Great Britain fines free speech during Olympics

[Valerie]

Are you going to give me $4K for that name you called me? Or are you going to be a hypocrite too?

Disillusioned dope, it is! lol

So you can't answer me directly? You can only insult? Sorry I have no interest in childish antics. Consider this a warning. If you don't want to engage in serious dialogue then you shall be ignored like so many trolls before you.

So what is it? You going to give me $4k for your hurtful speech or are you going to admit it's wrong to fine free speech? If it's option c, then I'm going to need actual rationale that goes beyond a character attack of I'm "disillusioned." If you think that then shut the fuck up and don't ever talk to me.

Oooh I almost forgot the dramatic part...





Disillusioned dramatic dope it is!

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Disillusioned dope, it is! lol

So you can't answer me directly? You can only insult? Sorry I have no interest in childish antics. Consider this a warning. If you don't want to engage in serious dialogue then you shall be ignored like so many trolls before you.

So what is it? You going to give me $4k for your hurtful speech or are you going to admit it's wrong to fine free speech? If it's option c, then I'm going to need actual rationale that goes beyond a character attack of I'm "disillusioned." If you think that then shut the fuck up and don't ever talk to me.

Oooh I almost forgot the dramatic part...





Disillusioned dramatic dope it is!

Whatever. I don't care if you call me a name as long as you make some attempt to have reasoned dialogue. You are refusing to do that in true troll fashion and you are now ignored. I don't have time for people like you. I'm a grown up.

 

[California Girl]

Small point__ it was a basketball game, not the opening ceremony.

And the article mentions that he made Nazi hand gestures, whatever that means. But specifically, I believe he was fined $4K for his "racist" comment; in other words a hurtful comment. You are making hurtful comments. Are you going to pay me $4K now or are you going to be a hypocrite?

Facts and Jillian parted company some time ago.

The FACT remains, the man was rightfully fined and removed from the venue.

I'm not questioning that. I'm questioning how Jillian can't tell the difference between an Olympic Opening Ceremony and a Basketball Game. It's a competency related issue. I'm not that into sports, but I'm pretty confident I could tell the difference.

 

[Valerie]

...

When, however, you begin to consider the possible range of expression --including, say, hate speech that incites violence -- it becomes apparent that even a tolerant society has to put some limits on freedom of expression.Therefore, much of the law relating to free speech is concerned with trying to strike the right balance between freedom of expression and the use (or abuse) of that freedom in a way that harms society.

Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights itself recognises the need for some limits on free expression. It provides, however, that limits can only be imposed in order to achieve certain specified aims, and only insofar as is necessary to achieve those aims. The Convention lists several permitted reasons for limiting free speech, including national security, the protection of health or morals, and protection of peoples' rights and reputations.

...

Free speech - Law and Government

 

[Valerie]

Facts and Jillian parted company some time ago.

The FACT remains, the man was rightfully fined and removed from the venue.

I'm not questioning that. I'm questioning how Jillian can't tell the difference between an Olympic Opening Ceremony and a Basketball Game. It's a competency related issue. I'm not that into sports, but I'm pretty confident I could tell the difference.

Oh really? You'd think a competent mind would immediately see that such a factoid would be totally beside the point...

 

[California Girl]

The FACT remains, the man was rightfully fined and removed from the venue.

I'm not questioning that. I'm questioning how Jillian can't tell the difference between an Olympic Opening Ceremony and a Basketball Game. It's a competency related issue. I'm not that into sports, but I'm pretty confident I could tell the difference.

Oh really? You'd think a competent mind would immediately see that such a factoid would be totally beside the point...

Beside the point? She didn't even know where it took place, yet alone manage a rational consideration of the issue. The nazi salute offends me, along with pretty much every decent being on the planet... does that mean we should shut them up? Personally, I'm not convinced. I'm not saying the fine etc was wrong... or right... I haven't decided what I think about it... but that's because I tend to think about an issue logically and with consideration rather than emotion.

 

[tigerbob]

Yea.

Good.

Fuck him.

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Whatever. Fuck him. Anyone that makes ape noises at blacks and gives nazi salutes is going to get no sympathy from me.

