It was a response to this Post. Key word Retard. Key word from Care4all Factcheck.org . Bottom line, a smoke screen for those who don't want to know to hide behind like a label.
Misdirection, appearance of final authority. Full of holes.
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Health bill prevents asking if citizen
- Thread starter get_involved
- Start date
It was a response to this Post. Key word Retard. Key word from Care4all Factcheck.org . Bottom line, a smoke screen for those who don't want to know to hide behind like a label.
Misdirection, appearance of final authority. Full of holes.
what does your link, link to? What backs up your statement?
Republicans introduced an ammendment to HR3200 that stated no illegals or abortions will be covered. DEMOCRATS VOTED IT DOWN
Link:
http://www.desertconservative.com/2009/08/28/hr3200-and-illegal-immigrantsamerica-being-snookered/
“I want to spend a few minutes debunking some of the more outrageous myths circulating on the Internet, on cable TV, and repeated at some town halls across this country.
“Let’s start with the false claim that illegal immigrants will get health insurance under reform. That’s not true. Illegal immigrants would not be covered.”
Obama chose his words with great care. Section 246 of the bill — dealing solely with insurance subsidies — states: “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” Defenders of the bill frequently quote and display copies of this section at their town hall meetings.
Notice how narrow this is? It says they should not receive the bill’s new insurance subsidies. It doesn’t say they can’t receive taxpayer-paid health care. It doesn’t say they can’t receive other benefits from HR 3200, such as the expanded Medicaid.
Obama obviously wants to leave the impression that government won’t pay health care for illegals. It’s a false impression. Here are the two big fallacies with Obama’s carefully-chosen and scripted words:
There are other avenues for illegal aliens to receive health care at public expense.
All efforts to add enforcement language to HR3200 were defeated by mostly party-line votes. We can expect that the bureaucracy would look the other way under Obama’s control (just as it has with prior presidents).
Current law says illegal aliens qualify only for emergency medical care through Medicaid. Most of these are childbirths. These costs exceed $3 billion a year. But because few states require proof of legal presence for regular Medicaid, nobody knows the true number of illegals who receive it, or at what cost.
The House bill not only makes a major expansion of Medicaid eligibility but also restricts (in Section 1702) inquiries about immigration status. Efforts to fix this and to add enforcement provisions to HR 3200 were offered in the Ways & Means Committee by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) and in the Energy & Commerce Committee by Rep. Nathan Deal (R-Ga.), but voted down. No Democrats supported Heller. Blue Dog Representatives Mike Ross (D-Ark.), Jim Matheson (D-Utah), Charles Melancon (D-La.), John Barrow (D-Ga.), and Baron Hill (D-Ind.) voted for the Deal proposal.
So we still have the problem as described by Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) in his op-ed for The Hill:
H.R. 3200 contains gaping loopholes that will allow illegal immigrants to receive taxpayer-funded benefits. And these loopholes are no accident. The legislation contains no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants do not apply for benefits. Republicans offered an amendment to close this loophole — it would have required verification using the existing methods that are already in place to verify eligibility for other federal benefits programs. But, when they were asked to put the language of the bill where their words were, in a party-line vote, House Democrats rejected the amendment to require verification and close this loophole.
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To stop illegals immigrants stop what brings them here, the employers. G after the employers will drastically reduce the number of illegal immigrants.
When an illegal immigrant is having a health crisis is not the time to crack down on them.
Healthcare reform should be seperate from the illegal immigrant problem.
Denying the illegal immigrants employment is much more humane solution than denying them healthcare.
How can you hold the employers responsible for checking status when you refuse to let them check status.. she wondered.
What world do you live in Willow.
I own my own business. I have the ability to check my employees citizenship status. I have paperwork that is required.
Where do you get the wild BS you spread around as facts.
The most efficient and affective way to reduce illegal immigrants is go after the employers.
Both parties are not doing it because of the business lobby.
To make it a center argument of the healthcare is nothing more than stonewalling. You are looking for excuses to not reform healthcare.
Those stonewalling healthcare reform are idiots and probly already on a subsidized healthcare.
Both parties are not doing it because of the business lobby.
To make it a center argument of the healthcare is nothing more than stonewalling. You are looking for excuses to not reform healthcare.
