Gun Control

[tjvh]

Lets be clear... Our founding fathers were not talking about muskets, they were talking about arms. It's easy to translate the Second Amendment in several directions when you are placing your ideology ahead of rational thought. It's when you read the other Amendments and how they were written, the Right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed is very clear. Militia? We are all part of a Militia were our Freedoms, and the future of our Country is considered. Gun grabbers want people to believe that by simply controlling guns, America will be a much safer place... They could not be more wrong. Gun control doesn't control guns that are obtained illegally, or are unregistered so that argument goes out the window. Criminals retain their guns. Criminals, and their crime increase when people cannot defend themselves. Gun control is about usurping people's Freedoms... About controlling people. Controlling Law abiding citizens in particular... The majority. Our Founders had the foresight to know that tyrants will always threaten Democracy and it's the reason they authored the 2A in the first place. The purpose of the 2A is keep power in the hands of the people, to allow them the Liberty to enjoy their Freedoms without becoming enslaved to a select few who profess to know what is best for them, but truly do not have their interests in mind. Power in the hands of the people give tyrants pause. The loony gun control nuts come out from under their rocks every time a tragedy like Columbine, or Sandy Hook arises for one reason... Not because they are outraged, but to further their tyrannical agenda. They will tell you how you must sacrifice your Freedoms for the common good, and many with compromised emotions will agree with them. In times of tragedy people need to take a step back and allow rational thinking to rule the day... Not knee jerk emotions. They will tell you that nobody needs this gun because it looks scary, or that gun because it accepts 30 round magazines, etc... It's all a load of crap. Make no mistake... Their endgame is always the same, disarm the American public so their own ideology will be allowed to fester and grow without fear of repercussions from those who willingly handed away their Freedoms while they were compromised by their emotions... The problem is that once you arbitrarily hand away your Rights and Freedoms, it isn't so easy to get them back. And once you let tyranny in the door, it's difficult to get it to leave... Especially when you are defenseless.

 

[Rshermr]

And brainless

 

[there4eyeM]

Again, though myself not necessarily in favor of 'gun control' (though indeed there are already many and various forms in place), the argument made seems false. The founders were indeed speaking of muskets in a era when a group of determined, armed men stood a chance of resisting another. That is a bygone era, and the argument for firearms to keep down the central government went away long ago.

 

[tjvh]

Again, though myself not necessarily in favor of 'gun control' (though indeed there are already many and various forms in place), the argument made seems false. The founders were indeed speaking of muskets in a era when a group of determined, armed men stood a chance of resisting another. That is a bygone era, and the argument for firearms to keep down the central government went away long ago.

Nonsense... They were speaking of arms... A fairly broad word. They were speaking of arms used to fight tyrannical out of control governments... Just as the musket was relevant then... The AR-15 is relevant today.

 

[tjvh]

And brainless

yup... Your response was exactly that.

 

[sparky]

Define tyranical governance....~S~

 

[tjvh]

Define tyranical governance....~S~

Those who desire to usurp people's Freedoms and remake America around their own twisted ideologies would sum up tyrannical governance fairly well.

 

[jtpr312]

Again, though myself not necessarily in favor of 'gun control' (though indeed there are already many and various forms in place), the argument made seems false. The founders were indeed speaking of muskets in a era when a group of determined, armed men stood a chance of resisting another. That is a bygone era, and the argument for firearms to keep down the central government went away long ago.

Really? Because just the past two years till today we have seen with our own eyes armed citizens not only keeping down the central govt, but overthrowing the central govt. and declaring their freedom. The US govt has been trying for 10yrs or so to defeat a small, when compared to the number of armed US citizens, band of "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan, UNSUCCESSFULLY I might add. Seems like that small band, never numbered more than in the tens of thousands, has defeated the mightiest army on the face of the earth...........this after defeating the 2nd most powerful army in the world a few short decades ago. You can never discount what a small, dedicated group of well armed men and woman are capable of. Too many regimes in world history have done so, to their detrimment. If even 1% of American LEGAL gun owners, forget the millions of illegal gun owners, resisted, you would have force of armed individuals much, much larger than the Mujahideen ever fielded against the Soviets, or the Taliban ever fielded against us. For you to say successful resistance against a tyrannical govt is a thing of a bygone era, it's obvious you know very little about current world events. The Founders NEVER intended our right to bear arms to be needed because of hunting, that was already a given as that was how most meat was gotten in those day, nor to protect you from rapists, car jackers or home invasions by criminal gangs, as we didn't have that large a problem with those things, it was meant to be the FINAL check and balance against the other three branches of Govt. as is evidenced by the very words found in our Declaration of Independence;
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


