Gun crime is down 4% in Britain...shootings in Britain up 23.3%....what?

[2aguy]

Yep......apparently they don't include shootings as gun crimes......Good thing the banned guns?

And yesterday one poster who will not be named...(candycorn) said that getting rid of guns would lower the murder rate....?

Murder rate up 44% last year in Britain...

London murder rates surged by 44 per cent last year and knife crime soared in capital, new figures show

While gun crime was down 4.6 per cent, shootings rose by 23.3 per cent — up 313 to 386 offences.

Also...

There were 30,609 violent muggings in the last 12 months, a rise of 36 per cent and the equivalent of 83 a day.

 

[del]

 

[depotoo]

Yeah, many countries skew their stats in lots of areas to get the result they want.

Yep......apparently they don't include shootings as gun crimes......Good thing the banned guns?

And yesterday one poster who will not be named...(candycorn) said that getting rid of guns would lower the murder rate....?

Murder rate up 44% last year in Britain...

London murder rates surged by 44 per cent last year and knife crime soared in capital, new figures show

While gun crime was down 4.6 per cent, shootings rose by 23.3 per cent — up 313 to 386 offences.

Also...

There were 30,609 violent muggings in the last 12 months, a rise of 36 per cent and the equivalent of 83 a day.

 

[Montrovant]

Yep......apparently they don't include shootings as gun crimes......Good thing the banned guns?

And yesterday one poster who will not be named...(candycorn) said that getting rid of guns would lower the murder rate....?

Murder rate up 44% last year in Britain...

London murder rates surged by 44 per cent last year and knife crime soared in capital, new figures show

While gun crime was down 4.6 per cent, shootings rose by 23.3 per cent — up 313 to 386 offences.

Also...

There were 30,609 violent muggings in the last 12 months, a rise of 36 per cent and the equivalent of 83 a day.

The article doesn't give a link to the actual statistics, unfortunately, but I would guess that gun crime indicates crimes committed with a gun, not simply shootings. That means that shootings can be up yet gun crimes still down; there may have been 50 more shootings but 200 fewer crimes committed with a gun, for example. Robbing someone at gunpoint might be a gun crime, even with no shot fired.

 

[depotoo]

Here is an article about it. It goes into even greater detail than what I am pasting here-

See also: “Police fail to report 1.4m crimes”, Jason Bennetto, The Independent, 1 Aug 2000

But that’s only through 2000. Has this problem gone away in recent years? No. An article published by The Telegraph in 2008 explained how “the true level of gun crime” is (still) “far higher than the Government admits in official statistics”:

Figures to be published by the Home Office this week will massively understate the scale of the problem.

Data provided to The Sunday Telegraph by nearly every police force in England and Wales, under freedom of information laws, show that the number of firearms incidents dealt with by officers annually is 60 per cent higher than figures stated by the Home Office.

Last year 5,600 firearms offences were excluded from the official figures. It means that, whereas the Home Office said there were only 9,800 offences in 2007/8, the real total was around 15,400. The latest quarterly figures, due to be released on Thursday, will again exclude a significant number of incidents.

The explanation for the gulf is that the Government figures only include cases where guns are fired, used to “pistol whip” victims, or brandished as a threat.

Thousands of offences including gun-smuggling and illegal possession of a firearm – which normally carries a minimum five-year jail sentence – are omitted from the Home Office’s headline count, raising questions about the reliability of Government crime data.

Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “These alarming new figures not only highlight the appalling state of gun crime in this country, but also remind us just how poor the Government’s statistics actually are.

“Crime statistics must also be compiled and published independent of the Home Office, and crime mapping rolled out so that people can have confidence in what they are being told about the state of crime in this country.”

Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said the figures revealed the extent to which gun crime is a “scar on society”.

“It is shocking that the Home Office is in denial about the extent of gun crime by refusing to include offences where a gun is present but not brandished,” he said.

“This is another strong reason why the Home Office should not be in charge of collecting its own statistics, which should be put directly under the responsibility of the Office for National Statistics.

“Gun crime must be treated with the same seriousness and concern as knife crime. Both are a scar on our society.”

In all, there were at least 5,612 offences excluded from the Home Office’s official gun crime total last year, according to figures supplied by police forces.

The true total number of excluded offences will have been even higher, because two of the 43 forces in England and Wales, Thames Valley and Leicestershire, failed to hand over their data when asked to do so under the Freedom of Information Act, and a large urban force, Greater Manchester, provided incomplete statistics. Scotland records gun crime differently.

When the Home Office publishes its latest quarterly crime figures on Thursday, they will include a section on gun crime injuries and deaths, but the figures will again exclude a significant number of incidents.

