Health Care as a Human Right

[Taomon]

Yet the things you say leads one to that conclusion. And you already have the right to access to adequate health care - you just have to pay for it.

The fact that you can't pay for it is why you fall back on the class argument....despite the fact you are a member of the richest working class in the history of the world, a typical 2car, 2TV, 2cell phone family, (and nobody really in need sits for 4+ hours in emergency) you think you are poor and downtrodden. Boohoo.

The things I say leads you to believe, that is not a universal phenomena. You think that about me because you cannot think outside of your limited scope. Anything that even remotely sounds socialistic you automatically deem as such and apply false statements to. I pity you for that. We as a society have certain social responsibilities. That is a fact.

I never claimed to be poor. In fact, I was not complaining for me at all. I was complaining for the millions of lower middle class people who cannot afford to survive - let alone buy insurance. As well to do as I am, I do not have 2 cars. Television is a luxury that I can afford. My cell phone is a business expense. I am moving into the upper middle class area financially. And there are many more who cannot.

When I worked at Blue Cross (and I don't anymore), I was at the lowest end of the working class scale. Not poor enough for assistance and not earning enough to pay for food, rent and clothes for my kids. There are plenty of people in that boat. And I am speaking for them. You talk as though you are comfortable and everyone doesn't matter.

If you are shot there is nothing in the Constitution that says anybody must save you. You do not have a "right" to medical care. As God-fearing people, however, we believe it is a moral duty for others to help you if they can….but now we are getting into "religion" and we wouldn't want that to happen, would we? Although you might have a new respect for pro-lifers when seculars take over and decide not to give you medical care because you're not worth it...too old, too sick, whatever...all for the greater good, of course.

Actually, it may not be in the Constitution...but if I am shot and no one does anything to help me, they have broken the law. I do have a right to necessary medical care. It comes at a cost (premiums, bills & credit collection calls). I think you misjudge people too quickly and too harshly. Do you really think someone who is pro-choice would decide not to give me medical care for some petty reason? If so, then you do not understand the pro-choice position and are making assumptions that you cannot prove.

If you cannot afford the price, you either need to make more money or vote for change. Change can be for either more government involvement or less. I think it's already been proven that more is not the best route.

If you have a family of 4 and only earn slightly above minimum wage, that does not mean you deserve anything. What it really means is you are an irresponsible person for having a family when you cannot afford one. Why should I pay for your stupid mistakes? It means you better get two jobs or else learn how to make more money per hour.

Wow, that is the coldest thing I ever heard someone say. Do you really believe people wake up and say "hmm, I want to let my kids go hungry today." Or maybe love is not allowed to be in this equation? So you fall in love, get married and have a kid or two. That is wrong if you are poor and lower class because you cannot afford it?

That is one of the things wrong about our society. Human emotion is only allowed to be used when guiding the masses through an election. As a matter of public policy, emotion is not allowed. Love is not allowed. Family issues are not allowed.

Why should you pay for some one's stupid mistakes? One, having a child is not a stupid mistake. And two, we are a society and we have a social responsibility towards each other. You will be taxed no matter what. Would you rather the money go to Bureaucrats, military quagmires or social programs that help working class people who are struggling?

Personally, I would want to see price controls and subsidies that drive the cost of living down. Food, shelter, healthcare, education, utilities, and clothing should never be unattainable. And it would not matter if you made minimum wage if the cost of living were lower. Greed and apathy drive this and you exemplified it in your post.

This free market competition works real well for the most part. Just because there are some glitches does not mean we need to scrap the whole idea. Greed is a factor found in any economic system. Competition is what keeps greed under control.

Some glitches? Please show some examples of how competition has kept greed under control. Healthcare is not one of them.

Regulation to enforce price fixing is socialism. Show me a true socialist system that has worked so well you that you've had dreams of living under it….like the once great USSR? How about Maoist style? I'm sure you'd love the health care system in Cuba. Hey, Venezuela is going socialist today….quick, change countries! Socialism and evil seem to go together. Why is it people cannot learn from history?

See, this is what I am talking about. You cannot see the forest for the trees. I never said I wanted to live under corrupt regimes like those you mention here. I do not want to see America become a socialist state. But it requires a little socialism to enforce social responsibility. And the business world has spent trillions of dollars on (since 1945) to drive any notion of that out of our heads. You must be a star pupil.

