in that state.

Washington State started this trend and now almost all of the states are also following it.
States do have citizens. Semantic games don't go far with Me.

States cannot impose their laws on other citizens in other states. That is one of the reasons why we have a Federal government.

I am familiar with the types of business entities.
 
[
Tax is already being collected for online sales. The sale must be to a person that resides in the state of record for the business. You are responsible for collecting taxes when that occurs and paying them each quarter (or however your state does sales tax)

Sales made to individuals outside your state of record you do not collect taxes on, but the citizen is responsible for paying the sales tax of their home state. If you don't, there really isn't much way they can find out, but if they do, they can then come after you.

Regardless, the Government can keep its hands off of the Internet. They don't have a right to an income.

It is a little more complicated that "your state of record" with some states. If you have any physical presence in their state whether or not that presence is related to the transaction or if a person who own or controls the business lives in your state or if you are part of a network (i.e. ebay and amazon and the like) that meet the other requirements can also be pathways into mandatory sales tax collection to persons in that state.
This would apply to incorporation (as in LLC) as a foreign business registered in another state. If you are a sales associate with someone like Amazon, you are not registered or required to pay tax in a state in which Amazon has a presence.

In reality, States require their citizens to pay sales tax on items they purchase over the internet, regardless of the location of the business. But that is an honor system kind of thing and unless your doing thousands of dollars in purchases, they don't really care.
States do not have citizens. They have residents.

And the states can come after anyone in another state for selling to residents even if the person (individual, partnership, corporation, LLC (a type of corporation), LLP (a type of partnership), or nonprofit (a type of corporation)) has no presence in that state.

Washington State started this trend and now almost all of the states are also following it.
States do have citizens. Semantic games don't go far with Me.

States cannot impose their laws on other citizens in other states. That is one of the reasons why we have a Federal government.

I am familiar with the types of business entities.
Sorry boy but you are way behind the times.

States do impose their laws on nonresident businesses.

I tried to give you a current events update. But you are apparently deaf.

Wash. State stared doing this back in Y2K.

Now all the states do it.

And the SCOTUS has refused to overrule them by granting certiorari.
 
If you are a sales associate with someone like Amazon, you are not registered or required to pay tax in a state in which Amazon has a presence.

Depends on the business and your interest. A friend of mine's dad was a top tier partner in an international law firm and he had to file income taxes all over the place. A lot of it is pro forma though to make sure you are paying somewhere. The firm's tax attorneys more or less had to do all the taxes for people like him just to keep it all straight and the big wigs in compliance.
 

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