Greece Is An Example of the Failures of Socialism

[thereisnospoon]

The op is anti-civilization...Governments have been paving roads, funding science and educating their children for thousands of year. Your idea of private everything is the stupidest thing imaginable.

Oh? How so?
And what is it that makes you think government is the best steward of OUR money?
Have you had a look at their track record?

 

[thereisnospoon]

There are many factors that together have put Greece in the situation it is in.

"Socialism" is not one of them.

Baloney. That's just denial.

 

[thereisnospoon]

wonder if the Germans will bail those idiots out or just let the country burn?

Unfortunately, Germany is a in a tough spot. If they don't bail out Greece, AGAIN, the whole of the EU will be adversely affected.
If I am the German Premier, I am getting my country OUT of the EU....The Swiss were smart. They saw the foolishness of this multi-national charade

 

[g5000]

The Greeks are about a find out a very hard lesson about Socialism. Eventually you run out of other people's money.

The Greek government has ordered a mandatory transfer of cash reserves from state-owned enterprises to its central bank, in a desperate bid to gather enough cash to remain solvent.

Citing "extremely urgent and unforeseen needs”, the government issued the emergency decree which will apply to all local government bodies immediately.

Greece orders raid on government coffers as cash dwindles - Telegraph

Greece was taught by Goldman Sachs how to hide their debt so more bonds could be issued for Goldman Sachs to package, sell, and collect fees on. Wasn't that nice of them?

 

[thereisnospoon]

wonder if the Germans will bail those idiots out or just let the country burn?

The Germans have already bailed out those idiots several times. They have exhausted their patience. Teh Greeks agreed to austerity and then turned around and hired workers who had been laid off and gave raises to everybody.
Greece's economy is totally fucked, and yes by socialism. They have endeavored to protect every industry and erected barriers to entry so high no one would start a business. I am unaware of any other country that requires stool samples from its shareholders to begin operations.
To Start An Online Store In Greece You Have To Do Something Pretty Gross - Business Insider
The bureaurcracy is incredinly bloated. Someone can retire with full benefits at age 50. Just like unions here are pressing for, pension benefits are bleeding the government dry.
The EU needs to kick out those lying assholes and let them sink into chaos.

The socialist theory is to insure no one gets ahead. Socialism=equality of outcome....Both are incompatible with liberty, freedom and individual rights

 

[thereisnospoon]

No '-ism' is any greater than the people who operate it. From Christianism to Communism, corruption is the result of taking power.
Being afraid of a word is not very adult. We should be able to discuss anything without knee-jerk recourse to preconceived vitriol. Certainly, modern industrial countries are a mixture of '-isms'. 'Pure' capitalism, whatever that might be, doesn't exist, nor would it be 'best'. America functions with a blend of social and private efforts.
The test should be, 'What is best for humans.' Putting ideology before reason is error.

Our "ism" does the best for the most.

 

[Zander]

Greece didn't have "real socialism"....right LWNJ's? They didn't go far enough ? Right?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Communism is when Government owns Industry and runs it.

No it isn't. communism is what remains after the socialist 'government' is supposed to 'wither away'

Nowhere does marx call for government to own Industry. Nowhere.

This is a common misconception among the uneducated. He calls for the 'COLLECTIVE' ownership of the means of production. i.e. He calls for the workers to own the means of production -- NOT the government.

What passes for education in this Country is a joke

Correct. However, there has to be an all powerful entity to control and operate the collective. That entity requires financing in order to operate. That entity just happens to be government. Eventually the power structure is contained entirely within the walls of government.

 

[Siete]

the Greeks wanted a piece of the American housing pie, and invested their asses off on allll the bad loan bundle packages the banks were passing out like gumdrops ... well, they got some bad candy didn't they ..

oooooopsie

 

[there4eyeM]

the Greeks wanted a piece of the American housing pie, and invested their asses off on allll the bad loan bundle packages the banks were passing out like gumdrops ... well, they got some bad candy didn't they ..

oooooopsie

Was that Socialist (not necessarily directed at this poster)?

 

[Meathead]

OK. Greece has never had a very generous welfare state in the sense Americans think. What it did have were tremendously powerful public employee unions with very generous working conditions. Employees received 14 months of salary (half Easter and summer and a full month at Xmas), retirements that could kick in as early as 50 years of age, one month paid vacation and job security that would make even tenured teachers green with envy.

These unions succeeded in toppling any government that trifled with their "workers rights", tried to cull the bloated bureaucracy or attempted privatization of the mind-boggling reaches of the state. Add to that the cronyism in allotting jobs to political patrons and Greece wound up with a public sector accounting for roughly 30% of all employees, many of who rarely showed up for work if at all, because they really had nothing to do.

Tax evasion and corruption were rampart, and the former was under the auspices of the public sector while the latter was in the private.

Anybody who thinks that socialism in Greece was not part-and-parcel of Greece's insolvency is either a hack or ignorant, or both I suppose.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If Greece is an example of the failure of socialism, does that make most of the rest of Europe an example of the success of socialism?