Socialism isn't evil. The problem with the socialist regimes you mention is one factor; human greed. Those systems were corrupted by human greed. Greed for money and power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So you can only consider solutions that fit the frame of capitalism, otherwise it is socialist and therefore evil? C'mon, you must be smarter than that eagle. Price controls would make healthcare (and other necessary commodities) affordable for the lower working classes.

And let's face it, the following necessities are considered a commodity in our country: Food, shelter, healthcare, clothing, utilities (like heat and electricity) and education. Do you believe that the necessities of life should be a commodity? How do you feel about homeless people? Are they just lazy & irresponsible? Are all homeless people easily generalized like that? Have you ever seen or spoke to a homeless person? The route word there is person.

Looks like Romney's government decree is not working. Forced car insurance doesn't work either. Seems every time I'm hit it's by some slacker without insurance.

Slacker or lower working class person who cannot afford it?

Where'd you get the idea I've been boasting about anything?

I meant posting. And socialism can be part of the solution. Don't be so narrow minded about this brother.

1. Reform the tax treatment of health care expenses - to level the playing field & lower costs.

That only works for upper middle class families. Lower middle class families (of which, I was one for many years) usually have bills to catch up on or a big expense (like a new-used car, medical/dental needs, etc) when they get their taxes. It doesn't really solve anything and takes tax money away from social programs that we need.

2. Promote portable, nationwide insurance - to help provide lower cost insurance options.

Can you say MONOPOLY?

3. Reduce barriers to entry - to help increase the supply of doctors, nurses, etc.

Can you guarantee a high standard of knowledge and capability from those reduce barrier doctors & nurses? Education is a factor and some changes there could actually increase the amount of available doctors & nurses.

4. Address head-on the costs of treating the chronically ill - provide direct subsidies to purchase insurance.

So free healthcare for chronically ill? I can dig that. If we are capable of working we should want to help those who cannot. But we lack solidarity in this country (again, proven by your posts).

5. Allow market forces to work - put the consumers in charge.

We already know that model does not work. The people in charge of major corporations do not want to relinquish that power.

 

[Taomon]

Sorry but not gonna play. Do your own google, once again it is public record, easily found and if you do the search you will read what you find. If I provide links you will just ignore them.

What I find funny is your absolute ignorance on so many issues. what are you? 18?

I am not ignorant. I am 40 years old. I am telling you to put up or shut up. You cannot prove what you said about John Edwards. ou know it and I know it. And now, everyone here knows it.

Nice try old man. Go back to Rush Limbaugh.

 

[jreeves]

Stolen? How so? explain.

The top 50% wage earners in this country pay 97% of the federal income taxes that is way more than their fair share. Also, the federal government takes taxes collected and gives it to other's.
steal·ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force:

 

[CharlestonChad]

The top 50% wage earners in this country pay 97% of the federal income taxes that is way more than their fair share. Also, the federal government takes taxes collected and gives it to other's.
steal·ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force:

Didn't jesus tell a story about a poor woman going to give her taxes at a temple, and she put one coin in the tray and all the rich laughed, saying "look at that poor woman, she cannot even afford to give more than one coin", and jesus said "that woman may have given one coin, but that one coin was more generous than all of your donations."

 

[Gunny]

If the people get tired of having 30 percent of their paychecks stolen maybe they will revolt against the government.

No shit. I'm imaging how much healthcare insurance I can afford if that 30% was used for MY healthcare instead of providing it for someone who doesn't earn theirs.

 

[mattskramer]

Didn't jesus tell a story about a poor woman going to give her taxes at a temple, and she put one coin in the tray and all the rich laughed, saying "look at that poor woman, she cannot even afford to give more than one coin", and jesus said "that woman may have given one coin, but that one coin was more generous than all of your donations."

You are debating the old argument about whether we should have a flat tax or a graduated tax.

A person earning $20,000 a year can’t afford to give as much as can someone earning $1000000. Therefore, one notion is that the one earning $1000000 should be required to pay a higher percentage of his income (since he can easily afford to do so). That is the graduated income tax.

There is the other notion that says that it is unfair to have the higher wage earner pay a higher percentage of his income. We should all pay the same percentage. Yet what percentage should the very poor pay? There should be a cut-off because one who is barely “making ends meet” might not even be able to live on what is left over after “Uncle Sam” takes 5 percent.

