Healthcare: There is no good reason why our healthcare dilemma should be political, yet it is...

[bendog]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

What is and is not constitutional in the U.S. is whatever the SCOTUS says it is. And what has the SCOTUS had to say about healthcare regulation?

• The health care law is constitutional - SCOTUSblog
  
• The mandate is constitutional: In Plain English - SCOTUSblog
  
• The U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause, the Supreme Court, and Public Health

Yes, the SCOTUS has in effect amended the constitution with there ruling rather than upholding the actual law of the constitution for many years.

So the RW fake news sites tell you. But in fact, colonists were taxed if they didn't but specified firearms for milita duty

Reality bites, TN. But it doesn't mean Obamacare is a good idea. It's beyond constitutional, and the vast maj of actual legal scholars agree.

 

[Anathema]

I think ocare was unconstitutional in its original form.
I do, however, think single payer could be constitutional if it is applied EQUALLY to the entire country.
One thing the general welfare cause could be used correctly for.

Then you have no clue what General Welfare means. The 17 items listed after that clause DEFINE what General Welfare and Common Defense means. Healthcare is nowhere in there. Therefore its not a Federal issue.

 

[TNHarley]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

What is and is not constitutional in the U.S. is whatever the SCOTUS says it is. And what has the SCOTUS had to say about healthcare regulation?

• The health care law is constitutional - SCOTUSblog
  
• The mandate is constitutional: In Plain English - SCOTUSblog
  
• The U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause, the Supreme Court, and Public Health

Yes, the SCOTUS has in effect amended the constitution with there ruling rather than upholding the actual law of the constitution for many years.

So the RW fake news sites tell you. But in fact, colonists were taxed if they didn't but specified firearms for milita duty

Reality bites, TN. But it doesn't mean Obamacare is a good idea. It's beyond constitutional, and the vast maj of actual legal scholars agree.

its beyond constitutional? lol

 

[TNHarley]

I think ocare was unconstitutional in its original form.
I do, however, think single payer could be constitutional if it is applied EQUALLY to the entire country.
One thing the general welfare cause could be used correctly for.

Then you have no clue what General Welfare means. The 17 items listed after that clause DEFINE what General Welfare and Common Defense means. Healthcare us nowhere in there. Therefore its not a Federal issue.

• To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

[Dragonlady]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

 

[g5000]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-healthcare-comparison-20170715-htmlstory.html
​

Can you show me which of those countries have seen health care costs go down during any time in the last, say, four decades?

 

[g5000]

As you can see below, the cost of health care as a percent of GDP has risen in all the socialized medicine countries, and in the US.

So socialized medicine is not the cure to rising health care costs. Health care is eating a larger and larger and larger part of every industrialized country's economy over time. Not just the US.

 

[BluesLegend]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

That's why Canada has shit doctors, long wait times, and rationed healthcare. When we want Canada's opinion we'll beat it out of them.

 

[Anathema]

• To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Read the bolded section above. The Welfare and Defense of the COUNTRY, not the individual citizens. The other seventeen items go on to define what General Welfare and Common of the United States means.

 

[g5000]

I would bet hard money the reason our health care costs eat up more of our economy than the other countries is because we spend a shit ton more money keeping our elderly alive for a few more months than other countries do. I bet that is a gigantic disproportionate percentage of the amount of money we spend on health care.

This can easily be mitigated by having everyone put their end of life care preferences in writing.

When Congressman Earl Blumenauer tried to get such counseling sessions insured in ObamaCare, Sarah Palin and the Great Tard Herd called it "death panels".

What a stupidly self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head of the American taxpayer that dumb c*nt is!

 

[Darkwind]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

Unethical governments spend money on healthcare. The American culture is independence from government and authority. It is an unethical government that has driven the cost of healthcare up and out of reach of common American that it is borderline criminal.

As for capitalist interests, I'd rather capitalist interests reign than allowing communist, socialist, or fascist interests reign.

 

[Reasonable]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

The Constitution says nothing about universal HC liar..

 

[Reasonable]

The republicans and Trump ar trying to jam thru their newest shit sandwich healthcare bill without it being scored by the CBO.


The only thing funny about this is that Trump doesn't even understand the bill.
No surprise there.