 

[California Girl]

Good.

Fuck him.

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Whatever. Fuck him. Anyone that makes ape noises at blacks and gives nazi salutes is going to get no sympathy from me.

I don't disagree... it's sickening... but there is a large part of me that says I'd rather these people were out in the open than hiding... they're far more dangerous when they're hiding.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Good.

Fuck him.

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Whatever. Fuck him. Anyone that makes ape noises at blacks and gives nazi salutes is going to get no sympathy from me.

That's ridiculous. You can't fine public discourse. By your fucked up logic, if I called you a monkey or said that the Nazis did some things right then you could fine me $4K. You're a loser if you believe that shit.

 

[Valerie]

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Whatever. Fuck him. Anyone that makes ape noises at blacks and gives nazi salutes is going to get no sympathy from me.

That's ridiculous. You can't fine public discourse. By your fucked up logic, if I called you a monkey or said that the Nazis did some things right then you could fine me $4K. You're a loser if you believe that shit.

Aww looky who's resorting to insults. tsk tsk tsk!

 

[tigerbob]

Yea.

Good.

Fuck him.

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Actually, let me amplify my response. Instead of just "Fuck him" let me add "Fuck you too". He made monkey noises. He made Nazi salutes. He pleaded guilty. And you're trying to find an excuse for him by saying he may have been using an English colloquialism and all the English people around him unfortunately misunderstood????

Your views on free speech are clearly very different to mine. I will defend to my dying breath any person's right to express disagreement on any subject whatsoever, including holding forth on why black people are inferior to whites, or whites are inferior to blacks, or whatever.

But making ape noises? Nazi salutes? Nah. Crosses a line. It's not even speech for chrissakes, much less free speech.

If you want to include that kind of thing under your "Free Speech" banner then you're trivializing what it really stands for, and thereby doing much more damage to the idea of free speech than I am.

 

[Swagger]

Hang on a second. How do we know he wasn't imitating a Roman salute? Besides, what's a "Nazi gesture"? The article's very vague on this.

 

[tigerbob]

Hang on a second. How do we know he wasn't imitating a Roman salute? Besides, what's a "Nazi gesture"? The article's very vague on this.

Interestingly enough, how do we know he wasn't making the old fashioned 'Olympic salute', which if I recall correctly was often mistaken for the nazi salute (difference I believe is that the olympic salute is to the side, the nazi one is in front)/

I may be wrong on that, but that's my recollection.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Good.

Fuck him.

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Actually, let me amplify my response. Instead of just "Fuck him" let me add "Fuck you too". He made monkey noises. He made Nazi salutes. He pleaded guilty. And you're trying to find an excuse for him by saying he may have been using an English colloquialism and all the English people around him unfortunately misunderstood????

Your views on free speech are clearly very different to mine. I will defend to my dying breath any person's right to express disagreement on any subject whatsoever, including holding forth on why black people are inferior to whites, or whites are inferior to blacks, or whatever.

But making ape noises? Nazi salutes? Nah. Crosses a line. It's not even speech for chrissakes, much less free speech.

If you want to include that kind of thing under your "Free Speech" banner then you're trivializing what it really stands for, and thereby doing much more damage to the idea of free speech than I am.

--I'm not looking for an excuse for his behavior you ass wanker. But I was discussing possible context that the law did not regard. For instance, calling someone a monkey is not automatically racist.

--Even if the guy is guilty of everything you think he's guilty of, my point is you have to be a tool to fine and punish free speech.

--You want to fine free speech. You don't deserve your free speech. If you think that someone has a right to tell you what you can and can't say then you just don't deserve it. If you want to take that right away from other people, then let's start with you.

--My grandpa was shot by a Nazi you asswipe. If anyone has a gripe against Nazi displays it's me. But I know that we didn't fight against people's rights of speech. We fought against murderous tyrants. That's all there fucking is to it.

--And no I'm not trivializing free speech. Free speech means you take the good with the bad. That's why it's called fucking free speech you dink. Otherwise it's called censored speech. That's not free speech dude.

 

[Swagger]

Another one bites the dust. Nadja Drygalla, 23, of the German rowing team has been sent home after it was revealed that her boyfriend belongs to a far-right group in Germany. See for yourselves.

