Hate Speech In Germany

[Madeline]

Holy shit.

Bundesbank official's comments, condemned as racist, open debate on immigration in Germany | cleveland.com

 

[hipeter924]

Nazism was snuffed out right? I guess not. Say hello to the return of Nazi Germany.

 

[Madeline]

Unbelievable, hipeter. First France and now Germany? WTF is going on in Europe?

 

[Tank]

Muslims make nazis look like girl scouts.

 

[hipeter924]

Unbelievable, hipeter. First France and now Germany? WTF is going on in Europe?

Fascists vs Islamists vs Socialists (aka civil war)

 

[ekrem]

Unbelievable, hipeter. First France and now Germany? WTF is going on in Europe?

Federal Bank has already fired him, German President Wulff has to confirm, which he will do.
With France you probably mean the "Roma" subject, that is indeed a shame as it is state-policy.
The Sarazzin subject is on a different level, as it is a personal view.
Like Spiderman's uncle said: With great power comes great responsibility.
He overstretched, now he is gone.

Many of his arguments in his books have been disproved in the public in Germany.
For example in his book he claimed, that 20% of crime in Berlin is done by Muslims.
Yesterday there was political talk-show on State Television, they read an official letter by Police Chief of Berlin. The letter said, that Muslim crime rate in Berlin is 8.7 % of total.

Such things you do not do as member of Federal State Bank.

 

[Madeline]

Thank you, ekrem.

 

[ekrem]

Berlin's polpulation = 3.442.675 Million.
Muslims in Berlin = 220.000 (6.3 %) - 300.000 (11.4 %) according to Berlin federal senate.
Berlin Police says, that Muslim crime rate is 8.7 % of all crime.

Sarazzin claims 20% in his book. He tries to imply that Muslims in Berlin are more violent then the others.


Sources:
(220.000 - 300.000 Muslims)
Integrations-Studie - Muslime sind stolze Berliner - aber keine Deutsche - Berlin Aktuell - Berliner Morgenpost - Berlin

Berlin Population
Berlin ? Wikipedia

Data by Berlin Police given in yesterday's political talk-show on German State Television.

 

[ekrem]

Thank you, ekrem.

The economy in Germany is recovering.
There won't be ethnic groups deported like in France, or minarets banned like in Switzerland.
There is always a connection between economy and resentiments against immigrants.

 

[germanguy]

Hi there,

just to add some background:

Theo Sarrazin (btw: this guy´s last name implies by ethymology, that he is of Sarazen origin, means of muslim origin. Lot´s of french Hugenots were and immigrated to Brandenburg in the 17th century - funny, isn´t it ?) is a board member of the Bundesbank, our version of the Fed. He was before this a high ranking public service official, secretary of finance in Berlin and is member of the Social Democratic Party (= Center Left)

He has written a book called "Deutschland schafft sich ab" (reads as Germany disposes itself).

In this book he states several problems of immigration and non-integration of immigrants.
Also, he argues, that the muslim faith hinders immigrants to integrate themselves. Also, as the Muslims tend to be less educated, but have more children, the more stupid muslims will outnumber the Germans in 100 years. The average birthrate of Germans is 1.4 children, that of immigrants is 2.1. Problem is, that a population does not grow in a linear progression. According to this model, starting in 1890, Germany would now have 250 million citizens. Correctly there are now 81 million, thanks to contraceptives, two wars and lower birthrates.

Problem with this debate is, that Mr Sarrazin loves to provoke, raises a legitimate subject (yes, immigration causes problems), but messes all up by stating, that there are certain biological factors, which causes immigrants to be less intelligent. Also, there is a jewish Gen, which helps the Jews to be more intzelligent bankers. Hmpf.

So, what happens is, that this subject is debated quite heated. Rightly so, but in a wrong and non-constructive way.

But actually this is a mild storm compared to what FOX et al. sometimes blows into the airwaves.

The White Middle Class in the West fears dramatic changes , so we hear now the reaction.

regrds
ze germanguy

 

[Madeline]

Thankies, german guy.

