Hamas: Palestinian Protests Against: The Use Of Human Shields.

[RoccoR]

et al,

HAMAS, as have many pro-HAMAS activist, have accused Israel of War Crimes based largely on the disproportionate number of civilian casualties and the destruction as an outcome of the conflict.

I thought I would enter these thoughts as a starting point for a serious discussion.

First:

Gaza Residents: Hamas Kept Us from Fleeing Israeli Attacks
Evelyn Gordon | @EvelynCGordon

09.22.2014 - 9:45 AM
SOURCE: Commentary Magazine

Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian-Jordanian now living in Britain, hascollected and published some truly shocking testimony from Gaza residents about Hamas’s behavior during this summer’s war with Israel. All his interviewees insisted on remaining anonymous, and it’s easy to understand why: They accuse Hamas of deliberately creating hundreds of civilian casualties by forcing civilians to stay in places Israel had warned it was going to bomb.
​

Second:

Gazans Speak Out Against Hamas War Crimes
By Mudar Zahran || AfricanWorldForum Africa | 22 September 2014 Last updated at 12:36 CET
SOURCE: Modern Ghana

"We are under Hamas occupation, and if you ask most of us, we would rather be under Israeli occupation… We miss the days when we were able to work inside Israel and make good money. We miss the security and calm Israel provided when it was here." — S., graduate of an American university, former Hamas sympathizer.

While the world's media has been blaming Israel for the death of Gazan civilians during Operation Protective Edge, this correspondent decided to speak with Gazans themselves to hear what they had to say.

They spoke of Hamas atrocities and warcrimes implicating Hamas in the civilian deaths of its own people.

Although Gazans, fearful of Hamas's revenge against them, were afraid to speak to the media, friends in the West Bank offered introductions to relatives in Gaza.
​

Is there a Gaza Strip Palestinian component that actually opposes HAMAS Rule and its practices?

Foreign Media Lodges Protest Against Hamas Harassment in Gaza


Masked Palestinian militants of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades march in Gaza / AP

SOURCE:
BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
August 11, 2014 2:29 pm

The Foreign Press Association has lodged a protest against Hamas, accusing the Palestinian terrorist organization of harassment and threatening foreign workers in Gaza, Agence France-Presse reports.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

et al,

HAMAS, as have many pro-HAMAS activist, have accused Israel of War Crimes based largely on the disproportionate number of civilian casualties and the destruction as an outcome of the conflict.

I thought I would enter these thoughts as a starting point for a serious discussion.

First:

Gaza Residents: Hamas Kept Us from Fleeing Israeli Attacks
Evelyn Gordon | @EvelynCGordon

09.22.2014 - 9:45 AM
SOURCE: Commentary Magazine

Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian-Jordanian now living in Britain, hascollected and published some truly shocking testimony from Gaza residents about Hamas’s behavior during this summer’s war with Israel. All his interviewees insisted on remaining anonymous, and it’s easy to understand why: They accuse Hamas of deliberately creating hundreds of civilian casualties by forcing civilians to stay in places Israel had warned it was going to bomb.
​

Second:

Gazans Speak Out Against Hamas War Crimes
By Mudar Zahran || AfricanWorldForum Africa | 22 September 2014 Last updated at 12:36 CET
SOURCE: Modern Ghana

"We are under Hamas occupation, and if you ask most of us, we would rather be under Israeli occupation… We miss the days when we were able to work inside Israel and make good money. We miss the security and calm Israel provided when it was here." — S., graduate of an American university, former Hamas sympathizer.

While the world's media has been blaming Israel for the death of Gazan civilians during Operation Protective Edge, this correspondent decided to speak with Gazans themselves to hear what they had to say.

They spoke of Hamas atrocities and warcrimes implicating Hamas in the civilian deaths of its own people.

Although Gazans, fearful of Hamas's revenge against them, were afraid to speak to the media, friends in the West Bank offered introductions to relatives in Gaza.
​

Is there actually a Gaza Strip Palestinian component that actually opposes HAMAS Rule and its practices?

