Guns & Drugs

[ToonTheNEws]

My thoughts are if you take away guns from law abiding citizens then just as with drugs the control goes to the criminal element. Just like alcohol prohibition, control went to thugs and organized crime and the war on drugs put the power in the hands of cartels...so would banning guns. It may seem counter itutive to conservative who covet the second amendment but the two issues are the same. If you say you can't take guns away from law abiding citizens because then only criminals will have control of guns and that is bad then you have to apply that same reasoning to the war on drugs. The control goes from the people and the govenment to the criminal element.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm always amazed that pot-heads want to equate the two. A gun never harmed anyone who used it properly. Guns have constructive social uses. Their ownership is protected explicitly in the Constitution, and many state constitutions as well.

Drugs OTOH undermine society. No society became great with widespread drug use and many fell because of it.

 

[ToonTheNEws]

I'm always amazed that pot-heads want to equate the two. A gun never harmed anyone who used it properly. Guns have constructive social uses. Their ownership is protected explicitly in the Constitution, and many state constitutions as well.

Drugs OTOH undermine society. No society became great with widespread drug use and many fell because of it.

FYI I suport the right to bear arms and have my CCW but since you mention dispairity in the numbers of negative efects here are some statitics you can look up for yourself
The land of the free, you can use (yr 2000 deaths)
Tobacco: 435,000
Unhealthy food/Not exercise: 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Prescription meds: 32,000
A gun: 29,000
But not cannabis: 0

Do you know how much pot it takes to kill you? about 1 ton...dropped on your head from 2 stories up!
So, life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness? Only if it’s a deadly, U.S. approved happiness.
The most dangerous thing about Cannabis is being arrested. In addition to the jail time, loss of employment opportunities & stigma, you can lose your rights to govt assistance such as student loans, housing etc. Rapists & murderers still qualify though FYI.

 

[TheFreedomator]

I'm always amazed that pot-heads want to equate the two. A gun never harmed anyone who used it properly. Guns have constructive social uses. Their ownership is protected explicitly in the Constitution, and many state constitutions as well.

Drugs OTOH undermine society. No society became great with widespread drug use and many fell because of it.

FYI I suport the right to bear arms and have my CCW but since you mention dispairity in the numbers of negative efects here are some statitics you can look up for yourself
The land of the free, you can use (yr 2000 deaths)
Tobacco: 435,000
Unhealthy food/Not exercise: 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Prescription meds: 32,000
A gun: 29,000
But not cannabis: 0

Do you know haw much pot it takes to kill you? about 1 ton...dropped on your head from 2 stories up!
So, life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness? Only if it’s a deadly, U.S. approved happiness.
The most dangerous thing about Cannabis is being arrested. In addition to the jail time, loss of employment opportunities & stigma, you can lose your rights to govt assistance such as student loans, housing etc. Rapists & murderers still qualify though FYI.

Well stated.

 

[Avatar4321]

Pursuit of happiness is key. But wickedness, never was happiness. You think polluting your bodies will make you happy?

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm always amazed that pot-heads want to equate the two. A gun never harmed anyone who used it properly. Guns have constructive social uses. Their ownership is protected explicitly in the Constitution, and many state constitutions as well.

Drugs OTOH undermine society. No society became great with widespread drug use and many fell because of it.

FYI I suport the right to bear arms and have my CCW but since you mention dispairity in the numbers of negative efects here are some statitics you can look up for yourself
The land of the free, you can use (yr 2000 deaths)
Tobacco: 435,000
Unhealthy food/Not exercise: 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Prescription meds: 32,000
A gun: 29,000
But not cannabis: 0

Do you know how much pot it takes to kill you? about 1 ton...dropped on your head from 2 stories up!
So, life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness? Only if it’s a deadly, U.S. approved happiness.
The most dangerous thing about Cannabis is being arrested. In addition to the jail time, loss of employment opportunities & stigma, you can lose your rights to govt assistance such as student loans, housing etc. Rapists & murderers still qualify though FYI.

Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

For a while I was OK with legalizing it. Then I thought, screw it. Why do we need mroe things for people to be irresponsible with?

 

[ToonTheNEws]

I'm always amazed that pot-heads want to equate the two. A gun never harmed anyone who used it properly. Guns have constructive social uses. Their ownership is protected explicitly in the Constitution, and many state constitutions as well.

Drugs OTOH undermine society. No society became great with widespread drug use and many fell because of it.