Trump Doesn't Seem To Know What's In The Health Care Bill He Wants To Pass | HuffPost

 

[TNHarley]

• To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Read the bolded section above. The Welfare and Defense of the COUNTRY, not the individual citizens. The other seventeen items go on to define what General Welfare and Common of the United States means.

but if it applied to individuals equallyto ALL, it wouldnt be for the individual. It would be "general"

 

[TNHarley]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

federal government regulating healthcare is also unconstitutional here. The biggest reason why and you fail to mention it

The Constitution says nothing about universal HC liar..

No shit shirlock

 

[Anathema]

but if it applied to individuals equallyto ALL, it wouldnt be for the individual. It would be "general"

The US Constitution is very clear in differentiating between The People (citizens) the States (individual states) and the United States (The entity and government of the nation).

If your interpretation is correct, then when does my US Marine show up to provide me personally with my Common Defense and where the fuck was the one assigned to my wife when she was sexually assaulted in her youth?

The United States is an entity unto itself as much as it is a collection of citizens. Article I, Section VIII refers to that entity, not to individuals. Get that through your head.

 

[TNHarley]

but if it applied to individuals equallyto ALL, it wouldnt be for the individual. It would be "general"

The US Constitution is very clear in differentiating between The People (citizens) the States (individual states) and the United States (The entity and government of the nation).

If your interpretation is correct, then when does my US Marine show up to provide me personally with my Common Defense and where the fuck was the one assigned to my wife when she was sexually assaulted in her youth?

The United States is an entity unto itself as much as it is a collection of citizens. Article I, Section VIII refers to that entity, not to individuals. Get that through your head.

common defence AND the general welfare.
How does the COTUS guarantee individuals freedom of speech or the right to own guns?

 

[usmbguest5318]

​

Can you show me which of those countries have seen health care costs go down during any time in the last, say, four decades?

You clearly have access to the Internet. You can find that out for yourself.

 

[Dragonlady]

View attachment 150505

If it's a tax then I'm sending all my health care payments to the IRS and the health care facilities can all file for a refund.

*****CHUCKLE*****

And that's called "Single Payer". It's how we do it in Canada. We send our tax dollars to Revenue Canada, our employers send their health care tax contributions to Rev Canada, and Rev Canada sends that money to the provinces. Doctors, hospitals, clinics and labs bill their province and the province pays them.

That's why Canada has shit doctors, long wait times, and rationed healthcare. When we want Canada's opinion we'll beat it out of them.

That's why Canadians live longer, healthier lives than Americans, get treated promptly and enjoy a higher quality of life at half the cost. We have wait times for elective surgery only, and you can travel to other areas with shorter waiting lists if you choose.

Americans have rationed health care but it's rationed by insurance companies with a profit motive for denying or limiting coverage. When my friend's daughter was sent for psychiatric care, she was in care for over a year. Not the 30 days your health insurance plans limit you to.

There's no preapprovals or copays, no pre-existing conditions to worry about, and no paperwork to complete for doctor's visits, lab tests, or hospital stays unless you choose to upgrade to a private or semi-private room.

 

[Dragonlady]

Health care is political because ethical governments spend public money on providing it. For all its size and wealth, the USA is behind European Union countries because capitalist interests control the Federal Government and the politicians prefer to wash their hands of the responsibility and leave it up to the free market and profit motive to do the job.

Unethical governments spend money on healthcare. The American culture is independence from government and authority. It is an unethical government that has driven the cost of healthcare up and out of reach of common American that it is borderline criminal.

As for capitalist interests, I'd rather capitalist interests reign than allowing communist, socialist, or fascist interests reign.

It is not government that has driven up the cost of healthcare, it's technology. You have nuclear medicine, magnetic imagining, ultrasounds, all costing hundreds of thousand of dollars. Delicate microscopic surgeries are now possible.

As a teenager in the 1960's, my nephew was born at 36 weeks, and it was touch and go whether the little guy would live. We prayed and prayed hard for his survival. Today, such babies seldom die and babies have survived at 24 weeks of gestation.

But the costs of performing medical miracles is very steep. When the Constitution was written, it wasn't cheaper to buy a house than to go to the hospital. The average life expectancy in 1776 was 35 years.

So the Founding Fathers can be forgiven for not having the foresight to envision what would happen in a nation with an average life expectancy of nearly 75 years, and where health problems are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the US.