Government's At It Again!!

[Navy1960]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….

c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

PC, here is a nice link to a study done at Cornell about the rising costs of college tuition. while yes it's true that the Federal Govt. has caused some of the problems but some might not be for what you may think. For example, you will find this in there,

First, the Justice Department’s breakup of the collective
agreement of several elite institutions to target their
financial aid to students with the greatest need has led to
the increased use of merit aid and more expensive financial
aid packages.Opportunity Grant (BEOG) has not
kept pace with inflation.
http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

It's a bit of several factors in my humble opinion not the least of which has to do with the current economic situation that most states are currently facing and combine that with what appears to be a little bit of meddling on the part of the Federal Govt. as well as some inflation issues and then you have your answer.

You you get a really good debate from me on the merits of an educated society and the need to do ALL we can to help that along, especially in today's world. Again, as we all have our own feelings on the matter, mine tend to go along the lines, that the more we invest in our young people and educate them the better off as a nation we will be. What comes to mind here are a couple of things, one is the fact that unemployment among those with degree's is generally much much lower than those without, the other is and this is the most important to me, that our young people need to stand in a world that is daily looking for ways to leap ahead, and one of the way's a lot of them do that is start by educating it's young in engineering, science, math, etc. to be able to build a future and I want my daughter as well as young Americans to have a bright future and investing in education is a darn good way to see to it they do. The problem to me at least is in how that money is applied.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….

c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

PC, here is a nice link to a study done at Cornell about the rising costs of college tuition. while yes it's true that the Federal Govt. has caused some of the problems but some might not be for what you may think. For example, you will find this in there,

First, the Justice Department’s breakup of the collective
agreement of several elite institutions to target their
financial aid to students with the greatest need has led to
the increased use of merit aid and more expensive financial
aid packages.Opportunity Grant (BEOG) has not
kept pace with inflation.
http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

It's a bit of several factors in my humble opinion not the least of which has to do with the current economic situation that most states are currently facing and combine that with what appears to be a little bit of meddling on the part of the Federal Govt. as well as some inflation issues and then you have your answer.

You you get a really good debate from me on the merits of an educated society and the need to do ALL we can to help that along, especially in today's world. Again, as we all have our own feelings on the matter, mine tend to go along the lines, that the more we invest in our young people and educate them the better off as a nation we will be. What comes to mind here are a couple of things, one is the fact that unemployment among those with degree's is generally much much lower than those without, the other is and this is the most important to me, that our young people need to stand in a world that is daily looking for ways to leap ahead, and one of the way's a lot of them do that is start by educating it's young in engineering, science, math, etc. to be able to build a future and I want my daughter as well as young Americans to have a bright future and investing in education is a darn good way to see to it they do. The problem to me at least is in how that money is applied.

"...an educated society and the need to do ALL we can to help that along, especially in today's world."

I look forward to your posts, Navy, and not only because you don' t shoot from the hip...you always are informed and have links....I'll get back to that link.

But I like that we often have (slight) disagrements. This may be a bit more...

I don't think that government should pay for anyone's education beyond state mandated ages....
...but if it does, it should only be based on merit...not on need. The way the people of St. Nevis paid to send Alexander Hamilton to study in New York.
The desire for an education should preceed the offer of funding....and on that basis there is night school, community colleges (which were formed for exactly this reason) and working one's way through school.

Society is pulled up from the top, not pushed up from the bottom.


"...I want my daughter as well as young Americans to have a bright future and investing in education..."
I as well.
Mine as little, and I saw those costs in the news....I don't know how we'll do it, but we will.
I have a feeling that both of us have given our children a leg up on real education already.

 

[Si modo]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….

c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

PC, here is a nice link to a study done at Cornell about the rising costs of college tuition. while yes it's true that the Federal Govt. has caused some of the problems but some might not be for what you may think. For example, you will find this in there,

First, the Justice Department’s breakup of the collective
agreement of several elite institutions to target their
financial aid to students with the greatest need has led to
the increased use of merit aid and more expensive financial
aid packages.Opportunity Grant (BEOG) has not
kept pace with inflation.
http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

It's a bit of several factors in my humble opinion not the least of which has to do with the current economic situation that most states are currently facing and combine that with what appears to be a little bit of meddling on the part of the Federal Govt. as well as some inflation issues and then you have your answer.