This leaves a rather nasty taste in my mouth. Why aren't some of the competitors from the third world who have connections - however tenuous - to dictatorships back home being sent home? Or those who have family associated with far-left groups? In any case, which rule has this woman breached, exactly?

Care to comment, Jil & Val?

 

[freedombecki]

Apparently a Lithuanian fan said something that the Great Nazi Britain didn't like and he has $4K less (plus legal fees).

News from The Associated Press

 

[manifold]

didn't you already do a thread on this...

good for britain

Why do you hate free speech?

Do you even have to ask?

 

[manifold]

Thankfully this wouldn't happen here in the US where speech is still mostly free.

If I were a Brit I'd feel much shame about this.

 

[freedombecki]

Another one bites the dust. Nadja Drygalla, 23, of the German rowing team has been sent home after it was revealed that her boyfriend belongs to a far-right group in Germany. See for yourselves.

This leaves a rather nasty taste in my mouth. Why aren't some of the competitors from the third world who have connections - however tenuous - to dictatorships back home being sent home? Or those who have family associated with far-left groups? In any case, which rule has this woman breached, exactly?

Care to comment, Jil & Val?

I read the article. There were not enough details given about exactly what she was saying to make any kind of a reader comment. Neo-Nazi could be construed as bad by some if they are adamant holocaust deniers and call sufficient attention to their agendas. It would be inappropriate to use an athlete at the Olympics to proffer such causes, imho, but still, the article was vague at its worst and noncommittal at its best.

 

[tigerbob]

Not good. You may not like what he said, but if you have a government that punishes speech then you have an oppressive government. And in fact, you don't even know exactly what he said that was supposed to have been worth $4K.

He may have just said something like, "get that monkey" off his back b/c he was fouling and all of the sudden it's considered "racism" and worthy of draining his bank account.

The man that gives away his liberties to word police, does not deserve them. You bob, do not deserve your free speech. You have happily accepted your lot.

Actually, let me amplify my response. Instead of just "Fuck him" let me add "Fuck you too". He made monkey noises. He made Nazi salutes. He pleaded guilty. And you're trying to find an excuse for him by saying he may have been using an English colloquialism and all the English people around him unfortunately misunderstood????

Your views on free speech are clearly very different to mine. I will defend to my dying breath any person's right to express disagreement on any subject whatsoever, including holding forth on why black people are inferior to whites, or whites are inferior to blacks, or whatever.

But making ape noises? Nazi salutes? Nah. Crosses a line. It's not even speech for chrissakes, much less free speech.

If you want to include that kind of thing under your "Free Speech" banner then you're trivializing what it really stands for, and thereby doing much more damage to the idea of free speech than I am.

--I'm not looking for an excuse for his behavior you ass wanker. But I was discussing possible context that the law did not regard. For instance, calling someone a monkey is not automatically racist.

--Even if the guy is guilty of everything you think he's guilty of, my point is you have to be a tool to fine and punish free speech.

--You want to fine free speech. You don't deserve your free speech. If you think that someone has a right to tell you what you can and can't say then you just don't deserve it. If you want to take that right away from other people, then let's start with you.

--My grandpa was shot by a Nazi you asswipe. If anyone has a gripe against Nazi displays it's me. But I know that we didn't fight against people's rights of speech. We fought against murderous tyrants. That's all there fucking is to it.

--And no I'm not trivializing free speech. Free speech means you take the good with the bad. That's why it's called fucking free speech you dink. Otherwise it's called censored speech. That's not free speech dude.

I believe I've made it perfectly clear what my position regarding free speech is. In case you missed it, it's in the 2rd paragraph of my previous post. We clearly have different views about the definition of the word speech.

However, because I don't agree with you, you think I should have my right to it taken away. That's an interesting position you've got for yourself there. Agree with your position on the one hand....lose my right to free speech on the other. Hmmmm, something seems odd about that.

And it's also interesting that you choose to bring up what Britain fought for in WWII. If you could ask your grandfather whether he died to protect the rights of people to give Nazi salutes, I wonder what he would have said. I'm pretty sure I know what mine would have said.