Those stonewalling healthcare reform are idiots and probly already on a subsidized healthcare.
so then, if its not a big issue for you to check, how big an issue would it be to check that status for healthcare?To stop illegals immigrants stop what brings them here, the employers. G after the employers will drastically reduce the number of illegal immigrants.
When an illegal immigrant is having a health crisis is not the time to crack down on them.
Healthcare reform should be seperate from the illegal immigrant problem.
Denying the illegal immigrants employment is much more humane solution than denying them healthcare.
How can you hold the employers responsible for checking status when you refuse to let them check status.. she wondered.
What world do you live in Willow.
I own my own business. I have the ability to check my employees citizenship status. I have paperwork that is required.
Where do you get the wild BS you spread around as facts.
what Obama and the dems are supporting is not reformThe most efficient and affective way to reduce illegal immigrants is go after the employers.
Both parties are not doing it because of the business lobby.
To make it a center argument of the healthcare is nothing more than stonewalling. You are looking for excuses to not reform healthcare.
Those stonewalling healthcare reform are idiots and probly already on a subsidized healthcare.
its a take over
oh, how cutehey divecondom, how so , if you like what you got keep it and keep paying through the nose
so then, if its not a big issue for you to check, how big an issue would it be to check that status for healthcare?How can you hold the employers responsible for checking status when you refuse to let them check status.. she wondered.
What world do you live in Willow.
I own my own business. I have the ability to check my employees citizenship status. I have paperwork that is required.
Where do you get the wild BS you spread around as facts.
Basic healthcare could be checked. what do you do when someone has a heart attack or a child has a disease if not treated they will die.
I am not for giving illegal immigrants healthcare but individual situations you have to.
The best way is to work hard to minimize the number of illegal immigrants.
That is through specific legislation.
so then, if its not a big issue for you to check, how big an issue would it be to check that status for healthcare?What world do you live in Willow.
I own my own business. I have the ability to check my employees citizenship status. I have paperwork that is required.
Where do you get the wild BS you spread around as facts.
Basic healthcare could be checked. what do you do when someone has a heart attack or a child has a disease if not treated they will die.
I am not for giving illegal immigrants healthcare but individual situations you have to.
The best way is to work hard to minimize the number of illegal immigrants.
That is through specific legislation.
Great. Now how do you propose to get the Dems in congress to pass legislation that won't alienate a large part of their voting bloc? Hell, the same goes for the Repubs.
i agree that illegals need to be stoppedso then, if its not a big issue for you to check, how big an issue would it be to check that status for healthcare?What world do you live in Willow.
I own my own business. I have the ability to check my employees citizenship status. I have paperwork that is required.
Where do you get the wild BS you spread around as facts.
Basic healthcare could be checked. what do you do when someone has a heart attack or a child has a disease if not treated they will die.
I am not for giving illegal immigrants healthcare but individual situations you have to.
The best way is to work hard to minimize the number of illegal immigrants.
That is through specific legislation.
PERIOD
they shouldnt be getting jobs here and anyone that hires them should be fined
Ravi
Diamond Member
No one seems able to post the text of this amendment and I can't find it anywhere. I do think what you've said is probably true...there's something wrong with punishing real citizens dying and bleeding in the ER by making them cough up their citizenship papers.then why did the democrats all deny putting in an amendment to verify status?
In a House committee, 5 dems and all repubs voted for it and 29 dems voted against it...
My understanding is that the amendment required healthcare officials verifying such and there is no way in heaven's name should Health care people be responsible for such...it was a bogus attempt that the repubs needed to spill their spew, that's all...if you look at it closely.
Illegals can not get affordability credits if they are poor to qualify for this plan, that's WHAT IT SAYS and that is what it will be....that is.......if the Senate puts a measure in as well in this manner so that it does not have to be negotiated in the Conference report....
so we need the senate to put in their bill a similar measure...if that happens, then it is a done deal and the measure will be in the Bill coming out of conference.
Health care officials are not going to be the ones doling out the affordability credits, why should they have to verify anything like that? just ridiculous, if it is true...which still isn't confirmed...yet....I realize.
That said, Medicare has requirements that verify citizenship and there is no reason to believe a public option would not operate in a similar manner.
It IS THE LAW that everyone who comes in to the emergency room has to be treated...whether black, white, asian, hispanic, legal or illegal
That's just 'basic' and this will never change....it has NOTHING to do with this new health care reform bill, it has to do with humanity in and of itself.
