Government Healthcare Disaster in UK

[Ame®icano]

I sure hope that UN officials are going to Costa Rica, Cuba or Singapore for their health problems.

 

[The T]

I sure hope that UN officials are going to Costa Rica, Cuba or Singapore for their health problems.

Bravo! Anyone with any good sense knows they stay here to get it done.

 

[rightwinger]

Someone fisked the heck out of this a while ago. The numbers just don't jibe with reality.

Actual quality of care was only one of the measures. That is, you go in, see a doctor who fixes your problem, and go home. And it was weighted very low.

equality of care for all persons, even if the quality itself was pathetic, as is the case in Cuba, was valued higher. So if your health care system didn't do squat for anyone, but everyone suffered pretty much the same way, it gave you a higher ranking than if some folks got very well, some folks did pretty good, some folks did alright, and a small minority got the crumbs off the table, even if the ones who got the crumbs off the table got better care than anybody in the more equal society.

As the saying goes, figures don't like, but liars figure.

Wow, you base your belief on something that someone said awhile ago?

No of course not. In the UN system two countries equal in everything but one has socialist medicine- is weighted in their favor and they get a higher rating.

Makes sense to me, everyone knows the Cuban system is better than ours

It goes beyond whether you have a socialist system. It looks at measurable factors like life expectancy and infant mortality....both of which the US has abysmal rankings.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Wow, you base your belief on something that someone said awhile ago?

No of course not. In the UN system two countries equal in everything but one has socialist medicine- is weighted in their favor and they get a higher rating.

Makes sense to me, everyone knows the Cuban system is better than ours

It goes beyond whether you have a socialist system. It looks at measurable factors like life expectancy and infant mortality....both of which the US has abysmal rankings.

Thanks for reminding me

In those stats as well as being self reported, the US counts
premature deaths in their infant mortality rate. Other countries don't or they count them as miscarriages only. So, in other countries premature deaths don't factor in their rates at all.

So, all of the hand-wringing over this statistic is useless, because it is really a difference in terminology, and nothing more (plus, the UN stats being useless as a true measure of any value)


The left should keep using the "denture story" from the health summit by Rep Slaughter (NY) the woman who couldn’t afford her own dentures, and so had to use a second-hand set from her deceased sister.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJByadebXY[/ame]

Papa Obama care won't cover dental anyway
However, it is a better, fake and entertaining tale for the liberals to use in trying to get their boondoggle passed

 

[Ame®icano]

I sure hope that UN officials are going to Costa Rica, Cuba or Singapore for their health problems.

Bravo! Anyone with any good sense knows they stay here to get it done.

I don't hear them complaining about the cost neither.

 

[rightwinger]

No of course not. In the UN system two countries equal in everything but one has socialist medicine- is weighted in their favor and they get a higher rating.

Makes sense to me, everyone knows the Cuban system is better than ours

It goes beyond whether you have a socialist system. It looks at measurable factors like life expectancy and infant mortality....both of which the US has abysmal rankings.

Thanks for reminding me

In those stats as well as being self reported, the US counts
premature deaths in their infant mortality rate. Other countries don't or they count them as miscarriages only. So, in other countries premature deaths don't factor in their rates at all.

So, all of the hand-wringing over this statistic is useless, because it is really a difference in terminology, and nothing more (plus, the UN stats being useless as a true measure of any value)

However, it is a better, fake and entertaining tale for the liberals to use in trying to get their boondoggle passed

Have any facts to back up your rant?


Health Care Statistics in the United States

-The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
-Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
Life Expectancy
-Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

With horific life expectancies, infant mortalities and low availability of healthcare it is surprising we finished 37th

 

[Meister]

It goes beyond whether you have a socialist system. It looks at measurable factors like life expectancy and infant mortality....both of which the US has abysmal rankings.

Thanks for reminding me

In those stats as well as being self reported, the US counts
premature deaths in their infant mortality rate. Other countries don't or they count them as miscarriages only. So, in other countries premature deaths don't factor in their rates at all.

So, all of the hand-wringing over this statistic is useless, because it is really a difference in terminology, and nothing more (plus, the UN stats being useless as a true measure of any value)

However, it is a better, fake and entertaining tale for the liberals to use in trying to get their boondoggle passed

Have any facts to back up your rant?