'Scuse me?..Success? What success?....Half teh EU countries are in fiscal trouble. The ones that aren't will be if the carnage continues.
Many of the EU countries are dialing back their social safety nets. Including the one nation you people trumpet with nauseating regularity..Denmark.
Yes even Happy Land is making adjustments to it's safety net.
You all set now there, Mr Drive By Poster?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The op is anti-civilization...Governments have been paving roads, funding science and educating their children for thousands of year.

Nobody is talking about those things. I'm referring to the vast entitlement state they created.

Your idea of private everything is the stupidest thing imaginable.

Are you afraid I'm going to supplant you?

An entitlement state is socialism? Oh, let's also ignore the successful entitlement states, Nordic countries?

Then MOVE to one of them.....

 

[Marxist]

The op is anti-civilization...Governments have been paving roads, funding science and educating their children for thousands of year.

Nobody is talking about those things. I'm referring to the vast entitlement state they created.

Your idea of private everything is the stupidest thing imaginable.

Are you afraid I'm going to supplant you?

An entitlement state is socialism? Oh, let's also ignore the successful entitlement states, Nordic countries?

Then MOVE to one of them.....

Can't afford to leave my family.

 

[Siete]

the Greeks wanted a piece of the American housing pie, and invested their asses off on allll the bad loan bundle packages the banks were passing out like gumdrops ... well, they got some bad candy didn't they ..

oooooopsie

Was that Socialist (not necessarily directed at this poster)?

socialism wasn't the reason the Greeks blew it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

There are many factors that together have put Greece in the situation it is in.

"Socialism" is not one of them.

Only if you only take 'socialism' to mean pure socialism and not what the posters here use the term as (the idea that the government needs to redistribute the wealth to those more 'deserving')

Again, the word 'socialism' is being misused.

Let's call it 'redistributionism' because that might be more accurate.

The reason socialism is so difficult to describe is because there has never been a successful socialist economy.

Bird brained egghead revolutionary despots keep trying and failing and another despot and moron tries it again and fails and another idiot tries it and fails and another douchebag tries it and fails, etc ad nauseam.... All in a slightly different way

But they all have one thing in common -- Redistribution of wealth -- and failure.

Capitalism sucks but it is the only economic system in history that works in the support of a free society.

EVERY other system ever devised inevitably falls into totalitarianism..... Every time

Except for:
Sweden
Norway
Finland
Denmark
Germany
France
Canada
Switzerland
Japan
....

Even the US but I don't think you get what socialist country is... As soon as you tax people to offer a service for the overall good then you are effectively redistributing wealth. That is Economics 101.
Now name me a country with no roads, army, education....
Somalia, the closest country to no socialism in the world.

Denmark can be dropped from your list. That country's government is being forced as a matter of fiscal survival to rethink its vaunted social safety net.
Socialism works as long as two things continue.
One, the portion of the society that is taxed remains complicit.
Two, there is a solid work ethic.
Once the people come to the realization that it is easier to collect than to work for a living, down that road there is a tipping point.
No system is by no means perfect. I will take this one....
If you want to pay the confiscatory taxes seen in your list, go right ahead. Leave the rest of us out of your schemes

 

[thereisnospoon]

The op is anti-civilization...Governments have been paving roads, funding science and educating their children for thousands of year.

Nobody is talking about those things. I'm referring to the vast entitlement state they created.

Your idea of private everything is the stupidest thing imaginable.

Are you afraid I'm going to supplant you?

An entitlement state is socialism? Oh, let's also ignore the successful entitlement states, Nordic countries?

Then MOVE to one of them.....

Can't afford to leave my family.

Then you'll just have to deal with what we have here. Which is not going to change.

 

[g5000]

the Greeks wanted a piece of the American housing pie, and invested their asses off on allll the bad loan bundle packages the banks were passing out like gumdrops ... well, they got some bad candy didn't they ..

oooooopsie

Cool story, bro.

They invested in their own little bubble. All kinds of public works and other government projects.

There was one particularly bad investment in a railroad scheme.

Beware of Greeks Bearing Bonds Vanity Fair

 

[thereisnospoon]

the Greeks wanted a piece of the American housing pie, and invested their asses off on allll the bad loan bundle packages the banks were passing out like gumdrops ... well, they got some bad candy didn't they ..

oooooopsie

Was that Socialist (not necessarily directed at this poster)?

socialism wasn't the reason the Greeks blew it.

Sure it wasn't.....Right.
Then go live there....

 

[Siete]

the Greeks wanted a piece of the American housing pie, and invested their asses off on allll the bad loan bundle packages the banks were passing out like gumdrops ... well, they got some bad candy didn't they ..

oooooopsie

Was that Socialist (not necessarily directed at this poster)?

socialism wasn't the reason the Greeks blew it.

Sure it wasn't.....Right.
Then go live there....

Then go live there.

Brilliant ! Think of that one all by yourself ?