There seem to be people on this site, that don't want anyone illegal to even receive emergency care, which is appalling for any human to wish something like that on another human being, legal or illegal.
That's just 'basic' and this will never change....it has NOTHING to do with this new health care reform bill, it has to do with humanity in and of itself.
There seem to be people on this site, that don't want anyone illegal to even receive emergency care, which is appalling for any human to wish something like that on another human being, legal or illegal.
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dilloduck
Diamond Member
It IS THE LAW that everyone who comes in to the emergency room has to be treated...whether black, white, asian, hispanic, legal or illegal
That's just 'basic' and this will never change....it has NOTHING to do with this new health care reform bill, it has to do with humanity in and of itself.
There seem to be people on this site, that don't want anyone illegals to even receive emergency care, which is appalling for any human to wish something like that on another human being, legal or illegal.
make that "free" emergency care and you are closer to being accurate.
and as far as illegals being able to buy their own health insurance with this new reform....yes, they will be able to purchase insurance like any other person that wants to purchase anything, there are no laws that make the private owner of a business- ID HIS CUSTOMERS to make certain they are citizens BEFORE the customer can buy anything....sheesh!
i read the the PEW institute ran a study on health care for illegals and it estimated through it's analysis that about half of the illegals in the united states already purchase their health care...mostly through their employers, the other half or so would more than likely take out insurance as well if their employers offered it as a benefit but as is....uses our services through the emergency room....of which our government does use our tax dollars to pay back some of this cost to the hospitals because Congress rightfully, made it mandatory for them to service everyone that walks through the emergency room door.
i read the the PEW institute ran a study on health care for illegals and it estimated through it's analysis that about half of the illegals in the united states already purchase their health care...mostly through their employers, the other half or so would more than likely take out insurance as well if their employers offered it as a benefit but as is....uses our services through the emergency room....of which our government does use our tax dollars to pay back some of this cost to the hospitals because Congress rightfully, made it mandatory for them to service everyone that walks through the emergency room door.
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It IS THE LAW that everyone who comes in to the emergency room has to be treated...whether black, white, asian, hispanic, legal or illegal
That's just 'basic' and this will never change....it has NOTHING to do with this new health care reform bill, it has to do with humanity in and of itself.
There seem to be people on this site, that don't want anyone illegals to even receive emergency care, which is appalling for any human to wish something like that on another human being, legal or illegal.
make that "free" emergency care and you are closer to being accurate.
Well, whether legal or illegal, female or male, old or young....with money or without money, WILL BE TREATED if they are sick or injured by Hospital emergency rooms.
The Hospital will try to get money from all of these people that have had to use the emergency room all year whether legal or illegal makes no difference...it's up to the Hospital how far they pursue this money owed them.
Even with insurance, there is no guarantee the Hospital will be paid....my insurance denied most everything...SHOULD THAT have stopped the hospital from treating me at the time or with the continued follow up treatment?
The Hospital will get what money it can get, on any of their services, insured or not insured....what they can't collect, they SELL off to credit/collection agencies for half the price or so, then the collection agency goes after the patient and so on and so forth....
there is a whole business of a crap load of people working in this kind of Hospital collection thingy....I was amazed at the maze i had to go through to come to any kind of settlement for the bill that the PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY -CIGNA refused to pay because of a small technical reason of how it was filed by the Hospital.
Care
It IS THE LAW that everyone who comes in to the emergency room has to be treated...whether black, white, asian, hispanic, legal or illegal
That's just 'basic' and this will never change....it has NOTHING to do with this new health care reform bill, it has to do with humanity in and of itself.
There seem to be people on this site, that don't want anyone illegal to even receive emergency care, which is appalling for any human to wish something like that on another human being, legal or illegal.
Thats not the point. The Feds have failed on border security, deportation, medical costs, fraud and mismanagement of Medicaid and Medicare, failed abysmally in their primary responsibility, and You want to give them the keys to the Health Care Industry. Incompetence, be it by corruption, dishonesty, warped priorities, or inability to comprehend, is not a qualification for more empowerment. It is a lie. You are supporting a lie.
It IS THE LAW that everyone who comes in to the emergency room has to be treated...whether black, white, asian, hispanic, legal or illegal
That's just 'basic' and this will never change....it has NOTHING to do with this new health care reform bill, it has to do with humanity in and of itself.
