Greece tells banking cartel STICK IT

[Toro]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

It's a legitimate way to restructure a bank. Deposits are a liability of the bank. A bust bank has to restructure its liabilities. That can include deposits. Before FDIC, banks did that all the time in America.

 

[The Rabbi]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

It's a legitimate way to restructure a bank. Deposits are a liability of the bank. A bust bank has to restructure its liabilities. That can include deposits. Before FDIC, banks did that all the time in America.

I think you're confusing assets with liabilities. If the government is taking people's deposits, it is confiscating an asset of the depositors and a liability of the bank.

 

[Toro]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

I don't know how the hell they sell THAT to their people.

Maybe some kind of "us against them" rallying cry, who knows.

.

Its pretty simple: If they dont do this then all those pension checks and welfare benefits wont get paid. Since those without bank accounts outnumber those with bank accounts, who will get the short end here?

The only way that people in Greece don't get their standards of living cut further is if Europe, ie Germany, bails them out. If Greece doesn't get another loan, they will be right out of money and will probably have to start reissuing drachmas. There is no other way.

In the end, that's probably the best way. Greece leaves the eurozone, reissues its own currency, then restructures its debt.

 

[Mac1958]

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

I don't know how the hell they sell THAT to their people.

Maybe some kind of "us against them" rallying cry, who knows.

.

Its pretty simple: If they dont do this then all those pension checks and welfare benefits wont get paid. Since those without bank accounts outnumber those with bank accounts, who will get the short end here?

The only way that people in Greece don't get their standards of living cut further is if Europe, ie Germany, bails them out. If Greece doesn't get another loan, they will be right out of money and will probably have to start reissuing drachmas. There is no other way.

Yeah, and Merkel is not exactly in a giving spirit right now. Can't blame her.

.

 

[SAYIT]

As a European myself, I will be thrilled if, this week, Greece is out of the Euro. The bastards actually called Germans terrorists and accused Germany of causing a social holocaust...

First the good news: Greek FM Varoufakis - the lying, bigmouthed jackass responsible for many of his gov'ts outrageous comments - has resigned.
Now the bad news: At age 54 he is probably eligible for a healthy Greek pension and the Germans may be required - by Greek referendum, of course - to pay for it.

 

[SAYIT]

They shouldn't have accepted the bailout in 2010, and instead followed Iceland by jailing the bankers and letting the banks default on their own mistakes.

But what is done is done, and I hope that they manage to get out the abyss.

The IMF/ECB plan was a joke, and it would have not only forced taxpayers across Europe to fund a money hole, but forced Greeks to sell the country off and eventually default on their debt anyway - making a bigger money hole than if they default this year.

If it I was up to me, I wouldn't have let it get this far. It would have been better to not intervene at all than push a bailout that Greeks couldn't afford to pay, with conditions so insane that they could only plunge Greece into economic depression and a debt spiral.

The politicians in the European Union were idiots, as were the economists and bureaucrats who pushed more and more demands on Greece for the bailout, forcing the collapse of the Greek government - because the demands had reached the limit of what Greeks were prepared to accept. Syriza and the collapse of the bailout deal is the result.

Sounds like banks in the U.S. approving mortgages for people that couldn't afford the payments. Sound familiar?

This is world class corrupt banking thievery. The vultures see easy prey and try to suck the life out of it. Who could blame Greece for going to Russia now?

I have to try and think on the positive. At least as a result of this mess Greece has got rid of most of the leaches in the establishment, and with the constant shadow of debt and economic strife they are going to be held constantly to account by the Greek public - unlike the governments previous to 2009 who were able to promise stuff the country couldn't afford (and cheat the books) to keep in power.

Russia doesn't have the money to fund Greece. If they go to Russia, Russia too will impose their own strings on the money, and yet the amount of money they could borrow would be a tiny fraction of what is needed, thus it wouldn't help.

What strings could Russia impose? Allowing their major companies to come and "prey and try to suck the life out of it".

And as far as getting rid of the leaches, that's not what I've read. If anything, this was to restore public leeches back into the cash flow.

Never said they would hand over the money, if anything they might get a few subsidies and possibly a trade deal - but not a massive cash injection.

Ultimately though if Greece left Nato it could cut its military budget a lot, and even be paid by Russia to lease areas for a military base.

But that is in the worst case scenario, where Greece is kicked out of the Eurozone.

As near as I can tell, Greece only spends about 5% of their national budget on defense spending.

Further, NATO is paying lease payments for two bases, and for use of an airport. One of those bases is leased by the US.

If you think that Russia is going to pay a fraction as much as the US does for that base, or NATO does for either one... you are crazy.

Swapping NATO for Russian defense, would be a net loss of income, and unless Greece wants to be defenseless, they would have to step up their own defense spending.

So no, that idea is ridiculous.

Lastly, a huge injection of money, is exactly what the Greek government wants. If they didn't want a massive injection of cash, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The government of Greece to tell off the EU, and the IMF, and the ECB, and everyone, in 5 seconds.

