Help find an alternative to the old socialist healthcare system before its too late!

[Toronado3800]

Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, did not see it coming. When they were young a minuscule amount of our GDP was spent on health care. While a hospital / care facility in 1920 might take you in during your final days you would die quickly before costing anyone much money.

Fast forward to the 1970s and we start getting some pretty expensive treatments and some crazy passive socialist system where I pay for helpless poor people who can't afford the treatments.

Now we find the old Nixon era system breaking us. Now to fix the freeloader problem Obamacare is an active system which acknowledges the human failings of not getting insurance when you are young and healthy or when you make minimum wage at Walmat and promises to charge all of us somewhat fairly for it every day of our lives.

W/O resorting to hiring Jesus to walk the streets healing the lepers anyone have ideas? Shipping the sick and poor to Mexico won't work.

It will hurt my already depressed property values too much to have the sick lying on the street corners when they can't pay.

 

[Revere]

I'm not interested in chosing between statism and statism lite. That's the shit hole Europeans find themsevles in.

The people who left there came her to find liberty.

 

[Big Fitz]

How about we go back to capitalism, which we had pre 1930's running the market. You know, patient pay doctor or hosiptal directly? No employers involved, no government mandates, no insurance companies playing games.

It used to be that way. But ever since the New Deal government has had to be in charge and making sure people are 'taken care of'. They stick to standards and quality of care issues, and the anti-fraud consumer protection stuff, and we'll pay our doctors for services rendered.

 

[The T]

How about we go back to capitalism, which we had pre 1930's running the market. You know, patient pay doctor or hosiptal directly? No employers involved, no government mandates, no insurance companies playing games.

It used to be that way. But ever since the New Deal government has had to be in charge and making sure people are 'taken care of'. They stick to standards and quality of care issues, and the anti-fraud consumer protection stuff, and we'll pay our doctors for services rendered.

Agreed.

 

[Seawytch]

Why not have a government run insurance plan that I can choose to pay into? I call that collective bargaining with a larger pool of people. Why are capitalists so afraid of a little competition?

 

[The T]

Why not have a government run insurance plan that I can choose to pay into? I call that collective bargaining with a larger pool of people. Why are capitalists so afraid of a little competition?

Other than Military? What does Government run well?

You would have bureaucrats make your decisions for you? Seriously?

 

[mdn2000]

Why not have a government run insurance plan that I can choose to pay into? I call that collective bargaining with a larger pool of people. Why are capitalists so afraid of a little competition?

You should have exactly what you want, as long as I dont pay for a penny of it. I think everyone who wants this should put all the money in and we can just sit back and watch how great it is.

Here is a picture of how the government runs Detroit, you could most likely use this building.

I cannot buy the building because the government employees of the Detroit government are kind of, "under-educated", the records are so screwed up they have no idea who own the buildings, who owes what tax, so you should have your healthcare where it will cost you the less.

The government runs everything the best, you deserve to be the test, they should get one state and put you all in it and the rest of the nation can watch the government run experiment. It could be a MTV show, or Survivor, I would love to watch and the commercials could help pay for your cancer treatment.

Start your own government program that the public can opt out of, as in zero of our money and all yours.

 

[mdn2000]

Why not have a government run insurance plan that I can choose to pay into? I call that collective bargaining with a larger pool of people. Why are capitalists so afraid of a little competition?

Other than Military? What does Government run well?

You would have bureaucrats make your decisions for you? Seriously?

Building the confidence of China?

 

[Granny]

I don't think government should be involved in healthcare period. An absolute must is that we should demand serious tort reform. All these massive class-action lawsuits go a hell of a long way toward to wreaking havoc all over the whole economic spectrum - and the only people who get rich are the lawyers. Medical malpractice suits do the same thing. It's one thing to get real compensation for damages/injuries but millions upon millions of dollars in punitive compensation? I don't think so.

 

[The T]

why not have a government run insurance plan that i can choose to pay into? I call that collective bargaining with a larger pool of people. Why are capitalists so afraid of a little competition?

other than military? What does government run well?

You would have bureaucrats make your decisions for you? Seriously?

building the confidence of china?

+1

 

[Big Fitz]

Why not have a government run insurance plan that I can choose to pay into?

Beeeecause it's unconstitutional at the federal level? Not to mention unfair business practices (not governed by profit or good business decisions because it can use taxpayers to shore up mistakes) skews the market in bad ways.

I call that collective bargaining with a larger pool of people.

But if you don't make it mandatory, and engage in unfair business practices, you won't be able to get an advantage. The only government entities who can constitutionally do this, are states. Then even if you put into law protections from government abuse of taxes to fund this little experiment, it's still just as small a pool as private companies, if not smaller, once they can operate across state lines.