You you get a really good debate from me on the merits of an educated society and the need to do ALL we can to help that along, especially in today's world. Again, as we all have our own feelings on the matter, mine tend to go along the lines, that the more we invest in our young people and educate them the better off as a nation we will be. What comes to mind here are a couple of things, one is the fact that unemployment among those with degree's is generally much much lower than those without, the other is and this is the most important to me, that our young people need to stand in a world that is daily looking for ways to leap ahead, and one of the way's a lot of them do that is start by educating it's young in engineering, science, math, etc. to be able to build a future and I want my daughter as well as young Americans to have a bright future and investing in education is a darn good way to see to it they do. The problem to me at least is in how that money is applied.

And when everyone has that BS or BA, apply supply and demand to the job market.

I agree in part with what that link says, I disagree in part, as well. They have left out of consideration many factors.

Regardless, what I find despicable about higher education is the quality is far down. So, combine that with supply and demand and the global nature of the job market and there is little to wonder about wages.

 

[Navy1960]

Here's my thinking on the subject, during the 18th and 18th Century and prior to that time the need for an education for the public was mainly based on the needs ot the public. For example because our nation tended to be more based in agriculture rather, a higher education, beyond the 6th grade was really not needed as many young peolpe would simply follow in their parents footsteps and not venture far from home. As the nation progressed into the a more industrial society you saw the need for an increasinly educated public , and the move towards a high school education being the norm. As we are more and more part of an inter-connected, highly mobile, and a society that requires much more engineering level skills, rather than industrial type skills , the need to educate the public beyond a high school education becomes clear, if we as a nation intend to compete and leave a bright future for all the generations who will follow us. If you are an advocate for a strong Defense, think for a moment, would you rather have our young American kids the one's designing those weapons that keep them safe, or having to buy them from other nation because we are not capable of doing so, the same can be said for almost any industry. So yes, at least to me, investment in education, pays dividends that ALL of us benefit from. The best example of this , is the GI Bill, it helped people like Neil Armstrong get the education he needed aws well as 7 million more vets that helped this nation become the envy of the world at the end of WW2. Again, education is an investment worth the cost, and at least for me, I would rather my tax dollars go to help some young kid get a degree rather than some turtle cross a road.

 

[Si modo]

Here's my thinking on the subject, during the 18th and 18th Century and prior to that time the need for an education for the public was mainly based on the needs ot the public. For example because our nation tended to be more based in agriculture rather, a higher education, beyond the 6th grade was really not needed as many young peolpe would simply follow in their parents footsteps and not venture far from home. As the nation progressed into the a more industrial society you saw the need for an increasinly educated public , and the move towards a high school education being the norm. As we are more and more part of an inter-connected, highly mobile, and a society that requires much more engineering level skills, rather than industrial type skills , the need to educate the public beyond a high school education becomes clear, if we as a nation intend to compete and leave a bright future for all the generations who will follow us. If you are an advocate for a strong Defense, think for a moment, would you rather have our young American kids the one's designing those weapons that keep them safe, or having to buy them from other nation because we are not capable of doing so, the same can be said for almost any industry. So yes, at least to me, investment in education, pays dividends that ALL of us benefit from. The best example of this , is the GI Bill, it helped people like Neil Armstrong get the education he needed aws well as 7 million more vets that helped this nation become the envy of the world at the end of WW2. Again, education is an investment worth the cost, and at least for me, I would rather my tax dollars go to help some young kid get a degree rather than some turtle cross a road.

I agree. Everyone, and I mean everyone who is able to get a higher education should.

Unfortunately, that nasty bell curve indicates that a lot simply are not capable of doing so, at least with what a BS or BA used to be.