We have not even touched on the argument of consumption tax versus income tax yet but I will. A consumption tax hurts the poor. The rich can buy the basic necessities (and pay the consumption tax) and have money left over. The poor might not be able to afford the basic necessities if the consumption tax placed on those goods is high.

The debate rages on.

 

[Gunny]

Didn't jesus tell a story about a poor woman going to give her taxes at a temple, and she put one coin in the tray and all the rich laughed, saying "look at that poor woman, she cannot even afford to give more than one coin", and jesus said "that woman may have given one coin, but that one coin was more generous than all of your donations."

She was not compelled to give. She gave of her own free will.

 

[jreeves]

Didn't jesus tell a story about a poor woman going to give her taxes at a temple, and she put one coin in the tray and all the rich laughed, saying "look at that poor woman, she cannot even afford to give more than one coin", and jesus said "that woman may have given one coin, but that one coin was more generous than all of your donations."

 

[jreeves]

funny

 

[CharlestonChad]

Question: "What does the Bible say about paying taxes?"

Answer: In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question, "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, sales tax, property tax, personal property tax, capital gains tax - the list could go on and on. Statistics show that in the United States, April 15th, tax day, is one of the most stressful days of the year. The Internal Revenue Service is probably the most despised government organization. Similarly, tax collectors were not thought highly of in Bible times (Matthew 11:19; 21:31-32; Luke 3:12-13).

As much as we hate taxes, as much as the tax system is corrupt and unfair, as much as there are far better things our money could go towards - the Bible commands, yes commands us to pay our taxes. Romans 13:1-7 makes it clear that we are to submit ourselves to the government. The only instance in which we are allowed to disobey the government is when it tells us to do something the Bible forbids. The Bible does not forbid paying taxes. In fact, the Bible encourages us to pay taxes. Therefore, we must submit to God and His Word - and pay our taxes.

The most frequent objection to paying taxes is that the money is being misused by the government or even used for evil purposes by the government. That, however, is not our concern. When Jesus said, "Give to Caesar..." the Roman government was by no means a righteous government. When Paul instructed us to pay taxes, Nero, the most evil Roman emperor in history, was the head of the government. We are to pay our taxes even when the government is not God-honoring.

We are free to take every tax deduction that is both legal and honest. We do not have to pay the maximum amount of taxes possible. If the government allows you a tax break - take it. If there is a legal way you can shelter some of your money from being taxed - shelter it. By all means, take the deduction for your children, your mortgage, your moving expenses, etc., etc. Again, feel free to take every legal and honest opportunity to reduce your tax burden. Illegal and/or dishonest methods must be rejected. Romans 13:2 reminds us, "Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The things I say leads you to believe, that is not a universal phenomena. You think that about me because you cannot think outside of your limited scope. Anything that even remotely sounds socialistic you automatically deem as such and apply false statements to. I pity you for that. We as a society have certain social responsibilities. That is a fact.

I never claimed to be poor. In fact, I was not complaining for me at all. I was complaining for the millions of lower middle class people who cannot afford to survive - let alone buy insurance. As well to do as I am, I do not have 2 cars. Television is a luxury that I can afford. My cell phone is a business expense. I am moving into the upper middle class area financially. And there are many more who cannot.

When I worked at Blue Cross (and I don't anymore), I was at the lowest end of the working class scale. Not poor enough for assistance and not earning enough to pay for food, rent and clothes for my kids. There are plenty of people in that boat. And I am speaking for them. You talk as though you are comfortable and everyone doesn't matter.

Actually, it may not be in the Constitution...but if I am shot and no one does anything to help me, they have broken the law. I do have a right to necessary medical care. It comes at a cost (premiums, bills & credit collection calls). I think you misjudge people too quickly and too harshly. Do you really think someone who is pro-choice would decide not to give me medical care for some petty reason? If so, then you do not understand the pro-choice position and are making assumptions that you cannot prove.

Wow, that is the coldest thing I ever heard someone say. Do you really believe people wake up and say "hmm, I want to let my kids go hungry today." Or maybe love is not allowed to be in this equation? So you fall in love, get married and have a kid or two. That is wrong if you are poor and lower class because you cannot afford it?

That is one of the things wrong about our society. Human emotion is only allowed to be used when guiding the masses through an election. As a matter of public policy, emotion is not allowed. Love is not allowed. Family issues are not allowed.