Foreign Media Lodges Protest Against Hamas Harassment in Gaza


Masked Palestinian militants of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades march in Gaza / AP

SOURCE:
BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
August 11, 2014 2:29 pm

The Foreign Press Association has lodged a protest against Hamas, accusing the Palestinian terrorist organization of harassment and threatening foreign workers in Gaza, Agence France-Presse reports.​

Most Respectfully,
R

What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

 

[toastman]

Excellent post Rocco. I doubt the pro Palestinians here will respond to this thread.

 

[RoccoR]

MJB12741, et al,

I believe that People of Palestine (both Israeli and Arab) are evolving politically. Time will tell if it is towards a reconciliation of past grievances, or not. But both sides are growing weary of what seems to be a never ending conflict.

What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

(COMMENT)

Much of the current arguments, on both sides, is center both ancient historical aspects, and recent contemporary history within the last century. It is part feud --- a bitter, continuous hostility, between two cultures, that has evolved over many generations. It is part obstinacy --- stubborn quality being difficult to remedy based on a set of "unreconcilable differences."

Relative to the election of HAMAS by (substantially) the Gazan People, one has to as if the Gazan's were actually competent intellectually to understand the ramifications and consequences they made in that decision? (RHETORICAL) The election of HAMAS, if really a democratic process, assumes that the government is not only by the people and for the people, but actually subject to change by the people. One has to ask if the Gazan People actually understood that it would be a single election and that HAMAS (or any variant successor government) would actually be outside their control; one election and HAMAS forever. (again --- RHETORICAL) This is part and parcel, embedded in the idea of "duly elected."

Last June (2014), both HAMAS and Fatah formed what was called a "Unity Government" (an Arab variation of a Coalition Government) which has merely made the Government of President Mahmoud Abbas virtually hostage to any demand made by HAMAS. Included in the agreement was the design to have a general election in December (2014). Again, the world will see if the Palestinian People have the competency to re-establish the Government under the:

• 2003 Amended Basic Law (current)
• 2005 Amendment to the Basic Law(current)

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Daniyel]

The only possible leadership of Gaza is going to be far radical and violent to beat Hamas, now PIJ is scoring some points but IS is the arch model so no happy end to the Palestinians in this direction.

 

[José]

You know there must be something seriously wrong with zionist thinking when you see a zionist starting a thread trying to delegitimize the palestinian struggle against the jewish supremacist state and two other zionist posters post messages that directly contradict the main point being made by the OP, messages that clearly show the resistance movement (both peaceful and violent) has massive popular support among palestinians.

Originally posted by MJB12741
What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinians had their chance to have an independent state several times but kept refusing. Do you expect Israel to succumb to the demands of the Palestinians??

Gaza Belongs to Jews Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinian Arabs are just butt hurt that they lost.

What was the lesson learned?? Don't fuck with the Jews !!

Obviously the Palestinians never learned that lesson, as seen by the first and second intifada

Is Israel the Same as South Africa Page 75 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
There will never be a palestinian state.

sorry don't have the link to this one.

 

[mudwhistle]

Hey, we

et al,

HAMAS, as have many pro-HAMAS activist, have accused Israel of War Crimes based largely on the disproportionate number of civilian casualties and the destruction as an outcome of the conflict.

I thought I would enter these thoughts as a starting point for a serious discussion.

First:

Gaza Residents: Hamas Kept Us from Fleeing Israeli Attacks
Evelyn Gordon | @EvelynCGordon

09.22.2014 - 9:45 AM
SOURCE: Commentary Magazine

Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian-Jordanian now living in Britain, hascollected and published some truly shocking testimony from Gaza residents about Hamas’s behavior during this summer’s war with Israel. All his interviewees insisted on remaining anonymous, and it’s easy to understand why: They accuse Hamas of deliberately creating hundreds of civilian casualties by forcing civilians to stay in places Israel had warned it was going to bomb.
​

Second:

Gazans Speak Out Against Hamas War Crimes
By Mudar Zahran || AfricanWorldForum Africa | 22 September 2014 Last updated at 12:36 CET
SOURCE: Modern Ghana

"We are under Hamas occupation, and if you ask most of us, we would rather be under Israeli occupation… We miss the days when we were able to work inside Israel and make good money. We miss the security and calm Israel provided when it was here." — S., graduate of an American university, former Hamas sympathizer.

