Hard pass for Kingdom of Heaven (HBO)

[iamwhatiseem]

A movie that was doomed to fail upon it's release.
Incredibly poor timing. It is a movie about the crusades. And tells the story of both sides without favor.
It was released in 2005. Only 4 years after 9/11, and in the middle of the Gulf War.
America was in no mood for a movie that showed Muslims in a favorable light.
At all. So it failed.
The second reason it failed was the original screening was over 3 hours long. It did not screen well. Studios blamed it on the length, in error. The Director/producer removed 40 minutes of primarily dialogue.
But the result of that was a movie without any room to tell the story. without that dialogue it is just a collection if scenes.
I read critics saying it is the "best movie you have never seen".
Despite the fact that, for whatever reason, HBO released the short version rather than the longer Directors cut that critics raved over - we gave it a go.
We lasted about 45 minutes and switched to something else.
What a mistake by HBO. Making the same error as the original studios 17 years prior.

Skip it folks.

 

[westwall]

A movie that was doomed to fail upon it's release.
Incredibly poor timing. It is a movie about the crusades. And tells the story of both sides without favor.
It was released in 2005. Only 4 years after 9/11, and in the middle of the Gulf War.
America was in no mood for a movie that showed Muslims in a favorable light.
At all. So it failed.
The second reason it failed was the original screening was over 3 hours long. It did not screen well. Studios blamed it on the length, in error. The Director/producer removed 40 minutes of primarily dialogue.
But the result of that was a movie without any room to tell the story. without that dialogue it is just a collection if scenes.
I read critics saying it is the "best movie you have never seen".
Despite the fact that, for whatever reason, HBO released the short version rather than the longer Directors cut that critics raved over - we gave it a go.
We lasted about 45 minutes and switched to something else.
What a mistake by HBO. Making the same error as the original studios 17 years prior.

Skip it folks.

Are you talking about the Ridley Scott film Kingdom of Heaven? That is a great film, and is one of the best representations of Saladin put on film.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Are you talking about the Ridley Scott film Kingdom of Heaven? That is a great film, and is one of the best representations Saladin put on film.

Whoops - thanks, I corrected the title.
Did you see the Directors cut? The Directors cut is the one critics say is a must see. The studio release cut critics hated.
Unfortunately, HBO only has the studio release.
Both my wife and I found ourselves lost. Not so much you didn't know what was going on, but enough that the story held little meaning. The story isn't "breathing".
Imagine your favorite book with a full 1/3rd of it cut out.

 

[Moonglow]

Oh, the movie that shows what aband of murderous thieves the so-called Christians were?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Oh, the movie that shows what aband of murderous thieves the so-called Christians were?

No a movie that shows what a band of Christian/Muslim zealots/ murderers and thieves were.
Interesting you only singled out Christians.

 

[Moonglow]

No a movie that shows what a band of Christian/Muslim zealots/ murderers and thieves were.
Interesting you only singled out Christians.

I was getting to the Muslims yet the goal of the statement was to find someone who was interested in religion. Can you show me in the Muslim holy book where they claim to be a religion of love like Christianity?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I was getting to the Muslims yet the goal of the statement was to find someone who was interested in religion. Can you show me in the Muslim holy book where they claim to be a religion of love like Christianity?

What kind of gibberish is that?
This is a thread about a movie. It isn't a thread about the differences/validity of two religions.

 

[Votto]

The Crusades were a tragedy. Essentially, it was Europe looting the Holy Land, killing Jews and Muslims along the way.

But was that Christianity? No. For hundreds of years after the resurrection, Christians were lived peacefully as they were routinely martyred and as they met secretly in their homes.

Then came Constantine, a Roman pagan hell bent on political power. He simply saw how Christianity was flourishing despite the persecution and latched onto it for his own personal gain and power, as he decided to conquer in the name of God. Trouble was, he was still a pagan as he continued to worship the Roman pagan gods. He even later murdered his own wife and son for political purposes, although it was rumored he converted to Christianity on his death bed.

But Constantine let the precedent of the church acting as an earthly political power, something Christ divorced himself from when he said his kingdom was not of this world, nor could be. Then came all of the bad press Christianity generated from the Crusades, to Inquisitions, to Jewish ghettos, all because man had comingled the sinful politics of man with the holiness of God. So to this day, people in the Middle East refer to Christians as Crusaders. It simply gave Christianity a big black eye.

But were Muslims righteous and sinless? Islam mandates that the politics of man and their faith be shared, which is why we see such horrific outcomes with Islamic terrorism. So I'm sure they committed crimes as well as they continue to do today.

Just know that God has nothing to do with any of it.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The Crusades were a tragedy. Essentially, it was Europe looting the Holy Land, killing Jews and Muslims along the way.

But was that Christianity? No. For hundreds of years after the resurrection, Christians were lived peacefully as they were routinely martyred and as they met secretly in their homes.

Then came Constantine, a Roman pagan hell bent on political power. He simply saw how Christianity was flourishing despite the persecution and latched onto it for his own personal gain and power, as he decided to conquer in the name of God. Trouble was, he was still a pagan as he continued to worship the Roman pagan gods. He even later murdered his own wife and son for political purposes, although it was rumored he converted to Christianity on his death bed.

But Constantine let the precedent of the church acting as an earthly political power, something Christ divorced himself from when he said his kingdom was not of this world, nor could be. Then came all of the bad press Christianity generated from the Crusades, to Inquisitions, to Jewish ghettos, all because man had comingled the sinful politics of man with the holiness of God. So to this day, people in the Middle East refer to Christians as Crusaders. It simply gave Christianity a big black eye.

But were Muslims righteous and sinless? Islam mandates that the politics of man and their faith be shared, which is why we see such horrific outcomes with Islamic terrorism. So I'm sure they committed crimes as well as they continue to do today.

Just know that God has nothing to do with any of it.

Constantine also watered down the written text and rules of the religion to his liking.
But he stopped religious persecutions and mass murder of Christians that was occurring across the provinces. He legalized the church, democratized the rules by insisting they end their divisions and unify their doctrines.
It will be forever argued whether he was a benefit to Christianity or made it worse.