Sorry to have been alarmed. Cleveland has a large German and eastern European (descent) population and so, the Plain Dealer watches that part of Europe more closely than maybe another city's paper would. I'm sure it isn't the most balanced reporting but I cannot read German.

BTW, are the Oktoberfests we so love here authentic, do ya think?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Berlin's polpulation = 3.442.675 Million.
Muslims in Berlin = 220.000 (6.3 %) - 300.000 (11.4 %) according to Berlin federal senate.
Berlin Police says, that Muslim crime rate is 8.7 % of all crime.

Sarazzin claims 20% in his book. He tries to imply that Muslims in Berlin are more violent then the others.


Sources:
(220.000 - 300.000 Muslims)
Integrations-Studie - Muslime sind stolze Berliner - aber keine Deutsche - Berlin Aktuell - Berliner Morgenpost - Berlin

Berlin Population
Berlin ? Wikipedia

Data by Berlin Police given in yesterday's political talk-show on German State Television.

That immigrant Muslims are more violent than the native population is not a cliam limited to this man or to Germany. This claim has been made in most Scandanavian countries in recent years. I suppose they could all be lying about it though.

 

[Madeline]

Tech_Esq wrote:

That immigrant Muslims are more violent than the native population is not a cliam limited to this man or to Germany. This claim has been made in most Scandanavian countries in recent years. I suppose they could all be lying about it though.

Well, I'm not sure how you'd measure and compare rates of violence, but I have little trouble believing that a poor family that moved from Iran to Switzerland might have serious adjustment issues and that these might include adapting to the new country's laws about domestic violence, etc. I'm not sure where such a belief gets you, though. Prohibitting minarets seems like the wrong way to address the problem to me.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Hi there,

just to add some background:

Theo Sarrazin (btw: this guy´s last name implies by ethymology, that he is of Sarazen origin, means of muslim origin. Lot´s of french Hugenots were and immigrated to Brandenburg in the 17th century - funny, isn´t it ?) is a board member of the Bundesbank, our version of the Fed. He was before this a high ranking public service official, secretary of finance in Berlin and is member of the Social Democratic Party (= Center Left)

He has written a book called "Deutschland schafft sich ab" (reads as Germany disposes itself).

In this book he states several problems of immigration and non-integration of immigrants.
Also, he argues, that the muslim faith hinders immigrants to integrate themselves. Also, as the Muslims tend to be less educated, but have more children, the more stupid muslims will outnumber the Germans in 100 years. The average birthrate of Germans is 1.4 children, that of immigrants is 2.1. Problem is, that a population does not grow in a linear progression. According to this model, starting in 1890, Germany would now have 250 million citizens. Correctly there are now 81 million, thanks to contraceptives, two wars and lower birthrates.

Problem with this debate is, that Mr Sarrazin loves to provoke, raises a legitimate subject (yes, immigration causes problems), but messes all up by stating, that there are certain biological factors, which causes immigrants to be less intelligent. Also, there is a jewish Gen, which helps the Jews to be more intzelligent bankers. Hmpf.

So, what happens is, that this subject is debated quite heated. Rightly so, but in a wrong and non-constructive way.

But actually this is a mild storm compared to what FOX et al. sometimes blows into the airwaves.

The White Middle Class in the West fears dramatic changes , so we hear now the reaction.

regrds
ze germanguy

Thanks GermanGuy. Interesting prospective.

I happen to be reading Mein Kampf right now. I've stayed away from it up until now because I've always heard it was a chore to read and what kind of insight do you really need about Hitler at this point?

Anyway, I have found the first hundred or so pages interesting. Hitler describes the world of his youth (Vienna and Munich) and the politics of the time and place. The reason I bring it up is because I hear echos of his concerns in your descriptions. I'm guessing this is a German cultural thing.