While the world's media has been blaming Israel for the death of Gazan civilians during Operation Protective Edge, this correspondent decided to speak with Gazans themselves to hear what they had to say.

They spoke of Hamas atrocities and warcrimes implicating Hamas in the civilian deaths of its own people.

Although Gazans, fearful of Hamas's revenge against them, were afraid to speak to the media, friends in the West Bank offered introductions to relatives in Gaza.
​

Is there actually a Gaza Strip Palestinian component that actually opposes HAMAS Rule and its practices?

Foreign Media Lodges Protest Against Hamas Harassment in Gaza


Masked Palestinian militants of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades march in Gaza / AP

SOURCE:
BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
August 11, 2014 2:29 pm

The Foreign Press Association has lodged a protest against Hamas, accusing the Palestinian terrorist organization of harassment and threatening foreign workers in Gaza, Agence France-Presse reports.​

Most Respectfully,
R

What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

Hey, we elected Obama.

 

[Daniyel]

You know there must be something seriously wrong with zionist thinking when you see a zionist starting a thread trying to delegitimize the palestinian struggle against the jewish supremacist state and two other zionist posters post messages that directly contradict the main point being made by the OP, messages that clearly show the resistance movement (both peaceful and violent) has massive popular support among palestinians.

Originally posted by MJB12741
What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinians had their chance to have an independent state several times but kept refusing. Do you expect Israel to succumb to the demands of the Palestinians??

Gaza Belongs to Jews Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinian Arabs are just butt hurt that they lost.

What was the lesson learned?? Don't fuck with the Jews !!

Obviously the Palestinians never learned that lesson, as seen by the first and second intifada

Is Israel the Same as South Africa Page 75 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
There will never be a palestinian state.

sorry don't have the link to this one.

So once the "Noble Palestinian Struggle" dirt is leaking you turn the fingers to Israel? Typical.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Daniyel
So once the "Noble Palestinian Struggle" dirt is leaking you turn the fingers to Israel? Typical.

Dani,

Direct your complains to the posters who actually posted those messages (MJB and toastman) not me.

They are the ones clearly stating the struggle against Israel enjoys huge popular support among palestinians.

They're the ones stating the palestinian quoted by Rocco (particularly the parts in bold red):

"We are under Hamas occupation, and if you ask most of us, we would rather be under Israeli occupation… We miss the days when we were able to work inside Israel and make good money. We miss the security and calm Israel provided when it was here."

in no way represents the opinion of the vast majority of Palestinians.

 

[aris2chat]

You know there must be something seriously wrong with zionist thinking when you see a zionist starting a thread trying to delegitimize the palestinian struggle against the jewish supremacist state and two other zionist posters post messages that directly contradict the main point being made by the OP, messages that clearly show the resistance movement (both peaceful and violent) has massive popular support among palestinians.

Originally posted by MJB12741
What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinians had their chance to have an independent state several times but kept refusing. Do you expect Israel to succumb to the demands of the Palestinians??

Gaza Belongs to Jews Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinian Arabs are just butt hurt that they lost.

What was the lesson learned?? Don't fuck with the Jews !!

Obviously the Palestinians never learned that lesson, as seen by the first and second intifada

Is Israel the Same as South Africa Page 75 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
There will never be a palestinian state.

sorry don't have the link to this one.

Not a contradiction. Palestinians had elections for 8 yrs, after Oslo. Hamas had not allowed elections to take place after they captured power in Gaza by force.
Palestinians have been offered statehood (or citizenship in the case of Jordan) several times, but have refused the offers. It is not a palestinian state they want, but all the land that is Israel (and Jordan in some cases) as well.
Syria claims and their right not just the land that was the Brit. mandate but all the Fr. mandate, parts of turkey, iraq and cyprus as well. Pan-arab wanted the MENA as a single state. Those wanting a new caliphate want it to include all states where there is/was any muslim population. Others want a single sect or interpretation of sharia for everyone.

 

[P F Tinmore]

MJB12741, et al,

I believe that People of Palestine (both Israeli and Arab) are evolving politically. Time will tell if it is towards a reconciliation of past grievances, or not. But both sides are growing weary of what seems to be a never ending conflict.