But, the believers in some socialist utopia made policy so that educational institutions would be influenced into taking more students in, students who had no chance at succeeding. So, policy makers give incentives to keep the students who shouldn't be there in the first place. Naturally, universities and colleges deflate grades and lower all standards, so the students stay.

What do we get? We have graduates who paid more for lower quality. And, we have graduates who have more competition for those jobs.

The bell curve distribution of intelligence is just a fact of life. It's not a value judgement of much of anything.

Anyway, I wish the best of luck to your daughter.

 

[Navy1960]

Here's my thinking on the subject, during the 18th and 18th Century and prior to that time the need for an education for the public was mainly based on the needs ot the public. For example because our nation tended to be more based in agriculture rather, a higher education, beyond the 6th grade was really not needed as many young peolpe would simply follow in their parents footsteps and not venture far from home. As the nation progressed into the a more industrial society you saw the need for an increasinly educated public , and the move towards a high school education being the norm. As we are more and more part of an inter-connected, highly mobile, and a society that requires much more engineering level skills, rather than industrial type skills , the need to educate the public beyond a high school education becomes clear, if we as a nation intend to compete and leave a bright future for all the generations who will follow us. If you are an advocate for a strong Defense, think for a moment, would you rather have our young American kids the one's designing those weapons that keep them safe, or having to buy them from other nation because we are not capable of doing so, the same can be said for almost any industry. So yes, at least to me, investment in education, pays dividends that ALL of us benefit from. The best example of this , is the GI Bill, it helped people like Neil Armstrong get the education he needed aws well as 7 million more vets that helped this nation become the envy of the world at the end of WW2. Again, education is an investment worth the cost, and at least for me, I would rather my tax dollars go to help some young kid get a degree rather than some turtle cross a road.

I agree. Everyone, and I mean everyone who is able to get a higher education should.

Unfortunately, that nasty bell curve indicates that a lot simply are not capable of doing so, at least with what a BS or BA used to be.

But, the believers in some socialist utopia made policy so that educational institutions would be influenced into taking more students in, students who had no chance at succeeding. So, policy makers give incentives to keep the students who shouldn't be there in the first place. Naturally, universities and colleges deflate grades and lower all standards, so the students stay.

What do we get? We have graduates who paid more for lower quality. And, we have graduates who have more competition for those jobs.

The bell curve distribution of intelligence is just a fact of life. It's not a value judgement of much of anything.

Anyway, I wish the best of luck to your daughter.

Thank you on that one, she's something else and I have doubt she will do well. You know you said something very interesting there, the fact that universities are taking less than qualified young people which is very true, and to me this is even more reason to invest in education from the bottom up. I'm not talking about feel good education like they have now, you know the kind, where they are more interested in making the kid feel good rather than teaching them the skills needed to excel in life, and to me at least a very large benefit of that is it makes our nation stronger and I'm all for that.

 

[Si modo]

Here's my thinking on the subject, during the 18th and 18th Century and prior to that time the need for an education for the public was mainly based on the needs ot the public. For example because our nation tended to be more based in agriculture rather, a higher education, beyond the 6th grade was really not needed as many young peolpe would simply follow in their parents footsteps and not venture far from home. As the nation progressed into the a more industrial society you saw the need for an increasinly educated public , and the move towards a high school education being the norm. As we are more and more part of an inter-connected, highly mobile, and a society that requires much more engineering level skills, rather than industrial type skills , the need to educate the public beyond a high school education becomes clear, if we as a nation intend to compete and leave a bright future for all the generations who will follow us. If you are an advocate for a strong Defense, think for a moment, would you rather have our young American kids the one's designing those weapons that keep them safe, or having to buy them from other nation because we are not capable of doing so, the same can be said for almost any industry. So yes, at least to me, investment in education, pays dividends that ALL of us benefit from. The best example of this , is the GI Bill, it helped people like Neil Armstrong get the education he needed aws well as 7 million more vets that helped this nation become the envy of the world at the end of WW2. Again, education is an investment worth the cost, and at least for me, I would rather my tax dollars go to help some young kid get a degree rather than some turtle cross a road.

