Healthcare: There is no good reason why our healthcare dilemma should be political, yet it is...

[TNHarley]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

That's why Canada has shit doctors, long wait times, and rationed healthcare. When we want Canada's opinion we'll beat it out of them.

That's why Canadians live longer, healthier lives than Americans, get treated promptly and enjoy a higher quality of life at half the cost. We have wait times for elective surgery only, and you can travel to other areas with shorter waiting lists if you choose.

Americans have rationed health care but it's rationed by insurance companies with a profit motive for denying or limiting coverage. When my friend's daughter was sent for psychiatric care, she was in care for over a year. Not the 30 days your health insurance plans limit you to.

There's no preapprovals or copays, no pre-existing conditions to worry about, and no paperwork to complete for doctor's visits, lab tests, or hospital stays unless you choose to upgrade to a private or semi-private room.

alot of factors effect life expectancy that has nothing to do with healthcare. Considering yalls expectancy is only like 3 or 4 years older, i would say your point is completely irrelevant.

 

[Dragonlady]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

That's why Canada has shit doctors, long wait times, and rationed healthcare. When we want Canada's opinion we'll beat it out of them.

That's why Canadians live longer, healthier lives than Americans, get treated promptly and enjoy a higher quality of life at half the cost. We have wait times for elective surgery only, and you can travel to other areas with shorter waiting lists if you choose.

Americans have rationed health care but it's rationed by insurance companies with a profit motive for denying or limiting coverage. When my friend's daughter was sent for psychiatric care, she was in care for over a year. Not the 30 days your health insurance plans limit you to.

There's no preapprovals or copays, no pre-existing conditions to worry about, and no paperwork to complete for doctor's visits, lab tests, or hospital stays unless you choose to upgrade to a private or semi-private room.

alot of factors effect life expectancy that has nothing to do with healthcare. Considering yalls expectancy is only like 3 or 4 years older, i would say your point is completely irrelevant.

3 or 4 years is a lot, especially considering we're spending half the money Americans spend on healthcare. That's $4,500 less per person. $18,000 less for a family of 4.

Better outcomes, half the price. Works for me! Tell us again about how that free market thing will be so much better and cheaper.

 

[TNHarley]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

That's why Canada has shit doctors, long wait times, and rationed healthcare. When we want Canada's opinion we'll beat it out of them.

That's why Canadians live longer, healthier lives than Americans, get treated promptly and enjoy a higher quality of life at half the cost. We have wait times for elective surgery only, and you can travel to other areas with shorter waiting lists if you choose.

Americans have rationed health care but it's rationed by insurance companies with a profit motive for denying or limiting coverage. When my friend's daughter was sent for psychiatric care, she was in care for over a year. Not the 30 days your health insurance plans limit you to.

There's no preapprovals or copays, no pre-existing conditions to worry about, and no paperwork to complete for doctor's visits, lab tests, or hospital stays unless you choose to upgrade to a private or semi-private room.

alot of factors effect life expectancy that has nothing to do with healthcare. Considering yalls expectancy is only like 3 or 4 years older, i would say your point is completely irrelevant.

3 or 4 years is a lot, especially considering we're spending half the money Americans spend on healthcare. That's $4,500 less per person. $18,000 less for a family of 4.

Better outcomes, half the price. Works for me! Tell us again about how that free market thing will be so much better and cheaper.

You are still ignoring other factors. Your post is nothing more than tunnel vision. Thats all i was saying.

 

[BluesLegend]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

That's why Canada has shit doctors, long wait times, and rationed healthcare. When we want Canada's opinion we'll beat it out of them.

That's why Canadians live longer, healthier lives than Americans, get treated promptly and enjoy a higher quality of life at half the cost. We have wait times for elective surgery only, and you can travel to other areas with shorter waiting lists if you choose.

Americans have rationed health care but it's rationed by insurance companies with a profit motive for denying or limiting coverage. When my friend's daughter was sent for psychiatric care, she was in care for over a year. Not the 30 days your health insurance plans limit you to.

There's no preapprovals or copays, no pre-existing conditions to worry about, and no paperwork to complete for doctor's visits, lab tests, or hospital stays unless you choose to upgrade to a private or semi-private room.

Canuck please, you people have a HUGE problem with alcohol abuse and rape, in comparison to the USA way bigger why don't you focus on your own problems in your own country.

 

[Anathema]

common defence AND the general welfare. How does the COTUS guarantee individuals freedom of speech or the right to own guns?

By referring to the people in the language of the amwndments rsther thsn to the nstion.

 

[TNHarley]

common defence AND the general welfare. How does the COTUS guarantee individuals freedom of speech or the right to own guns?