Health Care Statistics in the United States

-The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
-Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
Life Expectancy
-Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

With horific life expectancies, infant mortalities and low availability of healthcare it is surprising we finished 37th

Why do you always use a ultra bias source, leftwinger?
PLEASE, show us a source that uses the same criteria for all the countries being monitored, not different strokes for different folks.
Until you can do that, all of your information is no more than just bunk, dude.

 

[rightwinger]

Thanks for reminding me

In those stats as well as being self reported, the US counts
premature deaths in their infant mortality rate. Other countries don't or they count them as miscarriages only. So, in other countries premature deaths don't factor in their rates at all.

So, all of the hand-wringing over this statistic is useless, because it is really a difference in terminology, and nothing more (plus, the UN stats being useless as a true measure of any value)

However, it is a better, fake and entertaining tale for the liberals to use in trying to get their boondoggle passed

Have any facts to back up your rant?


Health Care Statistics in the United States

-The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
-Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
Life Expectancy
-Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

With horific life expectancies, infant mortalities and low availability of healthcare it is surprising we finished 37th

Why do you always use a ultra bias source, leftwinger?
PLEASE, show us a source that uses the same criteria for all the countries being monitored, not different strokes for different folks.
Until you can do that, all of your information is no more than just bunk, dude.

Show me a link that show different criteria are being used. Just because you do not like the results does not disprove them.
Show another study that you feel is unbiased

Your rants do not prove anything....post facts

 

[Neotrotsky]

Thanks for reminding me

In those stats as well as being self reported, the US counts
premature deaths in their infant mortality rate. Other countries don't or they count them as miscarriages only. So, in other countries premature deaths don't factor in their rates at all.

So, all of the hand-wringing over this statistic is useless, because it is really a difference in terminology, and nothing more (plus, the UN stats being useless as a true measure of any value)

However, it is a better, fake and entertaining tale for the liberals to use in trying to get their boondoggle passed

Have any facts to back up your rant?


Health Care Statistics in the United States

-The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
-Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
Life Expectancy
-Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

With horific life expectancies, infant mortalities and low availability of healthcare it is surprising we finished 37th

Why do you always use a ultra bias source, leftwinger?
PLEASE, show us a source that uses the same criteria for all the countries being monitored, not different strokes for different folks.
Until you can do that, all of your information is no more than just bunk, dude.

Plus the CIA factbook use the UN stats as well
Maybe he thinks the CIA is collecting all the data themselves

It is just the same failed argument packed a new way- like Hope and Change

Of course, he might be saying if the CIA uses it then it must be true

Wait, Pelosi says they lie all the time to her

Funny how that works

 

[Neotrotsky]

Have any facts to back up your rant?


Health Care Statistics in the United States

-The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
-Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
Life Expectancy
-Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

With horific life expectancies, infant mortalities and low availability of healthcare it is surprising we finished 37th

Why do you always use a ultra bias source, leftwinger?
PLEASE, show us a source that uses the same criteria for all the countries being monitored, not different strokes for different folks.
Until you can do that, all of your information is no more than just bunk, dude.

Show me a link that show different criteria are being used. Just because you do not like the results does not disprove them.
Show another study that you feel is unbiased

Your rants do not prove anything....post facts

Rants- liberals are too sensitive

Do you think the majority of Americans are happy with their health care means anything
or are you of the liberal mind set that people are too stupid to know what is good for them?
As some have argued on your side

or like Klein Too Dumb to Thrive


So the majority of Americans don't want Papa Obama care -they must be all stupid bastards!

(liberals are such elitists)

Again, the lefts needs some new stories and fake facts because the old ones have not seemed to have worked on the American people- like global warming er,,, climate change



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We already posted:


10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care

Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).

Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.

More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).

Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."[5]

 

[rightwinger]

Nice try...but none of your facts relate to infant mortality or life expectancy

Nice data on the Canadians....what about the other 35 countries that rank better than us?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Nice try...but none of your facts relate to infant mortality or life expectancy

Nice data on the Canadians....what about the other 35 countries that rank better than us?

Based on the biased; flawed; self-reported data from countries like Cuba?

I told you I agree. If Cuba says they have a good system then I believe it

Just like the USSR use to report to the UN

 

[Political Junky]

I sure hope that UN officials are going to Costa Rica, Cuba or Singapore for their health problems.

Bravo! Anyone with any good sense knows they stay here to get it done.

I don't hear them complaining about the cost neither.

Because they're rich.