Why should you pay for some one's stupid mistakes? One, having a child is not a stupid mistake. And two, we are a society and we have a social responsibility towards each other. You will be taxed no matter what. Would you rather the money go to Bureaucrats, military quagmires or social programs that help working class people who are struggling?

Personally, I would want to see price controls and subsidies that drive the cost of living down. Food, shelter, healthcare, education, utilities, and clothing should never be unattainable. And it would not matter if you made minimum wage if the cost of living were lower. Greed and apathy drive this and you exemplified it in your post.

See, this is what I am talking about. You cannot see the forest for the trees. I never said I wanted to live under corrupt regimes like those you mention here. I do not want to see America become a socialist state. But it requires a little socialism to enforce social responsibility. And the business world has spent trillions of dollars on (since 1945) to drive any notion of that out of our heads. You must be a star pupil.

Socialism isn't evil. The problem with the socialist regimes you mention is one factor; human greed. Those systems were corrupted by human greed. Greed for money and power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So you can only consider solutions that fit the frame of capitalism, otherwise it is socialist and therefore evil? C'mon, you must be smarter than that eagle. Price controls would make healthcare (and other necessary commodities) affordable for the lower working classes.

And let's face it, the following necessities are considered a commodity in our country: Food, shelter, healthcare, clothing, utilities (like heat and electricity) and education. Do you believe that the necessities of life should be a commodity? How do you feel about homeless people? Are they just lazy & irresponsible? Are all homeless people easily generalized like that? Have you ever seen or spoke to a homeless person? The route word there is person.

After that rant I can see you are nothing more than a bleeding heart liberal…with mush for brains.
-You claim that you were once poor. Obviously you overcame that. I wonder how you did it? Could it have been from hard work and effort? Congratulations. That is the American Way, brother…not by government handouts…handouts never do anything for the poor except for the short term…long term they just keep the poor in the government chains of poverty.
-Food, housing, clothing, cars, health care, dental care, hair care….those are all things we work for in life….they are not things that are gratuitously handed to us from somebody else (except maybe by family). If you believe otherwise, why don't you just adopt a poor bum….give the bum all those things for free and then watch him continue to be a bum…I guarantee you won't put up with it for long. But that's socialism in miniature.
-You think that I am a cold-hearted person. Just the opposite. I am all for helping those who cannot help themselves - the sick, the young, the old, the animals. But I am not for helping those who repeatedly do not help themselves. People who make bad choices like drinking, drugging, spending too much, bumming around, or having kids before they can afford them have no right to demand that other people pay for their bad decisions.
-Before you start knocking capitalism and start claiming the great economic wonders of Socialism, show me a country about the size of the U.S. that ever had real, sustained success under Socialism.

1. Reform the tax treatment of health care expenses - to level the playing field & lower costs.

That only works for upper middle class families. Lower middle class families (of which, I was one for many years) usually have bills to catch up on or a big expense (like a new-used car, medical/dental needs, etc) when they get their taxes. It doesn't really solve anything and takes tax money away from social programs that we need.

Obviously you are admitting that the lower classes don't really pay taxes or else you would agree that being able to deduct health care costs would be a great help.

2. Promote portable, nationwide insurance - to help provide lower cost insurance options.

Can you say MONOPOLY?

Get real. Isn't the government running the health care business also a MONOPOLY? At least this way a person would have choices from his home state as well as nationwide options.

3. Reduce barriers to entry - to help increase the supply of doctors, nurses, etc

Can you guarantee a high standard of knowledge and capability from those reduce barrier doctors & nurses? Education is a factor and some changes there could actually increase the amount of available doctors & nurses.

Is there a guarantee now?

4. Address head-on the costs of treating the chronically ill - provide direct subsidies to purchase insurance.

So free healthcare for chronically ill? I can dig that. If we are capable of working we should want to help those who cannot. But we lack solidarity in this country (again, proven by your posts).

Solidarity? That is a Socialist's term. Solidarity my ass. This is a country of INDIVIDUALS.

5. Allow market forces to work - put the consumers in charge.

We already know that model does not work. The people in charge of major corporations do not want to relinquish that power

Wrong. We already know that the model of free markets does work for health care (before govt. & third parties like big insurance companies intervened). We already know that socialized medicine does not work from observing other countries. Prove me wrong.

 

[mattskramer]

]

Wrong. We already know that the model of free markets does work for health care (before govt. & third parties like big insurance companies intervened). We already know that socialized medicine does not work from observing other countries. Prove me wrong.