I agree. Everyone, and I mean everyone who is able to get a higher education should.

Unfortunately, that nasty bell curve indicates that a lot simply are not capable of doing so, at least with what a BS or BA used to be.

But, the believers in some socialist utopia made policy so that educational institutions would be influenced into taking more students in, students who had no chance at succeeding. So, policy makers give incentives to keep the students who shouldn't be there in the first place. Naturally, universities and colleges deflate grades and lower all standards, so the students stay.

What do we get? We have graduates who paid more for lower quality. And, we have graduates who have more competition for those jobs.

The bell curve distribution of intelligence is just a fact of life. It's not a value judgement of much of anything.

Anyway, I wish the best of luck to your daughter.

Thank you on that one, she's something else and I have doubt she will do well. You know you said something very interesting there, the fact that universities are taking less than qualified young people which is very true, and to me this is even more reason to invest in education from the bottom up. I'm not talking about feel good education like they have now, you know the kind, where they are more interested in making the kid feel good rather than teaching them the skills needed to excel in life, and to me at least a very large benefit of that is it makes our nation stronger and I'm all for that.

Exactly.

Education has become more parenting than increasing knowledge.

The barrier to changing that is the Dept. of Ed. and the education 'major' racket. They create the need for an education major - a complete fucking major - in lieu of mastering subject matter. Without that 'major', your chances of getting a certificate to teach in public schools is close to nothing. And, most of the educational 'theories' are old theories recycled with new names to justify it being an entire major. Then add that a good portion of that 'major' involves teaching teachers how to parent.



Make teachers have a real major (no offense to any of our educators here - they almost all seem to have a great grasp of the ridiculousness of so much in education) and take a few courses for the cert.

Anyway, we need some sane reform of public education - bottom to top. With the Dept. of Ed. having its grimy fingers around so much, doing so is a monumental task.

 

[Navy1960]

I found this interesting as S. Korea tends to be at or near the top when it comes to education,

"South Korean universities, on the whole, are organized to support the cultural face game. Academic pass levels are not set at 50%, but at 60%, 70% or higher; (this grade creep is a worldwide phenomenon). What do these percentages calibrate? There's the rub. They do not measure knowledge mastery or competence in any sense. They are norm referenced, and the referencing itself is not to any credible sample size. It is to each individual class, no matter how abysmal that class standard is. The writer has now taught in South Korea and China for almost ten years, in six institutions, and during that time has rarely been permitted to officially make honest assessments of student achievements relative to real competence or what was taught. Rather, there have been instructions that no student shall receive less than a C+, or even a B. Sometimes the instructions are conveyed in writing; more often there is a workplace process of enculturation where it is made clear that failing students poses a risk to the future of the teacher
Education in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also found it interesting when reading that those nations near the top all started their young kids off with lessons in English, whioh would be akin to teaching our kids, Chinese at the grade school level. It does appear that some nations have grasped the concept that educating their young is good for the nation, something we used to know quite well.

 

[Si modo]

I found this interesting as S. Korea tends to be at or near the top when it comes to education,

"South Korean universities, on the whole, are organized to support the cultural face game. Academic pass levels are not set at 50%, but at 60%, 70% or higher; (this grade creep is a worldwide phenomenon). What do these percentages calibrate? There's the rub. They do not measure knowledge mastery or competence in any sense. They are norm referenced, and the referencing itself is not to any credible sample size. It is to each individual class, no matter how abysmal that class standard is. The writer has now taught in South Korea and China for almost ten years, in six institutions, and during that time has rarely been permitted to officially make honest assessments of student achievements relative to real competence or what was taught. Rather, there have been instructions that no student shall receive less than a C+, or even a B. Sometimes the instructions are conveyed in writing; more often there is a workplace process of enculturation where it is made clear that failing students poses a risk to the future of the teacher
Education in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also found it interesting when reading that those nations near the top all started their young kids off with lessons in English, whioh would be akin to teaching our kids, Chinese at the grade school level. It does appear that some nations have grasped the concept that educating their young is good for the nation, something we used to know quite well.