 

[Political Junky]

It's NOT the availability... but because the WHO and the ones like you think it is not just to be available but owed to you at the expense of someone else.. instead of being your personal responsibility for your own personal well being (or the payment of it)

Ever been really sick?
Ever been in intense pain?
Ever had to choose between your medications or your mortgage?
Ever had to take a job for the sole reason that it provides healthcare?

Millions of Americans do

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Nope, as I paid for my medical coverage
4) Nope but actually would if I had to rather than thinking my personal responsibilities and the payment of them was owed by someone else

Does not take away from the fact that the WHO rankings, and your assertion, try and shine a negative light on the most advanced and available health care in the world... nor from the fact that you and ONLY YOU are responsible for your personal responsibilities, your personal well being, and the payment of your personal wants and needs... nor does it take away from the fact that he concept of freedom comes with both positives AND negatives inherent to that freedom

Socialism would be that the government owns hospitals and doctors work for the government.
What is being proposed here, as in most of Europe, doctors and hospitals are private enterprises. The government acts as an insurance company, writing checks, only with a fraction of the overhead.
This really puts those who rely on wingnut talking points on the defensive.

 

[Political Junky]

"An independent inquiry found that managers at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust stopped providing safe care because they were preoccupied with government targets and cutting costs. "


Stafford Hospital caused ‘unimaginable suffering’ - Times Online



Woooohoooo... we want govt healthcare too!!!!!

Idiot liberals.

What everyone forgets is Canada has a population of 30 million, we have a population of 300 million, it does not work well up there, I can guarantee you it won't work well down here. Less is easier to manage and they can't manage their system well, you can only imagine what would happen here with a similar system. Disaster from the get-go.

Population has nothing to do with it. It's a per capita thing.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
John Kenneth Galbraith

 

[Ame®icano]

Bravo! Anyone with any good sense knows they stay here to get it done.

I don't hear them complaining about the cost neither.

Because they're rich.

Not cause they're rich. It's because they are not paying for it out of their pockets.

 

[Meister]

Have any facts to back up your rant?


Health Care Statistics in the United States

-The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
-Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
Life Expectancy
-Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

With horific life expectancies, infant mortalities and low availability of healthcare it is surprising we finished 37th

Why do you always use a ultra bias source, leftwinger?
PLEASE, show us a source that uses the same criteria for all the countries being monitored, not different strokes for different folks.
Until you can do that, all of your information is no more than just bunk, dude.

Show me a link that show different criteria are being used. Just because you do not like the results does not disprove them.
Show another study that you feel is unbiased

Your rants do not prove anything....post facts

Reread this thread, because it has been posted to you. But, try to read with some comprehension this time. I'm not going to do all the work for your lazy ass.

 

[Political Junky]

I'm not a GOP supporter, but one just needs to looks at any poll about the subject as they choose. On just needs to look at the early elections, Americans have spoken. This isn't the bill that the dems should hang their hat on.....even if it is just a foot in the door. The cost only goes up from there, and the people know it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think this bill is great, but when I think about the entire process, from beginning to end (even before there was a a bill) it just seems to me that the GOP was willing to do anything to not get a bill. That's what I meant be seemingly expecting that have 41% control entitled them to having it their way.

I agree, GOP will do anything not to pass THIS bill. Can we blame them for it if you said yourself that bill is not great. However, Liberals had 60 needed votes to pass that bill as is, and they haven't. Why not? Maybe because they don't agree in between themselves that bill is that good. And if true, why to blame GOP for not passing it, especially when GOP votes were irrelevant.

The Blue Dogs are on the take from the insurance companies, just as 100% of republicans are.
Therefore, Democrats don't have 59 votes. I hope you already knew that.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I don't hear them complaining about the cost neither.

Because they're rich.

Not cause they're rich. It's because they are not paying for it out of their pockets.

He forgets it is because they are politicians as well.

Contrary to the stated claims of the left, does anyway believe the President is going to have the same medical as the people?

He won't even allow poor minorities to go to the same school as his kids by taking away their school vouchers

 

[rightwinger]

Nice try...but none of your facts relate to infant mortality or life expectancy

Nice data on the Canadians....what about the other 35 countries that rank better than us?

Based on the biased; flawed; self-reported data from countries like Cuba?

I told you I agree. If Cuba says they have a good system then I believe it

Just like the USSR use to report to the UN

Oh I get your point now....

All thirty six nations that rank higher than us are lying