They could cut their spending, until it matched their tax revenue, and without a need for a loan, completely ignore everyone.

But that's not what they want. They want to spend money on hospitals, pensions, entitlements, housing, food, mass transit, and on and on and on.

But they don't have the money. That's why many hospitals are closed, those that are open, have unpaid staff, and many are without supplies. Pensions have been cut. Railways have been shut. And government workers have gone on strike because they are not paid.

The whole reason Greece went to the EU, is because they want a huge injections of money. If they ditch the EU, and go to Russia, they are not getting it from Russia. They'll be forced to cut spending anyway. Forced to cut pensions, and forced to close the mass transit. Thus defeating the entire purpose of trying to get a loan to begin with.

Well said and to summarize: Greece can wiggle and squirm and referendum all they like but in the end (which is near) she will be forced to cut spending and streamline (fire people) gov't agencies. Period.

 

[The Rabbi]

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

I don't know how the hell they sell THAT to their people.

Maybe some kind of "us against them" rallying cry, who knows.

.

Its pretty simple: If they dont do this then all those pension checks and welfare benefits wont get paid. Since those without bank accounts outnumber those with bank accounts, who will get the short end here?

The only way that people in Greece don't get their standards of living cut further is if Europe, ie Germany, bails them out. If Greece doesn't get another loan, they will be right out of money and will probably have to start reissuing drachmas. There is no other way.

In the end, that's probably the best way. Greece leaves the eurozone, reissues its own currency, then restructures its debt.

Germany bailing them out wont help. What happens when the money from that bailout ends, just like the others have?
Greece is not sustainable. I suspect even without interest payments on government debt they cannot cover their expenses. Even bankrupting on the debt, i.e. default, will not solve that problem.
They need a thorough re-ordering of their economy. But that wont happen without revolution.
Maybe time to restore the monarchy?

 

[Mr Natural]

What Greece needs is some industry. What do they produce?

Other than tourism (which is fine if you're a small Caribbean island) they have nothing.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What Greece needs is some industry. What do they produce?

Other than tourism (which is fine if you're a small Caribbean island) they have nothing.

^ This!

I thought all they needed was roads and bridges and consumers?

 

[SAYIT]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

I don't know how the hell they sell THAT to their people.

Maybe some kind of "us against them" rallying cry, who knows.

.

Its pretty simple: If they dont do this then all those pension checks and welfare benefits wont get paid. Since those without bank accounts outnumber those with bank accounts, who will get the short end here?

Greece will issue pension and wage IOUs in lieu of Euros (which they don't have) but they won't be worth the paper they'll be printed on.
Then the REAL austerity sets in.

 

[SAYIT]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

How is Greece going to force the banks to lend it more money? I hope the banks aren't foolish enough to do it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

I don't know how the hell they sell THAT to their people.

Maybe some kind of "us against them" rallying cry, who knows.

.

Its pretty simple: If they dont do this then all those pension checks and welfare benefits wont get paid. Since those without bank accounts outnumber those with bank accounts, who will get the short end here?

It's the socialist idea of economic justice.
Grab a hammer and sickle, comrade!

 

[Toro]

They appear to be hoping to shame people into loaning them money, holding their people for ransom.

It's a high-risk, lousy investment, and everyone knows it, that's why they want Greece on its own.

.

I heard the plan was they will simply confiscate money in people's bank accounts, calling it a "bail in".
Gov't will always go where the money is. Same reason people rob banks.

I don't know how the hell they sell THAT to their people.

Maybe some kind of "us against them" rallying cry, who knows.

.

Its pretty simple: If they dont do this then all those pension checks and welfare benefits wont get paid. Since those without bank accounts outnumber those with bank accounts, who will get the short end here?

The only way that people in Greece don't get their standards of living cut further is if Europe, ie Germany, bails them out. If Greece doesn't get another loan, they will be right out of money and will probably have to start reissuing drachmas. There is no other way.

In the end, that's probably the best way. Greece leaves the eurozone, reissues its own currency, then restructures its debt.

Germany bailing them out wont help. What happens when the money from that bailout ends, just like the others have?
Greece is not sustainable. I suspect even without interest payments on government debt they cannot cover their expenses. Even bankrupting on the debt, i.e. default, will not solve that problem.
They need a thorough re-ordering of their economy. But that wont happen without revolution.
Maybe time to restore the monarchy?

It's sustainable if the eurozone becomes a permanent transfer union. Then it works.

 

[SAYIT]

It's sustainable if the eurozone becomes a permanent transfer union. Then it works.

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” - Margaret Thatcher

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

we owe 18 Trillion dollars!!

Thanks Dubya!

Uhm, perhaps you've been sleeping for the last 6 years or so.... Shrub's gone.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[hipeter924]

As near as I can tell, Greece only spends about 5% of their national budget on defense spending.