What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

(COMMENT)

Much of the current arguments, on both sides, is center both ancient historical aspects, and recent contemporary history within the last century. It is part feud --- a bitter, continuous hostility, between two cultures, that has evolved over many generations. It is part obstinacy --- stubborn quality being difficult to remedy based on a set of "unreconcilable differences."

Relative to the election of HAMAS by (substantially) the Gazan People, one has to as if the Gazan's were actually competent intellectually to understand the ramifications and consequences they made in that decision? (RHETORICAL) The election of HAMAS, if really a democratic process, assumes that the government is not only by the people and for the people, but actually subject to change by the people. One has to ask if the Gazan People actually understood that it would be a single election and that HAMAS (or any variant successor government) would actually be outside their control; one election and HAMAS forever. (again --- RHETORICAL) This is part and parcel, embedded in the idea of "duly elected."

Last June (2014), both HAMAS and Fatah formed what was called a "Unity Government" (an Arab variation of a Coalition Government) which has merely made the Government of President Mahmoud Abbas virtually hostage to any demand made by HAMAS. Included in the agreement was the design to have a general election in December (2014). Again, the world will see if the Palestinian People have the competency to re-establish the Government under the:

• 2003 Amended Basic Law (current)
• 2005 Amendment to the Basic Law(current)

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, thanks for the link.

1. If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall temporarily assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority for a period not to exceed sixty (60) days, during which free and direct elections to elect a new President shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.

It is Abbas who has not allowed that to happen. That is why there have been no elections since Abbas left the government in June of 2007.

 

[José]

Originally posted by aris2chat
Palestinians have been offered statehood (or citizenship in the case of Jordan) several times, but have refused the offers. It is not a palestinian state they want, but all the land that is Israel (and Jordan in some cases) as well.

You can't make this shit up, people.

As if it weren't enough to see two zionist posters, MJB and toastman, demolish the central point of the thread created by their "brother in arms", Aris decides to add insult to injury and joins the choir of ZIONIST voices shamelessly admiting that the fight for the right to live in western Palestine is a near unanimity among the palestinian people.

I have to remind MJB, toastman, Aris, etc... of their role in a forum where the IP conflict is debated:

You are all supposed to try to portray the palestinian people as innocent hostages of brutal hardliners (PLO - PA, Fatah, Hamas, etc...) who have been preventing them from making peace with Israel for the last 65 years!!!!

This is the grotesque caricature you are supposed to present here and try and sell to other posters.

You are supposed to deny any significant legitimacy and native popular support for the palestinian national struggle not the opposite.

 

[José]

Rocco is at least fulfilling the role expected from him... trying to delegitimize the palestinian groups, organizations, etc... posing peaceful or (in this case) armed resistance to Israel.

But how can he avoid being totally discredited in the eyes of posters who just follow the debate when he is "bombarded" by his own side?

When he falls victim of "friendly fire"?

When MJB, toastman and Aris are the first ones to demolish his argument according to which a small number of Palestinians prevent the vast majority from making peace with Israel unanimously stating that "it is not a palestinian state they want, but all the land that is Israel"?

With "friends" like these, Rocco doesn't even need PF Tinmore, challenger, beelzebub, fanger and yours truly.

Toastman, MJB, Aris... stop making our point for us!!

This is the role of the other side of the debate.

We're the ones who should be saying the fight against Israel (through both peaceful and violent means) is almost universally supported by the palestinian people.

What is left to debate when you all openly, surprisingly admit this truth, when you all concede this point in front of the whole board?

when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? MJB

to have an independent state several times but kept refusing toastman

the demands of the Palestinians?? toastman

the Palestinians never learned that lesson, as seen by the first and second intifada toastman

Palestinians have been offered statehood (or citizenship in the case of Jordan) several times, but have refused the offers. aris2chat

It is not a palestinian state they want, but all the land that is Israel. aris2chat

 

[RoccoR]

José_LA, et al,

While you are most probably correct, that the stories "in no way represents the opinion of the vast majority," it is evidence.

Originally posted by Daniyel
So once the "Noble Palestinian Struggle" dirt is leaking you turn the fingers to Israel? Typical.

Dani,

Direct your complains to the posters who actually posted those messages (MJB and toastman) not me.

They are the ones clearly stating the struggle against Israel enjoys huge popular support among palestinians.