Lastly, the purpose of government is to not be a charity, nor a business. It is a government which means it is to defend our freedoms and rights, not provide for needs and wants. The purpose of government is to be there to be the arbiter of justice in disputes and protector from threats foreign and domestic because it is the personification of force that we, as free people give to them, to efficiently protect the rest of our rights. Once you start making them responsible for other things we should be doing for ourselves, our rights shrink and government grows tyrannical till we are the slaves and government is the master, not the other way around.

Why are capitalists so afraid of a little competition?

There is healthy and unhealthy competition. Capitalism, unchecked always leads to monopolies and trusts. That is why government is required to force that from happening like a safety device. It is why reforms done in the 1890's through the 1930's were so important. They broke up monopolies and trust that were making plutocratic potentates inside the US who were abusing their power and position to a glaringly obvious scale.

That said, the government itself IS a monopoly. It can by force of gun and prison set prices and markets. That is why our counstitution, when properly followed breaks up that power as well.

Consolidation of power and resources into too few hands as it was in the Guilded Age is an incredible danger. Since that time though, government has been gaining a consolidation of this power. We have given up so much of our personal freedom when we discovered that corporations could become dangerous, that government has mutated and grown into a cancerous monster with very dangerous teeth. Every nation that had/has national health care became, has become or is financially unstable or has collapsed into bankruptcy because of it's costs. When a company goes bankrupt, it is bought out or broken up and sold piecemeal. Nations... same thing can happen except more people die.

So no. The government cannot participate. It's job is to make sure everyone in the game plays by the same rules, equally. The conservative definition of fair. Not that everyone gets the same, but everyone played by the same rules.

 

[Big Black Dog]

The government lies about everything, or at the best, tell half-truths. I'm not interested in that balogna when it comes to my health care.

 

[mdn2000]

other than military? What does government run well?

You would have bureaucrats make your decisions for you? Seriously?

building the confidence of china?

+1

Giving jobs to morons who should be pumping gas.

 

[Big Fitz]

I don't think government should be involved in healthcare period. An absolute must is that we should demand serious tort reform. All these massive class-action lawsuits go a hell of a long way toward to wreaking havoc all over the whole economic spectrum - and the only people who get rich are the lawyers. Medical malpractice suits do the same thing. It's one thing to get real compensation for damages/injuries but millions upon millions of dollars in punitive compensation? I don't think so.

The Federal Government should be barred from all charitable, business and free market enterprise that is not explicitly provided for in the constitution, including ownership of any businesses. State governments, with their broad, undefined powers as provided for by the constitution are free to make those mistakes. People can also flee them when they go tits up from very bad economic decisions, and the other states should not be obligated to bail them out.

 

[The T]

I don't think government should be involved in healthcare period. An absolute must is that we should demand serious tort reform. All these massive class-action lawsuits go a hell of a long way toward to wreaking havoc all over the whole economic spectrum - and the only people who get rich are the lawyers. Medical malpractice suits do the same thing. It's one thing to get real compensation for damages/injuries but millions upon millions of dollars in punitive compensation? I don't think so.

The Federal Government should be barred from all charitable, business and free market enterprise that is not explicitly provided for in the constitution, including ownership of any businesses. State governments, with their broad, undefined powers as provided for by the constitution are free to make those mistakes. People can also flee them when they go tits up from very bad economic decisions, and the other states should not be obligated to bail them out.

Outstanding an on the mark!

 

[The T]

building the confidence of china?

+1

giving jobs to morons who should be pumping gas.

+10

 

[mdn2000]

+1

giving jobs to morons who should be pumping gas.

+10

giving young angry young religous moslem men from Mecca visas

 

[The T]

The government lies about everything, or at the best, tell half-truths. I'm not interested in that balogna when it comes to my health care.

Agreed. It is an individual responsibility. And it is a right in the sense that the individual has the right to make their own choices unabated by Government or anyone else.

Liberty is an all or nothing proposition...and with that liberty comes responsibility. We've gotten to the point where people have abdicated both, and deferred it to person(s) that don't care of wit of them except their own power.

I am perplexed as to why anyone would defer other than the fact they are ill educated, lazy, or both.

 

[Chris]

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. The French have the best system, and it is a combination of public and private insurance.

 

[Chris]

The government lies about everything, or at the best, tell half-truths. I'm not interested in that balogna when it comes to my health care.

Agreed. It is an individual responsibility. And it is a right in the sense that the individual has the right to make their own choices unabated by Government or anyone else.

Liberty is an all or nothing proposition...and with that liberty comes responsibility. We've gotten to the point where people have abdicated both, and deferred it to person(s) that don't care of wit of them except their own power.

I am perplexed as to why anyone would defer other than the fact they are ill educated, lazy, or both.

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.