It may seem to be a bit of a trite expression, "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man a subject", but world history has shown us just how true this expression is and the Founders NEVER intended for "We the People" to be subjects. I don't know about you, or about most others here, but I know that I for one will never suibmit to any confiscation of my firearms, nor will I ever submit to any further restrictions on my God given, blood bought, 2nd Amendment rights, other than the sensible ones we already have in place, and I know there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of other intelligent, freedom loving, history believing, American gun owners that feel the same way. Our govt has proven over the years that it is capable of committing outrageous atrocities against it's own citizens, of opressing them at will, of locking them up for causing NO harm to other people or other's property and of strong arming us to impose it's will upon the citizenry. This WITH over 80,000,000 citizens armed with almost 300,000,000 firearms. How much worse do you think it would have been, and will be, without that deterent? I for one don't want to find out and I for one will never live to see my children and grandchildren grow up in a nation like that.
This issue, more than any other in our recent history, will be the single most dividing issue in this nation. If the govt signs into law a mandatory buy back program for legally obtained weapons, like many Socialist Democrats are proposing, or a national gun owners registry, like many in the Socialist Democratic Party are proposing to better control otherwise law abding citizens, they will not only be forcing previously law abiding citizens to become criminals and outlaws, they very well may be sowing the seeds for civil war. I have been in a nation torn apart by civil war and it's not something I would ever want to see in this nation, but I have also been to nations where the Iron boot of the govt stays on the throats of it's citizens and where it presses down unimpeded and at will, and I would rather see civil war than that come to this nation. With civil war there is hope, with the boot, there is only death and despair. You may trust our leaders to be the only ones armed in this nation, but I don't. They have proven over and over and over again that they are petty, vindictive, corrupt, self serving, uncaring, morally bankrupt and in many cases plain old evil.

 

[jtpr312]

Define tyranical governance....~S~

Google is for more than just looking for porn dude.
Tyrannical-1.Exercising power in a cruel or arbitrary way

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Define tyranical governance....~S~

When your elected representatives no longer listen to people that voted for them.

 

[akelch]

Let's look at what our Founders signed that was consider treason and they and their families would have been executed for.

Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you want power in the hands of The People, take away from Congress the power to tax people using different rates and rules.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Because just the past two years till today we have seen with our own eyes armed citizens not only keeping down the central govt, but overthrowing the central govt. and declaring their freedom."

What instance are you talking about? Libya? Those 'armed citizens' had a lot of help from outside and a lot more reason to fight than most US citizens. As for Afghanistan (or Vietnam), they are people who have been resisting for generations, know their terrain intimately, have nothing to lose and are fighting foreigners.

On the other hand, how long did the resistance hold out in Sarajevo? Everyone thought it would take months in a city and with high civilian casualties to get rid of the snipers alone . They were all dead in a week.

Around ten percent of the population was involved in the war for independence. They were lean, learned, forward-looking folks. There like is very rare today.

Macho chest pounding won't get it done. Dream all you like, the road to violent uprising in America would be so mined with propaganda that even those few convinced to actually shoot at someone would likely be regarded as terrorists.

It isn't with guns that things will change for the better; it is with better ideas.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

"Because just the past two years till today we have seen with our own eyes armed citizens not only keeping down the central govt, but overthrowing the central govt. and declaring their freedom."

What instance are you talking about? Libya? Those 'armed citizens' had a lot of help from outside and a lot more reason to fight than most US citizens. As for Afghanistan (or Vietnam), they are people who have been resisting for generations, know their terrain intimately, have nothing to lose and are fighting foreigners.

On the other hand, how long did the resistance hold out in Sarajevo? Everyone thought it would take months in a city and with high civilian casualties to get rid of the snipers alone . They were all dead in a week.

Around ten percent of the population was involved in the war for independence. They were lean, learned, forward-looking folks. There like is very rare today.

Macho chest pounding won't get it done. Dream all you like, the road to violent uprising in America would be so mined with propaganda that even those few convinced to actually shoot at someone would likely be regarded as terrorists.

It isn't with guns that things will change for the better; it is with better ideas.

You don't get out much, do you.

The United States has the largest standing militia in the entire world. Over 300 million firearms are currently in circulation in the United States, and several million people are very proficient at using firearms.

The leftist government in this country better be VERY concerned about this fact. There is a line, and the Obamanistas are getting very close to crossing that line.

In a war between the "makers" and the "takers", I'll bet the house on the "makers".

 

[there4eyeM]

Seeing that the armed forces of the US are prepared to do whatever they are ordered to do, the few extremists who would ever go so far as insurrection will rapidly become the buyers and occupants of a very small farm.

In a war between the thinkers and the thoughtless, no one will bet on the latter.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If you want power in the hands of The People, take away from Congress the power to tax people using different rates and rules.

Oh but that would be FAIR!!!! Those rich people have to pay.

 

[there4eyeM]

Rich people care about fair?

 

[Erand7899]

Seeing that the armed forces of the US are prepared to do whatever they are ordered to do, the few extremists who would ever go so far as insurrection will rapidly become the buyers and occupants of a very small farm.

In a war between the thinkers and the thoughtless, no one will bet on the latter.

You make a false assumption that the armed forces of the United States would surely support the government and not the people. The members of the armed forces are Americans first and soldiers second.

If a serious uprising ever occurred, the military would be split, with some supporting the government and others supporting the insurrection. We would suffer another civil war, with hundreds of thousands of casualties and an unknown outcome.

 

[there4eyeM]

Any 'uprising' would be out in the countryside somewhere, not in cities where most people like the government or are totally apathetic. The 'rebels' would be isolated and easy to encircle. The situation would never be so clear that they were widely regarded as heroes or just. They would be squashed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Any 'uprising' would be out in the countryside somewhere, not in cities where most people like the government or are totally apathetic. The 'rebels' would be isolated and easy to encircle. The situation would never be so clear that they were widely regarded as heroes or just. They would be squashed.

Two words learn them and research them

Asymmetric warfare