I do think that Europeans have allowed themselves to get behind the curve on this issue. You've allowed your "liberalism" and "tolerance" to blind you and bind you to the point of inaction while a group who cares nothing for you, your culture or your people insert themselves very strongly and begin to take root. You are a tree that has been beset by a powerful and choking vine. If you allow it to continue unchecked, you will soon be foreigners in your own country. A truly absurd result, nevertheless, a very real future if you look at what your new Muslim neighbors expect. Islam is a not just a religion but a full-featured way to live encompassing all aspects of one's life. They will not long tolerate your separate governing bodies or courts.

With any luck, we'll take notice of the victimization of Europe and ensure that we prevent such things from happening in this country.

 

[Madeline]

Good grief, Tech_Esq. You feel it is utterly hopeless that Muslim immigrants will eventually assimilate into German society? WTF do people move to Germany then?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Tech_Esq wrote:

That immigrant Muslims are more violent than the native population is not a cliam limited to this man or to Germany. This claim has been made in most Scandanavian countries in recent years. I suppose they could all be lying about it though.

Well, I'm not sure how you'd measure and compare rates of violence, but I have little trouble believing that a poor family that moved from Iran to Switzerland might have serious adjustment issues and that these might include adapting to the new country's laws about domestic violence, etc. I'm not sure where such a belief gets you, though. Prohibitting minarets seems like the wrong way to address the problem to me.

Well, a little wife beating and some rape. I guess we shouldn't begrudge these fine fellows that, right? I mean it's all for the greater good, right? Think of all we get out of the deal. Well, they get, at any rate.

Gang rapes and robberies on the rise

Norway: Muslim Gang Rapes Continue - Jihad Watch

I don't think anyone is talking about prohibiting minerets. The subject is preserving a country's culture. New people are free to peacefully visit and not assimilate or permanently stay and assimilate. They should not be free to come, stay permanently and change everything so it is like they want it and you can go to hell if you don't like it.

This last is intolerable and should not be allowed to begin. Europe and Scandanavia did not see this coming. Now, they are behind the curve and must fight to keep their culture and country.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Good grief, Tech_Esq. You feel it is utterly hopeless that Muslim immigrants will eventually assimilate into German society? WTF do people move to Germany then?

They move there for work. Germany is the economic engine of Europe.

You haven't lived in Europe have you?

 

[Madeline]

You got me. I have never even visited Europe.

I had/have a friend who lives in France. He told me years ago, whole neighborhoods in Paris were becoming impassable for women in western garb. And back in the day, Detroit had a sizable Arab population that was no picnic to cope with either.

But Tech_Esq, how is this different from other culture clashes? Surely by the time these immigrant families have had grandchildren, assimilation has largely occurred.

 

[SW2SILVER]

I live with immigrants, these people don't respect the host culture. Please, they have twice as many kids as the norm, or what they can reasonably afford in a developed country. Now add to that, ISLAM. Please. Islam is no friend to west or liberal causes. Why allow this insanity? Hate speech? Please don't exaggerate. They HATE us. That is no exaggeration.

 

[Tech_Esq]

You got me. I have never even visited Europe.

I had/have a friend who lives in France. He told me years ago, whole neighborhoods in Paris were becoming impassable for women in western garb. And back in the day, Detroit had a sizable Arab population that was no picnic to cope with either.

But Tech_Esq, how is this different from other culture clashes? Surely by the time these immigrant families have had grandchildren, assimilation has largely occurred.

I think the primary problem is that you are envisioning Muslim families immigrating to these countries and usually, that's not the case. Instead you have many young men immigrating and not so many families. That explains part of the disconnect.

The reason why this is different from other culture clashes is because of the demands of the Muslim's religion. Christian, Jewish and other religions do not have the features that Islam has, so they are not comparable. If you were a Muslim and your religion commanded you to obey laws as prescribed in your faith, wouldn't you? If it said the courts had to have a certain character or not be within the faith, wouldn't you seek it where ever you went? Of course you would. We are the ones being ridiculous if we tell ourselves they won't or wouldn't. It's their faith. They have to or they would be acting against their faith.

We are advised to take the proper measures to maintain our culture against this potential threat.