It works for some people who can afford insurance or who can afford to pay medical bills. It does not work for those who have to choose between buying food or paying their insurance premium. I think that we have a good balance between socialism and capitalism. There is Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP for those who need help.

 

[jreeves]

Question: "What does the Bible say about paying taxes?"

Answer: In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question, "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, sales tax, property tax, personal property tax, capital gains tax - the list could go on and on. Statistics show that in the United States, April 15th, tax day, is one of the most stressful days of the year. The Internal Revenue Service is probably the most despised government organization. Similarly, tax collectors were not thought highly of in Bible times (Matthew 11:19; 21:31-32; Luke 3:12-13).

As much as we hate taxes, as much as the tax system is corrupt and unfair, as much as there are far better things our money could go towards - the Bible commands, yes commands us to pay our taxes. Romans 13:1-7 makes it clear that we are to submit ourselves to the government. The only instance in which we are allowed to disobey the government is when it tells us to do something the Bible forbids. The Bible does not forbid paying taxes. In fact, the Bible encourages us to pay taxes. Therefore, we must submit to God and His Word - and pay our taxes.

The most frequent objection to paying taxes is that the money is being misused by the government or even used for evil purposes by the government. That, however, is not our concern. When Jesus said, "Give to Caesar..." the Roman government was by no means a righteous government. When Paul instructed us to pay taxes, Nero, the most evil Roman emperor in history, was the head of the government. We are to pay our taxes even when the government is not God-honoring.

We are free to take every tax deduction that is both legal and honest. We do not have to pay the maximum amount of taxes possible. If the government allows you a tax break - take it. If there is a legal way you can shelter some of your money from being taxed - shelter it. By all means, take the deduction for your children, your mortgage, your moving expenses, etc., etc. Again, feel free to take every legal and honest opportunity to reduce your tax burden. Illegal and/or dishonest methods must be rejected. Romans 13:2 reminds us, "Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

Can't believe a democrat is using the Bible, I guess our founding fathers were immoral for breaking away from Britian because of high taxation...LOL

 

[mattskramer]

Can't believe a democrat is using the Bible, I guess our founding fathers were immoral for breaking away from Britian because of high taxation...LOL

Did the founding fathers break away due to high taxation or was it due to taxation without representation?

 

[jreeves]

Did the founding fathers break away due to high taxation or was it due to taxation without representation?

Both...

 

[Taomon]

After that rant I can see you are nothing more than a bleeding heart liberal…with mush for brains.

And you are a blind asswipe with Rush Limbaugh as your puppet master.

-You claim that you were once poor. Obviously you overcame that. I wonder how you did it? Could it have been from hard work and effort? Congratulations. That is the American Way, brother…not by government handouts…handouts never do anything for the poor except for the short term…long term they just keep the poor in the government chains of poverty.

Actually, I fell ass-backwards into a job offered by an industry I did not know existed. I have a knack for datasystems and a niche was carved out for me based on their need and my capabilities.

But just because I was able to find an excellent job with a great company does not mean that everyone has that within their means. There are many factors that block people from achieving more, such as out-sourcing.

-Food, housing, clothing, cars, health care, dental care, hair care….those are all things we work for in life….they are not things that are gratuitously handed to us from somebody else (except maybe by family). If you believe otherwise, why don't you just adopt a poor bum….give the bum all those things for free and then watch him continue to be a bum…I guarantee you won't put up with it for long. But that's socialism in miniature.

And you miss the point completely. I never said these things should be free. But because they are considered commodities, they are priced as if they are luxury items. A bag of apples is morfe expensive than a bag of chips. Why is this acceptable? I say make it affordable for low income households to survive.

Why is that wrong and why do you equate that to being a handout?

-You think that I am a cold-hearted person. Just the opposite. I am all for helping those who cannot help themselves - the sick, the young, the old, the animals. But I am not for helping those who repeatedly do not help themselves. People who make bad choices like drinking, drugging, spending too much, bumming around, or having kids before they can afford them have no right to demand that other people pay for their bad decisions.

Which makes you cold hearted. You don't have any children of your own so you do not understand. You apparently are not poor or lower class so you do not understand. There are not enough jobs that pay a livable wage to go around. Are you suggesting we be more like China and not allow people to have children according to State regulations?