By referring to the people in the language of the amwndments rsther thsn to the nstion.

the part about free speech isnt specific to the people like the second is.

 

[Anathema]

the part about free speech isnt specific to the people like the second is.

That's because the amendment doesn't actually give us Freedom of speech. It simply restrains the Congress from making laws to impede free speech.

 

[TNHarley]

the part about free speech isnt specific to the people like the second is.

That's because the amendment doesn't actually give us Freedom of speech. It simply restrains the Congress from making laws to impede free speech.

You make sense

 

[IsaacNewton]

​

Say what you will about O-care, Graham-Cassidy, and all the rest of the elements of healthcare in the U.S. The simple fact is that we citizens have allowed to become political what really should not at all be political.

The solution to healthcare should be very simple:

• To health insurers --> Cover everything or don't offer insurance.
• To providers --> Charge prices people can pay or do something else for a living.
• To care recipients --> Let professionals do their jobs and stop looking for ways to find fault when they are doing the best they can to heal your sick ass.

There are some 280M voting age adults in the U.S. and why they have allowed insurance companies to co-opt and control the practice and delivery of healthcare in this country is, frankly, a travesty. If health insurers cannot profitably insure people without all the "strings attached," fine, let them exist the health insurance business. What will happen when they do? Providers will be left with two choices: lower their fees or provide services only to people who can afford the high fees. The latter will mean a lot of health care providers will have to find other forms of employment because there just aren't enough rich folks to sustain the quantity of highly paid medical professionals and medical industry device producers that are currently in existence. Now may sound horrible, but it's really not. The vast majority of those people are multitalented; there are other gainful means of employment they can pursue.

Now why do I say the above? Because it's absurd that we spend so much more than any other nation on Earth and yet our health outcomes aren't any better.

​

Excellent point, it should not be a political issue at all. The only reason it is is because people with money to spend give it to people in government to keep insurance companies in control of healthcare.

It is a travesty, no doubt.

 

[Care4all]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

 

[TNHarley]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

 

[Care4all]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

so you say, with no meat behind it....

 

[TNHarley]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

so you say, with no meat behind it....

Lol

 

[Care4all]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

so you say, with no meat behind it....

Lol

it's just that the things that are not constitutional, we should and should have in the past, taken them to court, and gotten a ruling on them.... otherwise, they stay as 'constitutional'.... the Republicans in the States, started for the first time, challenging Obama in court, and some things they won on, and some things they didn't, but at least on these constitutionally questionable things....we got an answer...

Obama did things that both Reagan and Bush 1 did through executive order, but no one challenged Reagan and Bush's executive orders on immigration when they did it....so, it was presumed constitutional....Obama finally was the one challenged on them.....3 decades nearly passed....

I'd like to see challenges done quicker.

 

[2aguy]

​

Say what you will about O-care, Graham-Cassidy, and all the rest of the elements of healthcare in the U.S. The simple fact is that we citizens have allowed to become political what really should not at all be political.

The solution to healthcare should be very simple:

• To health insurers --> Cover everything or don't offer insurance.
• To providers --> Charge prices people can pay or do something else for a living.
• To care recipients --> Let professionals do their jobs and stop looking for ways to find fault when they are doing the best they can to heal your sick ass.

There are some 280M voting age adults in the U.S. and why they have allowed insurance companies to co-opt and control the practice and delivery of healthcare in this country is, frankly, a travesty. If health insurers cannot profitably insure people without all the "strings attached," fine, let them exist the health insurance business. What will happen when they do? Providers will be left with two choices: lower their fees or provide services only to people who can afford the high fees. The latter will mean a lot of health care providers will have to find other forms of employment because there just aren't enough rich folks to sustain the quantity of highly paid medical professionals and medical industry device producers that are currently in existence. Now may sound horrible, but it's really not. The vast majority of those people are multitalented; there are other gainful means of employment they can pursue.

Now why do I say the above? Because it's absurd that we spend so much more than any other nation on Earth and yet our health outcomes aren't any better.

​

Why wouldn't it be political...there is money and power involved.

And the rest of the countries with national healthcare....their systems are collapsing, they can't afford them.

 

[2aguy]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

What is and is not constitutional in the U.S. is whatever the SCOTUS says it is. And what has the SCOTUS had to say about healthcare regulation?

• The health care law is constitutional - SCOTUSblog
  
• The mandate is constitutional: In Plain English - SCOTUSblog
  
• The U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause, the Supreme Court, and Public Health

No.....the Supreme Court has assumed that power, a power it was never meant to have. We need to change the system so that 9, politically apointed lawyers can't dictate what is or isn't Constitutional for 320 million people...