Although certainly not written anywhere, ask any professor who is still waiting for tenure how dangerous having large fail rates is to his/her tenure.

Especially when the administration is getting sweet bank in government grants to have a methodology to retain students. The grant proposals are fascinating to read - lots of verbosity and good-feeling rhetoric with no substance. They don't need that substance, though, because the obvious solution to increasing retention is grade deflation.

And, that is exactly what is done.

And, not only the students suffer with lower quality, society does. Social engineering at its worst.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

Of course. What program has the Federal Government EVER owned, in which it was proven to be more financially efficient than that of the private sector? The Left can't name one. Even the US Postal Service is having financial difficulties. Massachusettes Health Care, likewise has accrued more debt than the national average.

c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

Already looking to happen again:
EDITORIAL: Occupying your mortgage - Washington Times

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….

c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

PC, here is a nice link to a study done at Cornell about the rising costs of college tuition. while yes it's true that the Federal Govt. has caused some of the problems but some might not be for what you may think. For example, you will find this in there,

First, the Justice Department’s breakup of the collective
agreement of several elite institutions to target their
financial aid to students with the greatest need has led to
the increased use of merit aid and more expensive financial
aid packages.Opportunity Grant (BEOG) has not
kept pace with inflation.
http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

It's a bit of several factors in my humble opinion not the least of which has to do with the current economic situation that most states are currently facing and combine that with what appears to be a little bit of meddling on the part of the Federal Govt. as well as some inflation issues and then you have your answer.

You you get a really good debate from me on the merits of an educated society and the need to do ALL we can to help that along, especially in today's world. Again, as we all have our own feelings on the matter, mine tend to go along the lines, that the more we invest in our young people and educate them the better off as a nation we will be. What comes to mind here are a couple of things, one is the fact that unemployment among those with degree's is generally much much lower than those without, the other is and this is the most important to me, that our young people need to stand in a world that is daily looking for ways to leap ahead, and one of the way's a lot of them do that is start by educating it's young in engineering, science, math, etc. to be able to build a future and I want my daughter as well as young Americans to have a bright future and investing in education is a darn good way to see to it they do. The problem to me at least is in how that money is applied.

1. Interesting article. And I can't disagree with the point about the value of choosing the most selective college one can.....
...doors open that wouldn't otherwise.
But I'm not convinced that Ivy graduation actually speaks to education. I find I do more study and reading since graduation than I did before!

2. But I'm going to guess that most students don't attend the Ivy's ....so the import of Ehrenberg's study is somewhat limited.

3. If you have the time, I just posted an OP on an alternative to college loans...

4. I saw your post on S. Korea....'at's my peeps!

5. And, you note the DOJ....did you know that the Obama DOJ sued colleges that use the Kindle "or any other dedicated electronic book reader, unless the devices are fully accessible to students who are blind and have low vision." DOJ, schools settle over Kindle's blind access | Crave - CNET
Wait 'til they hear that some schools actually use BOOKS!

 

[Navy1960]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….

c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

PC, here is a nice link to a study done at Cornell about the rising costs of college tuition. while yes it's true that the Federal Govt. has caused some of the problems but some might not be for what you may think. For example, you will find this in there,

First, the Justice Department’s breakup of the collective
agreement of several elite institutions to target their
financial aid to students with the greatest need has led to
the increased use of merit aid and more expensive financial
aid packages.Opportunity Grant (BEOG) has not
kept pace with inflation.
http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

It's a bit of several factors in my humble opinion not the least of which has to do with the current economic situation that most states are currently facing and combine that with what appears to be a little bit of meddling on the part of the Federal Govt. as well as some inflation issues and then you have your answer.