-Before you start knocking capitalism and start claiming the great economic wonders of Socialism, show me a country about the size of the U.S. that ever had real, sustained success under Socialism.

See, this is where you are a beligerent ass clown. I never said that Socialism is the be all end all answer to Capitalism. You want proof of a society inwhich Socialism was the model of success in order to accept just a little socialism mixed with capitalism here. That is narrow-minded and foolish.

We need to engage a social contract with our citizens. This does not mean a hand out or wealth distribution. But we must stop thinking of people as dead weight and unworthy of social programs. We must stop all of the money being handed over to already wealthy conglomerates.

This is where you become so stupid and beligerent that I cannot believe that someone like you actually exists.

1. Reform the tax treatment of health care expenses - to level the playing field & lower costs.Obviously you are admitting that the lower classes don't really pay taxes or else you would agree that being able to deduct health care costs would be a great help.

No, the lower classes pay more in taxes than the upper classes - that is their rates are higher so they actually see more of a percentage taken from them. If you bothered to read what I said, when you rob Peter to pay Paul (as many lower class families are forced to do) that tax deduction becomes a rent check, or arrearage for heating, or car repairs, etc.

Again, you are proving that you do not understand.

2. Promote portable, nationwide insurance - to help provide lower cost insurance options.

Get real. Isn't the government running the health care business also a MONOPOLY? At least this way a person would have choices from his home state as well as nationwide options.

But the rates would be higher. This doesn't solve that issue. You think competition will drive the rates down and it doesn't work that way. Millions went without insurance in MA alone, so that marketshare did not drive the rates down. Believe me, the rates have only risen steadily in the past 8 years.

It would be more like Cable TV. You can get the one cable company in your area, satelitte TV (if you are not renting) or go without. The rates for these services have not been driven down by the consumers.

3. Reduce barriers to entry - to help increase the supply of doctors, nurses, etc

Is there a guarantee now?

To some degree, yes. Those barriers are called regulations. Do you want someone who is unqualified to operate on you, or diagnose medication to you? This can cause more problems than it solves. I think the answer lies within education, such as a reduced tuition rate for medical students.

Solidarity? That is a Socialist's term. Solidarity my ass. This is a country of INDIVIDUALS.

Oh, so you feel that we should just revert to Anarchy?

5. Allow market forces to work - put the consumers in charge.

Wrong. We already know that the model of free markets does work for health care (before govt. & third parties like big insurance companies intervened). We already know that socialized medicine does not work from observing other countries. Prove me wrong.

Once again, given our higher standards and wealth, we can socialize healthcare and make it a modelfor the rest of the world. But I wasn't suggesting we socialize healthcare. I was stating very clearly that we should subsidize it so that everyone can afford it. The poor get free healthcare and the rich can afford private services. The working class are the one who suffer. Prove me wrong.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Can't believe a democrat is using the Bible, I guess our founding fathers were immoral for breaking away from Britian because of high taxation...LOL

LOL, I figure if you guys are going to justify your actions with the bible, then so can us. The bible pretty much makes anything possible to justify, except gayness.

 

[Taomon]

LOL, I figure if you guys are going to justify your actions with the bible, then so can us. The bible pretty much makes anything possible to justify, except gayness.

Unless you are a Catholic Priest. But what can you expect from a man who has to wear a dress?

 

[Obama4Pres08]

The for profit non-healthcare system in the US controlled by big pharma and insurance companies is a joke and an embarrassment around the world . Until we as people in this country decide to realize & understand that our society is and will be judged by history as to how we cared for our poor, young and old and that we dropped the ball and handed it over to greedy healthcare insurance co. CEO's(Kaiser-thanks Nixon) and sharholders and doctors who have all become filthy rich at the expense of our health.

The US is the most obese nation on earth and we rank very low on infant mortality rates. We need a universal health care system that will allow doctors to be doctors and treat patients and practice preventative medicine rather than stuff pills down their throat. Big pharma controls the FDA and the AMA so now doctors know little more than what they are allowed to know which seems not much more than writing a script for pills.

So long as health care is for profit, being run by insurance companies slaves to wall street, we will never have the so called best health care in the world, that other countries currently enjoy.

This will change when Obama becomes president however!

 

[jreeves]

LOL, I figure if you guys are going to justify your actions with the bible, then so can us. The bible pretty much makes anything possible to justify, except gayness.

LOL