They're the ones stating the palestinian quoted by Rocco (particularly the parts in bold red):

"We are under Hamas occupation, and if you ask most of us, we would rather be under Israeli occupation… We miss the days when we were able to work inside Israel and make good money. We miss the security and calm Israel provided when it was here."

in no way represents the opinion of the vast majority of Palestinians.

(REFERENCES)

• Hamas forced Gazans to remain in harm’s way

Mudran Zahran is a Palestinian writer and academic from Jordan who now resides in the UK as a political refugee. In the aftermath of the latest war between Israel and Hamas, he interviewedGazans to find out what …POWERLINE · 3 hours ago​

• Gazans Speak Out Against Hamas War Crimes

Although Gazans, fearful of Hamas's revenge against them ... Hamas shot some of those people as they were running; the rest were forced to return to their homes and get bombed. This is how the Shijaiya massacre …Modern Ghana · 10 hours ago​

• Gaza Residents: Hamas Kept Us from Fleeing Israeli Attacks

Hamas’s official Al-Quds TV regularly issued warnings to Gazans not to evacuate their homes ... Hamas shot some of those people as they were running; the rest were forced to return to their homes and get bombed. This is how the Shijaiya massacre …Commentary Magazine · ByEvelyn Gordon · 5 hours ago​

• In Gaza, hatred for Hamas and resentment of West Bankers

The ceasefire that was reached, many Gazans claim, is identical to the one offered to Hamasafter the first week of aerial strikes ... it is claimed, has already been forced to leave Gaza. Even while no one still knows for …YNET News · 23 hours ago​

• Hamas Shot Gazans Who Didn’t Want to be Human Shields

Some Gazans appear to be less than thrilled with Hamas. While Hamas polled well after the war ... Hamas shot some of those people as they were running; the rest were forced to return to their homes and get bombed.Front Page · 9/20/2014​

• Gazans Reveal Hamas War Crimes

Although Gazans, fearful of Hamas's revenge against them ... Hamas shot some of those people as they were running; the rest were forced to return to their homes and get bombed. This is how the Shijaiya massacre …Pakistan Defence · 9/20/2014​

(COMMENT)

"[There] was the need to protect Hamas from decline due to what is being termed internally as the “Arab Autumn.” (Hamas’ popularity hinges on war and politics)"

The people are not necessarily all enamored of HAMAS. There are indication that HAMAS has both internal troubles and external problems with holding support for what is gradually being perceived as continuing failures in being able to improved the quality of life for Gazans.

But then, that is part of this discussion.

Do you believe that HAMAS has, in the last 8 years of control, improved the overall conditions that the average Gazan is concerned about?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No problem, glad to share. I read most everything they publish that doesn't put me to sleep first.

Rocco, thanks for the link.

1. If the office of the President of the National Authority becomes vacant due to any of the above cases, the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council shall temporarily assume the powers and duties of the Presidency of the National Authority for a period not to exceed sixty (60) days, during which free and direct elections to elect a new President shall take place in accordance with the Palestinian Election Law.

It is Abbas who has not allowed that to happen. That is why there have been no elections since Abbas left the government in June of 2007.

(COMMENT)

While I have to agree, to an extent, that President Mahmoud Abbas had his part to play in the delay of elections, I also think that the Palestinian Executive, HAMAS, and others, had their parts to play as it unfolded.

More to the point, I believe that this fiasco demonstrates (some say travesty) just how unprepared the Palestinians are for self-rule.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

José_LA, et al,

I have to chuckle here.

When MJB, toastman and Aris are the first ones to demolish his argument according to which a small number of Palestinians prevent the vast majority from making peace with Israel unanimously stating that "it is not a palestinian state they want, but all the land that is Israel"?

With "friends" like these, Rocco doesn't even need PF Tinmore, challenger, beelzebub, fanger and yours truly.

Toastman, MJB, Aris... stop making our point for us!!

(COMMENT)

This is not "Friendly Fire." Everyone has the privilege to state their position the way they want. Every perspective counts, in my opinion; even the opposition has something to contribute.