Greece spends 2.4%+ of GDP (which is roughly 242.2 billion) on defense, which translates to roughly 5 billion a year on defense - which would have been more than enough to make the payment to the IMF: Why Greece s military budget is so high - Business Insider

For 2015, NATO projects that Greece will spend 2.4% of its GDP on defense, which is actually a 0.1% increase in spending over 2014. The previous year, the country's debt as percentage of GDP was at 175%, while its economy contracted by 3.3%.

Greek military spending is hardly chump change.

Further, NATO is paying lease payments for two bases, and for use of an airport. One of those bases is leased by the US. If you think that Russia is going to pay a fraction as much as the US does for that base, or NATO does for either one... you are crazy. Swapping NATO for Russian defense, would be a net loss of income, and unless Greece wants to be defenseless, they would have to step up their own defense spending.

Where did I imply they would receive more but that is beside the point, as it is hypothetical - meaning Russia hasn't specified how much it would pay for a lease. Russia spent at least $4 billion a year on their base in Crimea (including the gas subsidies,etc to Ukraine): Factbox - Costs and benefits from Russia s annexation of Crimea Reuters

Russia has formally denounced the 2010 Kharkiv Agreements under which Russiaprovided a $100 (59.83 pounds) discount per thousand cubic metres for Ukraine's imports of Russian gas as rent for the Sevastopol naval base, home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. The deal, which extended the base lease until 2042, cost Russia's budget around $4 billion a year, or around $40 billion over the period covered by the gas contract expiring in 2019.

It could pay out just as much as the US military base, if not more so, but it ultimately depends on how much they want a base in the Mediterranean.

Lastly, a huge injection of money, is exactly what the Greek government wants. If they didn't want a massive injection of cash, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The government of Greece to tell off the EU, and the IMF, and the ECB, and everyone, in 5 seconds.

They could cut their spending, until it matched their tax revenue, and without a need for a loan, completely ignore everyone.

They can't cut their spending sufficiently, even if they were to do so, as their debt exceeds $300 billion+, and with a recession and declining GDP their tax revenue shrinks each year. They are not going to get a substantial enough cash injection to revive their economy, as the bailout terms are the anti-thesis of stimulating growth.

But that's not what they want. They want to spend money on hospitals, pensions, entitlements, housing, food, mass transit, and on and on and on.

But they don't have the money. That's why many hospitals are closed, those that are open, have unpaid staff, and many are without supplies. Pensions have been cut. Railways have been shut. And government workers have gone on strike because they are not paid.

Even if they cut every public service in Greece, and privatized everything they could, they still wouldn't be able to meet those bills. Though realistically cutting services and pensions (or the only lifeline for millions of Greeks), wouldn't help the domestic economy and instead local retailers would suffer a hit and many would be forced to close - as there would be less consumers spending in the economy.

The whole reason Greece went to the EU, is because they want a huge injections of money. If they ditch the EU, and go to Russia, they are not getting it from Russia. They'll be forced to cut spending anyway. Forced to cut pensions, and forced to close the mass transit. Thus defeating the entire purpose of trying to get a loan to begin with.

Even if Greece left the EU, which is a hypothetical at this point, it would still be required to pay back its creditors, and it is in no hurry to leave the EU and its institutions. It isn't as if they are going to have a clean slate and walk away, as that isn't how it works - they will have a red card in the monetary system till they come to an agreement with their creditors.

Though I think you are getting confused between the Eurozone (which is the monetary union) and the European Union, because a country can remain in the European Union but not be fully part of the Eurozone. The UK for example is not fully part of the Eurozone, and instead has its own currency: Eurozone - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

On the question of pensions again, the way it goes down is that Greece has to give up on the Euro, then it has to start sending IOUs till it eventually moves to its own currency. They won't be forced to cut pensions and close mass transit, if they cut spending in other areas - which seems to be what Greece wants in negotiation with its creditors.

It is too early to know what will happen with pensions, as if Greece switches to its own currency it would begin to devalue, and pensions would be worth less and less; and obviously the Drachma would buy less than the Euro.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

and Spaniards and Italians.......

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Who needs to repay their debts anyway ??? The EU should have cut Greece off a long time ago.
What to do when you can no longer borrow and spend ?
Leeching's obvious consequences have come home to roost.

Comical

 

[Misty]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Moron. You can't blame republicans for Greece. You ruined your point with your partisan hackery.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Remember the debt ceiling hostage and they scared us into thinking if we didn't give them what they wanted the economy would collapse? Same thing they're doing in Greece right now. Remember Detroit went bankrupt? It was a test case for the rich and powerful to see if they could get away with doing it Detroit next Hartford or your any day American city could be next. Why? How? Because they have already gotten away with it and will again. Most people don't even realize the 2007 TARP bailout was a bank robbery nothing more or less

Total investment by TARP 426 billion, total paid back 441 billion.

The tax payers made money on the bailout.