FYI I suport the right to bear arms and have my CCW but since you mention dispairity in the numbers of negative efects here are some statitics you can look up for yourself
The land of the free, you can use (yr 2000 deaths)
Tobacco: 435,000
Unhealthy food/Not exercise: 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Prescription meds: 32,000
A gun: 29,000
But not cannabis: 0

Do you know how much pot it takes to kill you? about 1 ton...dropped on your head from 2 stories up!
So, life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness? Only if it’s a deadly, U.S. approved happiness.
The most dangerous thing about Cannabis is being arrested. In addition to the jail time, loss of employment opportunities & stigma, you can lose your rights to govt assistance such as student loans, housing etc. Rapists & murderers still qualify though FYI.

Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

For a while I was OK with legalizing it. Then I thought, screw it. Why do we need mroe things for people to be irresponsible with?

Anyone who uses the "We don't need another intoxicant, we already have alcohol & cigarettes" or "Why do we need more things for people to be irresponsible with?" argument is using circular logic. We already have cannabis. If you support a failed policy that has spent BILLIONS upon BILLION of taxpayer dollars since the 30s in a fruitless attempt to prohibit what Americans obviously want (just like guns), a plant that has been in the service of mankind for thousands of years, you are acknowledging the existence of cannabis in society thus proving that cannabis has been here, is here and will continue to be here. The problem is prohibition.

As for doing the time..
The U.S. is 5% of the world’s population & has 25% of the world’s prisoners. 2008 cannabis arrests: 847,864, 754,224 for possession. This clogs our legal system & allows violent criminals early parole to make room for newly convicted, non violent cannabis users.

Who benefits from prohibition? Cartels, terrorists, law enforcement, oil, pharmacorps, & private prisons. Who pays? You do, BILLIONS annually


“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
Albert Einstein

Even law enforcement is now behind ending prohibition 2.0. Check out L.EA.P. Law enforcement against prohibition.
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs

 

[The Rabbi]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

 

[westwall]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

I will have to disagree with you here my friend. Drug laws have been nothing more than an assault on civil liberties. When the founding fathers started this country all drugs were legal. The methods used to pursue Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not to be determined by me, or you, or anyon else.

People are irresponsible with virtually anyting. Unfortunate ones will die because of it. This country became great because people were free to do what they wanted to. You must take the good with the bad (as you percieve it) for you to be a true American.

 

[ToonTheNEws]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

What do you call countless BILLIONs spent since the 30s????

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm always amazed that pot-heads want to equate the two. A gun never harmed anyone who used it properly.

I'm not sure pot ever harmed anyone who used it responsibly, either.

Toon has a good point.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Pursuit of happiness is key. But wickedness, never was happiness. You think polluting your bodies will make you happy?

Isn't that kind of his problem?

I don't smoke.

I don't smoke pot, cigars, cigarettes - nothing.

I have no desire to stop other people from smoking any of these - it's none of my business. I will not go to a restaurant that has people smoking in it, I vote with my wallet. I don't want government deciding whether a restaurant can allow people to smoke, let the consumer decide by frequenting the establishments that cater to their desires.


Liberty - what a concept...

 

[MaggieMae]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

I will have to disagree with you here my friend. Drug laws have been nothing more than an assault on civil liberties. When the founding fathers started this country all drugs were legal. The methods used to pursue Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not to be determined by me, or you, or anyon else.

People are irresponsible with virtually anyting. Unfortunate ones will die because of it. This country became great because people were free to do what they wanted to. You must take the good with the bad (as you percieve it) for you to be a true American.

I'm sure the founding fathers were clueless as to the health dangers of drugs commonly used simply because there was no science available to prove otherwise. Their obvious intent was to establish a set of guidelines for future generations to make the laws and rules that would best assure a healthy and safe society. A hundred years ago marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at the corner drugstore. No wonder the life expectancy was only 49 years.

 

[The Rabbi]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

I will have to disagree with you here my friend. Drug laws have been nothing more than an assault on civil liberties. When the founding fathers started this country all drugs were legal. The methods used to pursue Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not to be determined by me, or you, or anyon else.

People are irresponsible with virtually anyting. Unfortunate ones will die because of it. This country became great because people were free to do what they wanted to. You must take the good with the bad (as you percieve it) for you to be a true American.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

 

[westwall]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

I will have to disagree with you here my friend. Drug laws have been nothing more than an assault on civil liberties. When the founding fathers started this country all drugs were legal. The methods used to pursue Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not to be determined by me, or you, or anyon else.

People are irresponsible with virtually anyting. Unfortunate ones will die because of it. This country became great because people were free to do what they wanted to. You must take the good with the bad (as you percieve it) for you to be a true American.

I'm sure the founding fathers were clueless as to the health dangers of drugs commonly used simply because there was no science available to prove otherwise. Their obvious intent was to establish a set of guidelines for future generations to make the laws and rules that would best assure a healthy and safe society. A hundred years ago marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at the corner drugstore. No wonder the life expectancy was only 49 years.