You you get a really good debate from me on the merits of an educated society and the need to do ALL we can to help that along, especially in today's world. Again, as we all have our own feelings on the matter, mine tend to go along the lines, that the more we invest in our young people and educate them the better off as a nation we will be. What comes to mind here are a couple of things, one is the fact that unemployment among those with degree's is generally much much lower than those without, the other is and this is the most important to me, that our young people need to stand in a world that is daily looking for ways to leap ahead, and one of the way's a lot of them do that is start by educating it's young in engineering, science, math, etc. to be able to build a future and I want my daughter as well as young Americans to have a bright future and investing in education is a darn good way to see to it they do. The problem to me at least is in how that money is applied.

1. Interesting article. And I can't disagree with the point about the value of choosing the most selective college one can.....
...doors open that wouldn't otherwise.
But I'm not convinced that Ivy graduation actually speaks to education. I find I do more study and reading since graduation than I did before!

2. But I'm going to guess that most students don't attend the Ivy's ....so the import of Ehrenberg's study is somewhat limited.

3. If you have the time, I just posted an OP on an alternative to college loans...

4. I saw your post on S. Korea....'at's my peeps!

5. And, you note the DOJ....did you know that the Obama DOJ sued colleges that use the Kindle "or any other dedicated electronic book reader, unless the devices are fully accessible to students who are blind and have low vision." DOJ, schools settle over Kindle's blind access | Crave - CNET
Wait 'til they hear that some schools actually use BOOKS!

Well on the "kindle" I do now, *lol*, PC, let me tell you when it comes to investment on things like the "kindle" , "ipad" , etc. anyone of these tools I believe are wonderful investments in the future of this nation. What strikes me most about S.Korea and Finland who are at the top of the list in Education is they both recognize that education is a source of national importance. In Finland for example when a student finishes what we would call "high school" here they are given the chocie between a Polytechnic school or a traditional University. In both nations cases they have a strong focus on math and science that is student centered. Let me put it in simple terms, if it took 10 less F-35's JSF's to educate 10,000 young people in math and science to me at least thats an investment worth making for the long term future of our nation. I still believe that there is little that cannot be solved if the right solutions are applied and to me at least, funding, is not a solution its just tool in the tool box. While , yes funding is important, if you do not take the time to really focus on where you want to go, then you can throw all the money you want to at, it won't get off the ground. Good case in point just about every failed DOD program from the Comanche Helicopter, to the DD(x) Destroyer.

 

[techieny]

well you certainly shut TM down, Excellent!

 

[toxicmedia]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….
c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

Pchick....using the link you provided...I wasn't able to confirm where your source is claiming that gov't loan programs are the proximal cause of college cost increases....

Where was that in the USA today article or in the College Board material ?

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….
c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

Pchick....using the link you provided...I wasn't able to confirm where your source is claiming that gov't loan programs are the proximal cause of college cost increases....

Where was that in the USA today article or in the College Board material ?

The link follows and refers to that which is in quotation marks prior to same.

The cause of the dramatic increases is my conclusion.
Why...do you disagree?

 

[toxicmedia]

1. President Reagan famously said The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
When will supporters of progressive politicians realize this?

2. Hand-wringing and roiling that government and media caused over increases in healthcare costs are based on this kind of analysis: “There is general agreement that the current 6% annual increase in health care costs is disastrous and unsustainable; it is projected to lead to a doubling of costs in a decade or so and insolvency for the Medicare program in 8 years. There seems to be some agreement that the long-term goal should be annual growth paralleling that of the gross domestic product (GDP), about 3% per year.” MMS: Error

3. But, just today,from USAToday: “Tuition and fees at America's public colleges rose more than 8% this year as a weakened economy and severe cuts in state funding took their toll, a report out today says. Public four-year universities charged residents an average of $8,244, up 8.3% from last year, while public two-year schools charged an average of $2,963, up 8.7%, says the report by the non-profit College Board. About 80% of the nation's undergraduates attend public institutions.” Tuition and fees rise more than 8% at U.S. public colleges

4. The pattern for which I’d like to connect the dots is that attempts by big government to solve problems often makes the problems bigger, and worse than the original.

a. Anyone familiar with the economic details of ObamaCare knows that costs for healthcare will rise dramatically.

b. government loan programs are the proximal cause of the college cost increases above….
c. government pressure on banks to give loans to less than eligible borrowers caused the mortgage meltdown.