BTW: I don't think that Toastman, MJB, Aris... are making your point. This is merely an attempt to derail the discussion.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[teddyearp]

You know there must be something seriously wrong with zionist thinking when you see a zionist starting a thread trying to delegitimize the palestinian struggle against the jewish supremacist state and two other zionist posters post messages that directly contradict the main point being made by the OP, messages that clearly show the resistance movement (both peaceful and violent) has massive popular support among palestinians.

Originally posted by MJB12741
What Hamas has done to the Palestinians is unforgivable. And now the Palestinians want the world to grieve & support them. But then, just how sorry can we feel for the Palestinian victims when it is they themselves who duly elected Hamas to lead them? It's called Palestinian mentality.

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinians had their chance to have an independent state several times but kept refusing. Do you expect Israel to succumb to the demands of the Palestinians??

Gaza Belongs to Jews Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
The Palestinian Arabs are just butt hurt that they lost.

What was the lesson learned?? Don't fuck with the Jews !!

Obviously the Palestinians never learned that lesson, as seen by the first and second intifada

Is Israel the Same as South Africa Page 75 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Originally posted by toastman
There will never be a palestinian state.

sorry don't have the link to this one.

You know there must be something seriously wrong with Pro-Palesinian thinking when you see a pro-peace for Israel starting a thread trying to legitimize or hint at the palestinian struggle against the extremist rulers of their state. Two other pro peace for Israel posters post messages that directly complement the main point being made by the OP, messages that in no way whatsoever show the resistance movement (both peaceful and violent) has massive popular support among Palestinians.

And it is even more clearly shown the fault with the Pro-Palestinian thinking when making such a post, one one of the four quotes actually belong to this thread. Unfortunately this is typical of Palestinian propaganda, divert, divide, deflect, etc. With these types of tactics there will never be peace in Israel.

 

[teddyearp]

RoccoR, thank you for the thread. I have read and posted about some of the media atrocities here before and have been highly suspect if all the mainstream Gazans are _really_ still in favor of Hamas. Of course when I have posted these questions here it usually ends up being the U.S. and Israel's (or just plain ZIONIST PIGS) fault that there are no more elections for the Palestinians.

 

[José]

Originally posted by RoccoR
I don't think that Toastman, MJB, Aris... are making your point.

Originally posted by teddyearp
And it is even more clearly shown the fault with the Pro-Palestinian thinking when making such a post, one one of the four quotes actually belong to this thread.

I don't recall putting a gun to toastman's head and forcing him to say that:

The Palestinians had their chance to have an independent state several times but kept refusing.

the demands of the Palestinians

the Palestinians never learned that lesson, as seen by the first and second intifada

Notice the word "Palestinians", ie, the palestinian people, not their political leadership only...

Also notice the word first and second "Intifada", ie, massive uprisings that by definition cannot occur without the people themselves.

Toastman is clearly saying the palestinian people is not distancing themselves from Hamas' main, final goal: the end of the state of Israel.

Same can be said about aris... he's clearly stating that Palestinians are perfectly aligned with Hamas' position about ending the jewish supremacist state... even those who do not advocate violence as a means to achieve it:

Palestinians have been offered statehood several times, but have refused the offers.

It is not a palestinian state they want, but all the land that is Israel (and Jordan in some cases) as well.

And what the hell does it matter which thread the quotes came from?

Are toastman and Aris internet trolls whose opinions change from thread to thread just to irritate people?

I can personally attest to the fact they aren't so WTF kind of stupid idea is that?

 

[José]

Originally posted by teddyearp
messages that in no way whatsoever show the resistance movement (both peaceful and violent) has massive popular support among Palestinians.

This thread becomes more and more embarrasing to Rocco with each new "friendly" poster that decides to participate.

Here is teddy saying the exact opposite of what he said above a few moments ago JUST TO BE CONTRARIAN:

Originally posted by teddy WHEN HE WAS NOT TRYING TO BE CONTRARIAN:
The problem is that this (the two-state solution) has been offered to the Palestinians, but they are the ones who refuse and want it all and the Jews out of the M.E.

Israel Breaches The Ceasefire Terms Page 3 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

In other words when teddy is not trying to score a cheap point in a debate he openly admits that nearly all palestinians share Hamas' ultimate goal: the end of the jewish racial dictatorship (even those who reject violence of any kind).