I think the life expectancy was so low because people didn't eat nearly as well as we do, they didn't have the medical care we have today and they worked 10 to 12 hour days six days a week.

 

[westwall]

We just aren't serious enough about eradicating the problem. Singapore has very little in the way drug problems.

I will have to disagree with you here my friend. Drug laws have been nothing more than an assault on civil liberties. When the founding fathers started this country all drugs were legal. The methods used to pursue Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not to be determined by me, or you, or anyon else.

People are irresponsible with virtually anyting. Unfortunate ones will die because of it. This country became great because people were free to do what they wanted to. You must take the good with the bad (as you percieve it) for you to be a true American.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

That is correct, however, the Constitution is about INDIVIDUAL freedoms. If someone wants to sit in their room and smoke dope that's their right. Their responsiblity is to not do anything that will interfere with my ability to live my life as I wish. That is where laws should come in. Society should punish the criminal misuse of drugs not the lawful use...... Just like firearms.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I think the life expectancy was so low because people didn't eat nearly as well as we do, they didn't have the medical care we have today and they worked 10 to 12 hour days six days a week.

They probably ate far better - according to "experts." Most people ate a nearly vegetarian diet. Meat was either a seasoning or "Sunday Dinner" fare.

There are a lot of factors to why we live longer. One of the primary being that we DON'T really live all that much longer.

Life expectancy is an average. So if I take 100 people, add their life spans and divide, I get the average. But in the 19th century, the odds of making it past childhood were drastically lower. Those who did make it to adulthood generally made it into their 70's and 80's - but that average thing skewes the appearance of it all. Now we inoculate our children and we have antibiotics. Death before 12 is no longer a common thing.

 

[The Rabbi]

I will have to disagree with you here my friend. Drug laws have been nothing more than an assault on civil liberties. When the founding fathers started this country all drugs were legal. The methods used to pursue Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are not to be determined by me, or you, or anyon else.

People are irresponsible with virtually anyting. Unfortunate ones will die because of it. This country became great because people were free to do what they wanted to. You must take the good with the bad (as you percieve it) for you to be a true American.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

That is correct, however, the Constitution is about INDIVIDUAL freedoms. If someone wants to sit in their room and smoke dope that's their right. Their responsiblity is to not do anything that will interfere with my ability to live my life as I wish. That is where laws should come in. Society should punish the criminal misuse of drugs not the lawful use...... Just like firearms.

No, that is NOT what the COnstitution is about. The Constitution is about the role of the Federal Gov't in life. It provides limitations and powers, both on states and individuals.
But I don't see anything about protecting drug use in there. Can you cite that section? I do see something about firearms.
The Founders certainly believed in the idea of a self-regulating society with standards. Witness the debates about obscenity in the '50s and 60s.

 

[westwall]

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

That is correct, however, the Constitution is about INDIVIDUAL freedoms. If someone wants to sit in their room and smoke dope that's their right. Their responsiblity is to not do anything that will interfere with my ability to live my life as I wish. That is where laws should come in. Society should punish the criminal misuse of drugs not the lawful use...... Just like firearms.

No, that is NOT what the COnstitution is about. The Constitution is about the role of the Federal Gov't in life. It provides limitations and powers, both on states and individuals.
But I don't see anything about protecting drug use in there. Can you cite that section? I do see something about firearms.
The Founders certainly believed in the idea of a self-regulating society with standards. Witness the debates about obscenity in the '50s and 60s.

The Constitution as it was written, and indeed how US law in general is written, is simple, if it is metioned it is controlled, if it isn't you are free to do it. Liberals and statists are trying to change our system so that only those things that are specifically allowed are OK all others are illegal. That will be a nightmare if they can get it through.

 

[westwall]

I think the life expectancy was so low because people didn't eat nearly as well as we do, they didn't have the medical care we have today and they worked 10 to 12 hour days six days a week.

They probably ate far better - according to "experts." Most people ate a nearly vegetarian diet. Meat was either a seasoning or "Sunday Dinner" fare.

There are a lot of factors to why we live longer. One of the primary being that we DON'T really live all that much longer.

Life expectancy is an average. So if I take 100 people, add their life spans and divide, I get the average. But in the 19th century, the odds of making it past childhood were drastically lower. Those who did make it to adulthood generally made it into their 70's and 80's - but that average thing skewes the appearance of it all. Now we inoculate our children and we have antibiotics. Death before 12 is no longer a common thing.

You are mostly correct, however the average life expectancy was 38.3 years in 1850, but, once the person reached 10 years old their life expectancy jumps up to 58 years so you are correct the child mortality skews the results a lot.