There seem to be people on this site, that don't want anyone illegals to even receive emergency care, which is appalling for any human to wish something like that on another human being, legal or illegal.
make that "free" emergency care and you are closer to being accurate.
Well, whether legal or illegal, female or male, old or young....with money or without money, WILL BE TREATED if they are sick or injured by Hospital emergency rooms.
The Hospital will try to get money from all of these people that have had to use the emergency room all year whether legal or illegal makes no difference...it's up to the Hospital how far they pursue this money owed them.
Even with insurance, there is no guarantee the Hospital will be paid....my insurance denied most everything...SHOULD THAT have stopped the hospital from treating me at the time or with the continued follow up treatment?
The Hospital will get what money it can get, on any of their services, insured or not insured....what they can't collect, they SELL off to credit/collection agencies for half the price or so, then the collection agency goes after the patient and so on and so forth....
there is a whole business of a crap load of people working in this kind of Hospital collection thingy....I was amazed at the maze i had to go through to come to any kind of settlement for the bill that the PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY -CIGNA refused to pay because of a small technical reason of how it was filed by the Hospital.
Care
They use Aliases. Who are you trying to kid? Who do you think currently pays for their care? Can't even get an honest count on how many are here. Ever stop to think that you are bought and paid for?
Zoom-boing
Platinum Member
No one seems able to post the text of this amendment and I can't find it anywhere. I do think what you've said is probably true...there's something wrong with punishing real citizens dying and bleeding in the ER by making them cough up their citizenship papers.
That said, Medicare has requirements that verify citizenship and there is no reason to believe a public option would not operate in a similar manner.
Cripes, I've posted this thing so many times. Here:
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/heller-6.pdf
Everyone read this, will ya?
Among three House committees to pass bills for health reform, only one expressly bans federal funding for proving health coverage to illegal immigrants.
"The Congressional Research Service has indicated that indeed the bills that are before Congress would include illegal aliens," Wilson said. "And I think this is wrong."
Indeed, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service study found that the House health care bill does not restrict illegal immigrants from receiving health care coverage.
House Republican Minority Leader John Boehner amplified the complaint that without proof of citizenship, illegal immigrants could be insured.
"There were two opportunities for House Democrats to make clear that illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered by putting in requirements to show citizenships," he said. "Both of those amendments were, in fact, rejected."
In the Senate, Democrats in the so called "Gang of Six," a group of bipartisan senators on the Senate Finance Committee which is the last panel yet to release its bill, began moving quickly to close the loophole that Wilson helped bring greater attention to.
Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill - Political News - FOXNews.com
The Dems twice shot down amendments to close the loophole. They didn't want anyone to bitch about it because they want illegals to get coverage so when they're fast tracked to citizens they'll vote Dem. Is this really so hard for everyone?
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No one seems able to post the text of this amendment and I can't find it anywhere. I do think what you've said is probably true...there's something wrong with punishing real citizens dying and bleeding in the ER by making them cough up their citizenship papers.
That said, Medicare has requirements that verify citizenship and there is no reason to believe a public option would not operate in a similar manner.
Cripes, I've posted this thing so many times. Here:
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/heller-6.pdf
Everyone read this, will ya?
Among three House committees to pass bills for health reform, only one expressly bans federal funding for proving health coverage to illegal immigrants.
"The Congressional Research Service has indicated that indeed the bills that are before Congress would include illegal aliens," Wilson said. "And I think this is wrong."
Indeed, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service study found that the House health care bill does not restrict illegal immigrants from receiving health care coverage.
House Republican Minority Leader John Boehner amplified the complaint that without proof of citizenship, illegal immigrants could be insured.
"There were two opportunities for House Democrats to make clear that illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered by putting in requirements to show citizenships," he said. "Both of those amendments were, in fact, rejected."
In the Senate, Democrats in the so called "Gang of Six," a group of bipartisan senators on the Senate Finance Committee which is the last panel yet to release its bill, began moving quickly to close the loophole that Wilson helped bring greater attention to.
Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill - Political News - FOXNews.com
The Dems twice shot down amendments to close the loophole. They didn't want anyone to bitch about it because they want illegals to get coverage so when they're fast tracked to citizens they'll vote Dem. Is this really so hard for everyone?
They Just don't want you to shine light on it or draw attention to it. They think that it is clever to out maneuver us this way. They don't understand the foul, it is not in them to understand.
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