 

[TNHarley]

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

so you say, with no meat behind it....

Lol

it's just that the things that are not constitutional, we should and should have in the past, taken them to court, and gotten a ruling on them.... otherwise, they stay as 'constitutional'.... the Republicans in the States, started for the first time, challenging Obama in court, and some things they won on, and some things they didn't, but at least on these constitutionally questionable things....we got an answer...

Obama did things that both Reagan and Bush 1 did through executive order, but no one challenged Reagan and Bush's executive orders on immigration when they did it....so, it was presumed constitutional....Obama finally was the one challenged on them.....3 decades nearly passed....

I'd like to see challenges done quicker.

Nobody wants to challenge the SC except for a couple federal judges every once in a while
It's complete bullshit

 

[Care4all]

hmmm, don't you think someone, anyone, would have sued and the supreme court would have decided it was unconstitutional over the decades or century health care has been regulated?

I call bull crud!

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

so you say, with no meat behind it....

Lol

it's just that the things that are not constitutional, we should and should have in the past, taken them to court, and gotten a ruling on them.... otherwise, they stay as 'constitutional'.... the Republicans in the States, started for the first time, challenging Obama in court, and some things they won on, and some things they didn't, but at least on these constitutionally questionable things....we got an answer...

Obama did things that both Reagan and Bush 1 did through executive order, but no one challenged Reagan and Bush's executive orders on immigration when they did it....so, it was presumed constitutional....Obama finally was the one challenged on them.....3 decades nearly passed....

I'd like to see challenges done quicker.

Nobody wants to challenge the SC except for a couple federal judges every once in a while
It's complete bullshit

The Supreme Court has... over the years, challenged themselves....and reversed their own SC decisions thru new precedence....

we couldn't have a better govt system.... even when we mess up, we eventually have a system of govt, that allows corrections....

I think we are a little slow in our corrections, but at least they happen and can happen.

 

[TNHarley]

Lol please.
3/4 of our federal govt is unconstitutional

so you say, with no meat behind it....

Lol

it's just that the things that are not constitutional, we should and should have in the past, taken them to court, and gotten a ruling on them.... otherwise, they stay as 'constitutional'.... the Republicans in the States, started for the first time, challenging Obama in court, and some things they won on, and some things they didn't, but at least on these constitutionally questionable things....we got an answer...

Obama did things that both Reagan and Bush 1 did through executive order, but no one challenged Reagan and Bush's executive orders on immigration when they did it....so, it was presumed constitutional....Obama finally was the one challenged on them.....3 decades nearly passed....

I'd like to see challenges done quicker.

Nobody wants to challenge the SC except for a couple federal judges every once in a while
It's complete bullshit

The Supreme Court has... over the years, challenged themselves....and reversed their own SC decisions thru new precedence....

we couldn't have a better govt system.... even when we mess up, we eventually have a system of govt, that allows corrections....

I think we are a little slow in our corrections, but at least they happen and can happen.

Political activism

 

[Freewill]

​

Say what you will about O-care, Graham-Cassidy, and all the rest of the elements of healthcare in the U.S. The simple fact is that we citizens have allowed to become political what really should not at all be political.

The solution to healthcare should be very simple:

• To health insurers --> Cover everything or don't offer insurance.
• To providers --> Charge prices people can pay or do something else for a living.
• To care recipients --> Let professionals do their jobs and stop looking for ways to find fault when they are doing the best they can to heal your sick ass.

There are some 280M voting age adults in the U.S. and why they have allowed insurance companies to co-opt and control the practice and delivery of healthcare in this country is, frankly, a travesty. If health insurers cannot profitably insure people without all the "strings attached," fine, let them exist the health insurance business. What will happen when they do? Providers will be left with two choices: lower their fees or provide services only to people who can afford the high fees. The latter will mean a lot of health care providers will have to find other forms of employment because there just aren't enough rich folks to sustain the quantity of highly paid medical professionals and medical industry device producers that are currently in existence. Now may sound horrible, but it's really not. The vast majority of those people are multitalented; there are other gainful means of employment they can pursue.

Now why do I say the above? Because it's absurd that we spend so much more than any other nation on Earth and yet our health outcomes aren't any better.

​

What screws the complaint about the system is that 80 percent of the people actually make little decisions about their HC. It is done for them through their employment. So even though they pay out the nose for inferior product they are happy in their little world. And, people don't usually like change. Change is hard.

I am for a Medicare type plan 80/20. Those with preconditions and who use the system more pay more, that would seem fair. But no matter what anyone pays it should not bankrupt them. Nor should it prevent healthcare workers from making a livable wage.