5. The solution:

a. government should be restrained from any endeavors beyond the enumerated powers in the Constitution.

b. government out of the free market beyond oversight to prevent illegalities; no government educational loans; no Freddie nor Fannie; no ObamaCare.

c. vote out all progressives

Pchick....using the link you provided...I wasn't able to confirm where your source is claiming that gov't loan programs are the proximal cause of college cost increases....

Where was that in the USA today article or in the College Board material ?

The link follows and refers to that which is in quotation marks prior to same.

The cause of the dramatic increases is my conclusion.
Why...do you disagree?

I'm not at the agree/dissagree point yet...I was just researching it. Thanks.....Then I got distracted by this phone call I got at this job that I'm grateful to have

 

[flacaltenn]

deregulation caused this mess you fools.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs]Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis - YouTube[/ame]

Look at all those Democrats against regulation!

So? Deregulation was the problem. Doesn't matter which party did or didn't support it.

It is so nice though to see all these 'free market' conservatives acknowledging the absolutely vital need for strict regulation of financial institutions.

Quite ironic isn't it?

Not so fast.. We're not talking about regulating for the sake of restraining unprincipled CAPITALISTS run amok here. We're talking about regulating A GOVT SPONSORED ENTERPRISE that is governed by crony political appointees and back by full faith and credit.

THAT'S WHY the Repubs were watching the store. While the Dems kept sending the regulators home....

Not ironic if you really get the picture...

 

[flacaltenn]

Yup...

Proximate cause of College tuition increases?? Demand of course. Hawking more loans drives demand up. But attached to that fact is the observation that parents push kids into WAAAY overleveraged loans for Prestige schools just for bragging rights, rather than being wise consumers. So as long as pricey schools have long waiting lists of BA victims to con, ALL colleges will go along with the increases.

Save the money for Graduate work at the pricey places.. Undergrads are barcoded units to major Univ..

 

[toxicmedia]

Yup...

Proximate cause of College tuition increases?? Demand of course. Hawking more loans drives demand up. But attached to that fact is the observation that parents push kids into WAAAY overleveraged loans for Prestige schools just for bragging rights, rather than being wise consumers. So as long as pricey schools have long waiting lists of BA victims to con, ALL colleges will go along with the increases.

Save the money for Graduate work at the pricey places.. Undergrads are barcoded units to major Univ..

You're so right about spending more money for a really great graduate school. They won't even care where your undergad work was done after that.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

So? Deregulation was the problem. Doesn't matter which party did or didn't support it.

It is so nice though to see all these 'free market' conservatives acknowledging the absolutely vital need for strict regulation of financial institutions.

Quite ironic isn't it?

Is it really a matter of strict regulation, or banks being allowed to apply some basic "common sense" without government intrusion?

The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) forces banks to make loans in poor communities, loans that banks may otherwise reject as financially unsound.

According to one enforcement agency, "discrimination exists when a lender's underwriting policies contain arbitrary or outdated criteria that effectively disqualify many urban or lower-income minority applicants." Note that these "arbitrary or outdated criteria" include most of the essentials of responsible lending: income level, income verification, credit history and savings history--the very factors lenders are now being criticized for ignoring.

The government has promoted bad loans not just through the stick of the CRA but through the carrot of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which purchase, securitize and guarantee loans made by lenders and whose debt is itself implicitly guaranteed by the federal government.

The Government Did It - Forbes.com

"Our job," says Marks, "is to push the envelope." Accordingly, he gladly lends to people with less than $3,000 in savings, or with checkered credit histories or significant debt.

. . . society must adjust its rules for them. Hence, NACA's most crucial policy decision: it requires no down payments whatsoever from its borrowers. A down-payment requirement, based on concern as to whether a borrower can make payments, is—when applied to low-income minority buyers—"patronizing and almost racist," Marks says.

The Trillion-Dollar Bank Shakedown That Bodes Ill for Cities by Howard Husock, City Journal Winter 2000