The Sunday Telegraph’s figures suggest that the Metropolitan Police’s official tally of 3,300 gun crimes in 2006/7, the most recent available, would have risen to around 5,000 if excluded categories had been counted. In 2007, Met officers dealt with 1,678 firearms incidents which were not included in the official tally. The Met’s figures show that offences of firearms possession in the capital rose from 850 five years ago to 1,400 last year.

After the Met, the second-highest number of offences excluded from the official statistics was recorded by West Midlands Police with 404, taking the force’s true annual total of gun crimes to around 1,400.

Similarly, The Independent has reported on a 2007 study which found that around TWO MILLION (2,000,000) violent crimes are excluded from the yearly British Crime Survey totals due to a “misleading” and “bizarre distortion in the Government’s flagship crime figures.”
Larry Pratt: British Gun Crime Stats are a “Sham” - The End Run | Research, news, and analysis

 

[2aguy]

Here is an article about it. It goes into even greater detail than what I am pasting here-

See also: “Police fail to report 1.4m crimes”, Jason Bennetto, The Independent, 1 Aug 2000

But that’s only through 2000. Has this problem gone away in recent years? No. An article published by The Telegraph in 2008 explained how “the true level of gun crime” is (still) “far higher than the Government admits in official statistics”:

Figures to be published by the Home Office this week will massively understate the scale of the problem.

Data provided to The Sunday Telegraph by nearly every police force in England and Wales, under freedom of information laws, show that the number of firearms incidents dealt with by officers annually is 60 per cent higher than figures stated by the Home Office.

Last year 5,600 firearms offences were excluded from the official figures. It means that, whereas the Home Office said there were only 9,800 offences in 2007/8, the real total was around 15,400. The latest quarterly figures, due to be released on Thursday, will again exclude a significant number of incidents.

The explanation for the gulf is that the Government figures only include cases where guns are fired, used to “pistol whip” victims, or brandished as a threat.

Thousands of offences including gun-smuggling and illegal possession of a firearm – which normally carries a minimum five-year jail sentence – are omitted from the Home Office’s headline count, raising questions about the reliability of Government crime data.

Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “These alarming new figures not only highlight the appalling state of gun crime in this country, but also remind us just how poor the Government’s statistics actually are.

“Crime statistics must also be compiled and published independent of the Home Office, and crime mapping rolled out so that people can have confidence in what they are being told about the state of crime in this country.”

Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, said the figures revealed the extent to which gun crime is a “scar on society”.

“It is shocking that the Home Office is in denial about the extent of gun crime by refusing to include offences where a gun is present but not brandished,” he said.

“This is another strong reason why the Home Office should not be in charge of collecting its own statistics, which should be put directly under the responsibility of the Office for National Statistics.

“Gun crime must be treated with the same seriousness and concern as knife crime. Both are a scar on our society.”

In all, there were at least 5,612 offences excluded from the Home Office’s official gun crime total last year, according to figures supplied by police forces.

The true total number of excluded offences will have been even higher, because two of the 43 forces in England and Wales, Thames Valley and Leicestershire, failed to hand over their data when asked to do so under the Freedom of Information Act, and a large urban force, Greater Manchester, provided incomplete statistics. Scotland records gun crime differently.

When the Home Office publishes its latest quarterly crime figures on Thursday, they will include a section on gun crime injuries and deaths, but the figures will again exclude a significant number of incidents.

The Sunday Telegraph’s figures suggest that the Metropolitan Police’s official tally of 3,300 gun crimes in 2006/7, the most recent available, would have risen to around 5,000 if excluded categories had been counted. In 2007, Met officers dealt with 1,678 firearms incidents which were not included in the official tally. The Met’s figures show that offences of firearms possession in the capital rose from 850 five years ago to 1,400 last year.

After the Met, the second-highest number of offences excluded from the official statistics was recorded by West Midlands Police with 404, taking the force’s true annual total of gun crimes to around 1,400.

Similarly, The Independent has reported on a 2007 study which found that around TWO MILLION (2,000,000) violent crimes are excluded from the yearly British Crime Survey totals due to a “misleading” and “bizarre distortion in the Government’s flagship crime figures.”
Larry Pratt: British Gun Crime Stats are a “Sham” - The End Run | Research, news, and analysis

Thanks........post this often.......

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Blacks, and Muslims aren't known for having good shooting aim..

 

[depotoo]

Yeah, I get so sick of the different comparisons from crime to healthcare, when people just assume others collect statsthe same way as the US.

You will read newborn deaths are so much higher here, yet other countries don’t include still births or even those within a couple of days of birth, as we do.

 

[rightwinger]

Too many guns

It is what you get

 

[2aguy]

Too many guns

It is what you get

No....they banned and confiscated guns...so their gun crime rates went up since normal gun owners don't commit crime...criminals still get guns and shoot people...

In the U.S.....more people now own and carry guns......and?

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.